New Head and Upgrades

J

jim reese

Active member
I have a question on the new head, intake and carb with respect to my "new" motor.

I had the 250 in my Mustang rebuilt as part of getting a "rust bucket" back on the road. Shorty after that I got hold of the book on the sixes and making them run stronger. The car already has headers and true dual exhaust with 2.125 aluminized pipes.

So here is the question(s):
Will adding the head and roller rocker assembly help the performance even without a new cam?

Will the addition of the 2v manifold and a 2v carb along with the head be an addvantage?

I have read that the addition of the cam would maximize the new head/manifold/carb combination but is it manditory to increase performance enough to make the other changes I mentioned worth doing?

How does adding a new distributor/coil combination affect the above?

Thanks for any comments and or ideas.

Jim Reese
1969 Mustang Fastback 250ci
 
I'm always a fan of ignition upgrades. It's such a separate item to the motor; easy to re-curve if needed due to a later change in engine specs.

One thing you could try with the cam is getting it reground. If you dialled it beforehand, it could be given a hotter grind with any desired advance or retard ground in.

The new head/manifold will definitely offer improved power and response on your log setup, if nothing else is changed. It may also show loss of fuel economy to some extent, as factory cam grind is influenced by the restrictive nature of a standard engine. A smallish 2V carb may be the ticket.
 
Howdy Jim:

Q- "Will adding the head and roller rocker assembly help the performance even without a new cam?"
A- Yes, but remember that engine performance is a balanced combination of all the parts. By "the head" I'm assuming you are refering to the new cast head that AzMike is developing? If so, the flow improvements will help performance throughout the rpm range. Being aluminum you could also run some more compression, all else being equal. If you choose the 1.6:1 roller rockers they will add lift to your valves for a slight increase in power.

Q- "Will the addition of the 2v manifold and a 2v carb along with the head be an addvantage?"
A- Yes. Again, I am assuming you are comparing to a stock one barrel carb. The addition of a 2V carb, over a 1V, would be a nice improvement under any circumstances.

Q- I have read that the addition of the cam would maximize the new head/manifold/carb combination but is it manditory to increase performance enough to make the other changes I mentioned worth doing?
A- Manditory? No, but, again engine performance is a result of the total package. If you're going to the expense and effort to add a new head, roller rockers, a 2V carb and manifold, why wouldn't you want to optimize the package with a complimentary cam and timing set?

Q- How does adding a new distributor/coil combination affect the above?
A- Your '69 distributor has points that begin to wear immediately, requiring constance maintainance. If you increase gap or voltage, wear accelerates. Adding a DuraSpark II or MSD ignition system eliminates points and the associated wear for a stronger, much more reliable system. Either system gives a much stronger spark and the curve can be taylored to most circumstances.

A strong spark and well timed ignition offers a better running engine; from start-up, idle, cruise, economy and performance- regardless of what head, or cam you choose.

You could add a PetroniX Ignitor to your stock distributor for a relatively inexpensive and simple step toward a stronger system that will eliminate the points issues. You could also recurve your '69 distributor for more efficient performance.

Hope that helps.

Adios, David
 
David
Thanks for the information. I need to go back and reread your book.

Does the elimination of the mechanical stock fan and going to an electirc fan set up gain much horsepower and is the switch worth while in terms of cooling and hp gain?

I have been thinking of going to an aluminum radiator as well because of cooling advantage.

I reviewed Mike's page and wanted to ask the differences between the adjustable 1.6 lift rocker assembly, the roller tipped rockers and the full rocker assembly in terms of bang for the buck?

I also would like to lower the car an inch or so, front and rear, and I have not really begun to investigate that, any suggestions on the best way?

Thanks again.
Jim Reese
 
Howdy Back jim:

Q- "Does the elimination of the mechanical stock fan and going to an electirc fan set up gain much horsepower and is the switch worth while in terms of cooling and hp gain?"
A- Yes. How much will depend on what fan you will be replacing and how often the fan need to run. In three seasons of cooler weather the electric fan in my daughters Taurus never comes on- no drag on hp or for making electricity. 1 to 2% more HP to the rear wheels.

Q- "I have been thinking of going to an aluminum radiator as well because of cooling advantage."
A- A high dollar overkill IMHO, unless you just have too much money. There are many steps you can take to improve your stock cooling systems efficiency that are alot more cost efficient.

