looking to improve the ignition.

[rmoe88]

I was looking into upgrading the ignition on my daily driver falcon. Right now it has a stock distributor (non load-o-matic) with a pertronix ignition inside and a stock coil. Most of the ignition system has been replaced within the last year. Because of this, i am having the "im replacing new and perfectly working parts" feeling when i look into a duraspart system. So i wanted to ask, would getting an MSD (or similar off-brand) multispark ignition box for use with the stock parts give me comparable results to the duraspark system? I dont have much experience with ignitions, so sorry if this is a stupid question i dont know any better

 

[bigcatchdaniel555]

Points can only handle so many volts before they fry. The duraspark ignition takes a full 12 volts and really wakes up with an aftermarket box. The msd will help the points but it will still only be 6 volts.
Dan

 

[fordconvert]

The petronix will let you go with one of the 'performance' coils if you want to. I think theirs is called a flamethrower but anything should work. I have had good luck with the MSD blasters. I hear good things about the TFI's that can be had cheap in the junkyards but those take some custom mounts and connectors. Something like the MSD multispark box is up to you. I have one on my boat and it does seem to make a slight difference, not sure if it was worth the money. They work with pretty much any distributor and recommend one of their performance coils. I ran mine for a few weeks on the stock one and it didnt seem to run hot or anything and I didnt notice any real change when I went to the blaster one. Playing with the timing curve should get you some better performance. Most lower rpm engines (stockish) seem to do well with more base and more mechanical advance all in sooner than from the factory. This usually results in pinging during steady cruise so you will need to limit the travel of the vacuum advance. At some point you are going to want to go to a duraspark so you can do timing control with the MS. The duraspark pickup coil will then be your tach signal to the MS and then MS2 V3.x can either drive a coil (or msd box) direct or you can use one of the late model modules (gm or ford) driven by MS to drive the coil. I am picking up my MS car today from winter storage. First project is to switch over to timing control. THe fuel control is so cool I cant wait to add the timing.

 

[BUZZ]

If your really intrested in a cd box take a look at these http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch ... toview=sku I bought the one with a rev limiter but the other is just as good. The only real difference between these and a MSD is that these are digital and a MSD is analog. This is the coil I used http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... SUM-850500 but you can use just about any coil with these boxes. Also Advanced Auto sells their ds2 distributers for about $53.00 if you want to go that way. It made a big improvement in my car.

 

[havoline]

what about D.U.I. system? I have been interested in getting one along with livewires. Besides it costing more than duraspark are there any short comings from anyones experience because I have seen the results on the classic inlines website.

On a private note I work at the airport and most of our equipment uses mid 70s ford inline 6 engines and a few run horrible from lack of tuning and maintenance from our lovely mechanic. They use duraspark and from what some people say to go to a junk yard to get the parts, I am not sure I would want to do that from what I have seen from. Again my opinion and just a private note.

 

[rbohm]

8) you have a few ways to go with ignition;

1: the DUI ignition that classicinlines sells. i very good ignition system, and not a bad price considering you get a complete ignition system as well as a new distributor.

2: you can find a duraspark dist, ignition box, and wiring harness. not a bad way to go either, but tracking down some of the parts and wiring the system can be a bit tedious.

3: you can go the route i took and find a durasparck dist, and wire it to a chrysler ignition box, and use a blaster lll coil. it makes for a good ignition, but oyu have the same wiring issues that the duraspark system does.

4: you can keep your pertronix ignition and install a blaster lll coil.

 

[JackFish]

On a private note I work at the airport and most of our equipment uses mid 70s ford inline 6 engines and a few run horrible from lack of tuning and maintenance from our lovely mechanic. They use duraspark and from what some people say to go to a junk yard to get the parts, I am not sure I would want to do that from what I have seen from. Again my opinion and just a private note.

There aren't too may moving parts on the system to wear out, except for the gear, and I would rebuild a sloppy junkyard dizzy, just for fun.
But the electronics hold up pretty well, I still have the original ECU on my '78 Fairmont. 30 years old.
And ebay has all this stuff too, good deals can be had that will beat your local parts store. The wiring and connectors can be had at the yards but can also be fabbed up pretty easily.

 

[page62]

4: you can keep your pertronix ignition and install a blaster lll coil.

This is probably the most sensible choice. It'll give you a smoother idle and give plenty of spark all the way to the redline. The MSD box is only going to make a meaningful difference at very high revs...a place our engines don't really go.

