Need specs for springs on Xflow head.

[mike1157]

Still waiting on the cam to arrive, I called Dean Tigue to confirm whether or not he could give me a tracking number. While I had him on the phone, I asked if he remembered to include a spring recommendation ( he didn't).
Since this isn't a stock US application, American spring MFG's want information from me that I can't give them. I have no Idea of what spring rate I'm looking for, the potential spring height, the seat pressure, or the open pressure. All I know is that the spring seat measures 1.450, it's a mech roller cam w/ .558 I lift/.536 E lift. I know that the cam should make power through 6,000 RPM, and I'll attempt to shift it at 5500.
I've been trying for a week each day for 20 minutes holding trying to get through to Comp, and finally lost my s hit today and b itched the operator out for being part of a company that never answers it's phone. I got transferred to the dept MGR who could tell me nothing either. I cannot believe that a spring application cannot be recommended based on what's known.

 

[CNC-Dude]

Comp isn't on my list either anymore. Call Isky or Crower. But get your valve job done first so you can confirm your minimum spring height as a baseline. It may be that you have to enlarge the spring pocket to something more US friendly like 1.550" or something to get a compatible spring selection. You might also need to use spring cups also, so take baby steps and don't get ahead of yourself.

 

[xctasy]

Your dealing with the counter wally issue of something that isn'nt a cookie cutter Windsor 5.0 OHV.The best option is to copy an aftermarket US cam for a Yates headed Windsor 351, Cleveland or BOSS 302 from isky or crower with similar specs.

http://www.mustang50magazine.com/shop4p ... kdown.html

http://www.musclemustangfastfords.com/t ... _data.html

The little xflow valves are a lot lighter, so you can come back on peak poundage. Lift will be a little more aggressive, so you'll be safe. Kelfords would make a suggestion, and help you out. I'll help, Kelfords have some great programs, so I'll call em.

We deal with other cam types in oval track speedway engines. Those seven facets of spring selection

(1.spring bind is 60 thou clear of no of active coils
2.installed spring height must be defined
3.seat pressure for cam spec
4.open pressure for cam spec
5.base circle diameter of cam
6. and rocker ratio
7. Rev range expected

are very easy to resolve for various installed heights based on your base circle diameter.

 

[mike1157]

Just ck'd my email this AM. This was all I got from dean Tigue:

Valve springs:
Recommend a seat pressure of around the 160LB
Nose pressure of about the 420 lb or so.
As I mentioned do recommend to set the cam Valve spring at about 0.060” off coil bind.
One of our customer has used the ISky 253D in his non –xflow and they work very well for him.
Maybe have a look at these.

If you require any more info , please feel free to contact us

That leaves me w/ having to fit the valves, (the guides are smaller than the 11/32 SS valves I purchased) and then getting a retainer for like a 1.550 anticipated spring dia (like CNCdude recommended) and getting that last arbitrary figure.

 

[xctasy]

I think he may have the part number wrong 235D, not 253D

http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/i ... /overview/

http://www.summitracing.com/int/search? ... sky%20253d


See http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/adelaide ... 1039352135

and
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NjAwWDgwMA==/ ... m/$_20.JPG


The 308 Holden is the most raced, GM H's Australian hard a$$ production V8, and valve springs like this take the old V8 to 7000 grand or more, and 450 plus horsepower for like 6 hours and 600 miles at Bathurst.

Dunno about max load at 320 rather than 420, tho'

 

[xctasy]

Sorry its taken so long, but I was busy doing seismic retro fitting for student accommodation

and and loading fire doors for a burgeoning 120 apartment four star hotel

https://dunedinstadium.wordpress.com/ta ... rnational/

Spoke with Kyle at Kelford cam tech in Christchurch NZ two days ago. PM you later in the week when he responds to my email.

Basically, the normal Cleveland/BBC style valve springs were always a problem under load with canted port heads...they are always under a lot of stress in a 1.73 rocker ratio engine, and more so when going to better modern cam grinds, so going to a beehive construction is them best option.

Others use similar specs to yours, but Aussies on all there I6', Ford non cross flows, x-flows and Holden L6's tend to machine the spring pads down to get more spring height

So 1.9 installed for 145 seat and 380 at wide open isn't uncommon with a Chevy intake valve.

cf http://www.xfalcon.com/forums/index.php ... ead/page-4

 

[mike1157]

Sorry its taken so long, but I was busy doing seismic retro fitting for student accommodation

and and loading fire doors for a burgeoning 120 apartment four star hotel

https://dunedinstadium.wordpress.com/ta ... rnational/

Spoke with Kyle at Kelford cam tech in Christchurch NZ two days ago. PM you later in the week when he responds to my email.

Basically, the normal Cleveland/BBC style valve springs were always a problem under load with canted port heads...they are always under a lot of stress in a 1.73 rocker ratio engine, and more so when going to better modern cam grinds, so going to a beehive construction is them best option.

Others use similar specs to yours, but Aussies on all there I6', Ford non cross flows, x-flows and Holden L6's tend to machine the spring pads down to get more spring height

So 1.9 installed for 145 seat and 380 at wide open isn't uncommon with a Chevy intake valve.

cf http://www.xfalcon.com/forums/index.php ... ead/page-4

Well,..I've committed to a CC beehive spring setup that matches Tigue's recommendation exactly. The only thing that those springs have that make them less than ideal, is that those pressures are all predicated on installing them at 1.800". When I measured the free height of the spring w/ the retainers I bought for the beehives, It measured something like 1.880 (rough measurement). Based on that, I bought .060 spring cups, and the requisite shims to bring them to spec.
Conversely,..If I install the spring at the height I measured,...I know my open and closed pressures will drop, (IDK where they'll go though) but I'll loose the added spring seat protection I'll get w/ the cups.

 

[xctasy]

I can see you already did your homework
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engi ... ewall.html
esp http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engi ... rings.html

50 thou Lash caps and positive-offset retainers and locks used for Titanium valve small block Windsors is how I got the 1.9" I needed to get my non cross flow head to cover off Cleveland style lift and duration. Kyles earlier advice was that the stock head is so limited by pre cross flow rocker gear, they don't ever dable with it. The X-flow gets all the input these days.

All this is basic 289 K code and tunnel Port 302, Boss 302 and 302 M code roller rocker conversion stuff. http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,32877.0.html

All the old school valve gear lift restrictions drop away when you use more modern springs.The trick to getting the combo to run is to raise the installed height of the spring pack by shims, lash caps and a little bit of time. Just as you are doing.