Q- "I reviewed Mike's page and wanted to ask the differences between the adjustable 1.6 lift rocker assembly, the roller tipped rockers and the full rocker assembly in terms of bang for the buck?"
A- The adjustible 1.6 are basically stock, shaft mounted rockers with the shaft hole moved slightly and rebushed. A great, relatively inexpensive bolt-on for a slight increase in valve lift. The Roller-tipped are mounted on a stock shaft but have a roller where the rocker tip touched the valve stem. As a stock, non-roller moves accross the valve tip it causes friction/heat and it rocks the valve back and forth, causing guide wear. Roller tipped rockers eliminate the friction and valve guide and stem wear. They are more expensive. The full roller rockers have roller bearings on the shaft and the tip. They require a different oiling system, including lifters and pushrods, from the 1st two. They are most expensive.
"Bang for the Buck" is in the eye of the beholder.

The second two have merit in extended high rpm applications. They are lighter and more precise. The 1st may have merit if your short block is in great shape and you want a little more cam without disassembling your engine.

Q- "I also would like to lower the car an inch or so, front and rear, and I have not really begun to investigate that, any suggestions on the best way?"
A- My opinion is that I would cut the stock coils for a street cruiser- IF they are in good serviceable shape and not sagging or unequal. In general a half coil cut is equal to a 1" lower. A full coil cut will drop it 2". Cutting the coils will also slightly stiffen the ride. Lowering blocks in the back, up to 1 1/2" are safe and practical and can be removed to regain stock height.

That's my two cents, for what it's worth.

Adios, David
 
Hi!

Unlike V-8s, to replace the cam in the small six requires the head to be removed. You can't get the lifters out unless the head is removed. So it makes sense to replace the cam while the head is off. Sure you can replace the cam at a later date, but you will have to buy a second head gasket set, and do the whole had install stuff, etc. A cam does not add that much more expense, considering the total cost involved to R&R the head.
 
CZLN6 said:
Howdy Back jim:

Q- "Does the elimination of the mechanical stock fan and going to an electirc fan set up gain much horsepower and is the switch worth while in terms of cooling and hp gain?"
A- Yes. How much will depend on what fan you will be replacing and how often the fan need to run. In three seasons of cooler weather the electric fan in my daughters Taurus never comes on- no drag on hp or for making electricity. 1 to 2% more HP to the rear wheels.

Q- "I have been thinking of going to an aluminum radiator as well because of cooling advantage."
A- A high dollar overkill IMHO, unless you just have too much money. There are many steps you can take to improve your stock cooling systems efficiency that are alot more cost efficient.

Q- "I reviewed Mike's page and wanted to ask the differences between the adjustable 1.6 lift rocker assembly, the roller tipped rockers and the full rocker assembly in terms of bang for the buck?"
A- The adjustible 1.6 are basically stock, shaft mounted rockers with the shaft hole moved slightly and rebushed. A great, relatively inexpensive bolt-on for a slight increase in valve lift. The Roller-tipped are mounted on a stock shaft but have a roller where the rocker tip touched the valve stem. As a stock, non-roller moves accross the valve tip it causes friction/heat and it rocks the valve back and forth, causing guide wear. Roller tipped rockers eliminate the friction and valve guide and stem wear. They are more expensive. The full roller rockers have roller bearings on the shaft and the tip. They require a different oiling system, including lifters and pushrods, from the 1st two. They are most expensive.
"Bang for the Buck" is in the eye of the beholder.

The second two have merit in extended high rpm applications. They are lighter and more precise. The 1st may have merit if your short block is in great shape and you want a little more cam without disassembling your engine.

Q- "I also would like to lower the car an inch or so, front and rear, and I have not really begun to investigate that, any suggestions on the best way?"
A- My opinion is that I would cut the stock coils for a street cruiser- IF they are in good serviceable shape and not sagging or unequal. In general a half coil cut is equal to a 1" lower. A full coil cut will drop it 2". Cutting the coils will also slightly stiffen the ride. Lowering blocks in the back, up to 1 1/2" are safe and practical and can be removed to regain stock height.

That's my two cents, for what it's worth.

Adios, David
Click to expand...
do they have the roller rocks for the 223 I6 if the do who and where could one get them from so I could rebuild my rocker shaft assembly with the roller rockers?
Thanks Mark
 
we have a 223 forum to get real good answ. here is a different era motor so, go to:

Vintage Ford Sixes

A forum for the Ford Flathead Six and the 215/223/262 OHV Six.
fordsix.com fordsix.com
 
They arn't being made currently in mass so don't know of any reasonably price parts at this time. I do know that Jessel can and has made at least one 223 set so they could probally do a custom set for you they are beautiful, but be ready for a really big price tag though. Rocker Arms Unlimited might also be able to make some them, no idea what the cost would be. Best of luck
 
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