 

[peeeot]

I don't mean to hijack this thread, so let me know if I should make this a new topic, but what benefits exactly are we looking for when we upgrade the ignition system beyond stock? The one I hear consistently is improved idle quality, and I can also understand how changing advance curves can affect performance, but what does strengthening the spark do for you?

 

[ludwig]

what benefits exactly are we looking for when we upgrade the ignition system beyond stock?

Much quicker starts, smooth idle, more complete combustion with a larger and more dependable spark, better fuel economy since more fuel is burned with each power stroke, no wear or readjustment needed of a mechanical ignition.

 

[Lazy JW]

Points can only handle so many volts before they fry. The duraspark ignition takes a full 12 volts and really wakes up with an aftermarket box. The msd will help the points but it will still only be 6 volts.
Dan

You can run the MSD ignition using the original breaker points. When done this way the points only carry a miniscule amount of current so they will last practically forever. The MSD box carries the heavy current at 12 volts so the points only have to act as a trigger.

You can do a similar upgrade for cheap using a TFI module and coil from the junkyard; the points trigger the module which then fires the coil. Check out www.gofastforless.com for details. I helped a friend do this one on a mid-60's Ford pickup, works great.
Joe

 

[mceachrw]

have you considered EDIS controlled by megasquirt? i can't remember where i read it, but you may be able to trigger it with the pertronix (or points) instead of the vr sensor described in the link below.

http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/EDIS.htm
http://www.diyautotune.com/tech_articles/megasquirt_ignition_control.htm

 

[rmoe88]

Thanks for all the input.

Im still thinking about what i am going to do in the long term, but it looks like every option would benefit from an aftermarket coil anyways so i think i will get that first.

After looking at all of the different coils on summitracing.com i was wondering about the differences in coils, so i googled it and found this nice article Hotrod ignition coil artical

After reading it, i thought i would go with a pertronix coil since i am running their Ignitor points eliminator and that their coil would be designed around that. I looked and found two identical coils with different "primary resistance" from pertronix. So i looked around on the pertronix website and saw a paragraph on measuring resistance on your stock coil to check to see if it was compatible with their "ignitor."

What type of coil can I use with the Ignitorâ„¢? How do I check my coils resistance? (12V negative ground only)
To determine if your systems coil is compatible with the Ignitor, some measurements should be taken prior to installation of the Ignitor. Caution… While performing this test, never leave the ignition switch on for more than 30 seconds at a time.

Set your voltmeter to a 15 or 20-volt scale. Attach an 18 or 20 AWG jumper wire from the negative coil terminal to an engine ground. Attach positive (red) lead of your voltmeter to the positive side of the coil, and the negative (black) lead to an engine ground. Turn the ignition switch to the run position. Now read the voltage at the positive coil terminal. Turn the ignition switch off. If the voltage measured is approximately 12 volts, no resistance wire is present. A typical resistance wire will provide 9 - 6 volts.

The next step is to determine the resistance in the primary ignition. Label the wires attached to the coil terminals and note their appropriate location. Make sure that the ignition switch is off and disconnect all wires from the coil. Adjust your meter to the lowest ohm scale. If you are using an analog style meter make sure to zero the needle.

Measure from the negative terminal to the positive terminal. Write your measurement down.

Now the maximum system amperage can be determined, divide your voltage measurement by your coil resistance measurement. This will give you the system current or amperage.

Four cylinder engines should not exceed 4 amps. Six and eight cylinder engines should not exceed 8.5 amps. If the total amperage in your system is higher than the amount recommended for your application, you should install a ballast resistor.

Example
Voltage 12
Resistance 1.5
12 / 1.5 = 8
Total amperage 8

I have the stock resistor wire on my ignition. The lowest primary ohm coil pertronix makes is a 1.5ohm coil. Using their example above, i could have 12volts with the 1.5 ohm coil for use with their ignitor. So i wanted to ask, what purpose does the resistor wire have? Was it only to limit the amperage the stock points saw so they didnt burn up? Could i remove it if i was to use their 1.5ohm coil?

 

[Lazy JW]

...So i wanted to ask, what purpose does the resistor wire have? Was it only to limit the amperage the stock points saw so they didnt burn up? Could i remove it if i was to use their 1.5ohm coil?

Yes and yes.
Joe