New Water Pumps - How Reliable?

[stu in wichita]

My new radiator is leaking after only a couple thousand miles. It's a crummy Chinese part, as so many are these days. The local radiator shop said most of the imports use a solder with a different lead/tin ratio and it just isn't as strong. He didn't try to sell me a new one but said the rest of the radiator was pretty well-made. He's going to re-solder the tanks and necks and it would be fine.

While I have everything out, I'm tempted to put a new water pump on my '64 170. All indications are that it is the original pump. There is no perceptible play in the bearing and it doesn't leak. I put a stethoscope on the housing, and it runs smooth with no weird noises.

My question is, should I install a new one while it's easily accessible? Or should I take my chances on the one that might be almost 50 years old? I've heard opinions both directions. The new one would likely be a cheap import, which might not last long (kinda like my radiator). How about remanufactured pumps? I think they get all new parts, except for the housing. Because of the A/C coil and my front roll pan, it's a pain to remove the radiator, so I'd like to not be doing this again soon.

What do you guys think? I'd really like to hear from someone who puts some serious miles on their car. My Ranchero will be a regular driver - I've logged 2000 miles since late May, and I'm still sorting things out. Thanks.

-Stu

 

[ludwig]

Water pumps come in a couple different configurations for our engine. There are the ones that have a cast impeller that is secured with a set screw. There are newer ones that have a stamped, sheet metal impeller. These might have a set screw but more often they are pressed onto the shaft and are held in place by friction. If you have a problem with cooling, it can be the water pump. You have to check the impeller to make sure it is tight on the shaft and doesn't come loose under load. This could be a problem with your original pump and you have to check it. You also need to check either type right out of the box if you get a new one.

 

[stu in wichita]

Good to know, Ludwig. My car is cooling okay - with the A/C on and 100 degree weather, the temp come up noticeably, but it's never boiled over (yet).

I'm mostly thinking of the new pump as pre-emptive, just to know I have a good one. The configuration differences you describe are important - and these engines need all the cooling help they can get.

Thanks.

-Stu

 

[bubba22349]

I would almost be tempted to keep your old pump if it still checks out. On a new pump I have been using the GMB water pumps have had good luck with them. I have had a couple problems with rebuilt pumps including what ludwig said on my 77 250 after that one that was my last RB. The impeller was a cast type (it disintegrated and I never found any part of it). The damage it caused was quite costly, ballooned the top tank on my new radiator, over heating also wore out the valve guides over time yet that RB water pump never made a noise or leaked a drop. And as long as I never drove over 52 MPH had no problem over heating. Speeds over that it would push the coolant out of the radiator and then overheat. Needless to say since then I try never to use RB pumps if I can help it for any thing I need to be a daily driver.

 

[ludwig]

Bubba ... That was the part I forgot. The OEM are better generally except for that part where the cast impeller starts to crystalize after 40+ years and sheds bits of metal. And that is true with RB and OEM because of the age.

I would say, open the radiator, watch the water circulate when hot and you will see if it's working or not. If it ain't broke ....

Maybe 160* t-stat if you're worried.

 

[rbohm]

8) my advice stu is leave well enough alone. if it aint broke dont fix it. i would however start looking at new pumps to get one that is correct for your application so you have it in stock for when the current one fails.

 

[65fback]

If it looks healthy leave it be. It isn't all that hard to swap it out when it does go.

 

[stu in wichita]

I appreciate all the input. The most important issue is that, because of my modifications to the car, the water pump is EXTREMELY HARD TO ACCESS. The grill, roll pan, hood latch support, condenser coil, radiator all have to come out. There is no room to shift parts around to get the fan bolts out. Definitely not one of those side-of-the-road or AutoZone parking lot repairs.

Since my radiator is already out, I'm contemplating whether it might be a good preventive move to replace the 50-year old part, even though it's working. I'm only a few bolts away - pretty tempting. The engine sat dry on a stand for years before I installed it. The coolant passages were full of rust and crud - maybe some of that was from the impeller. After extensive flushing, the system runs clear and clean.

It's a crap-shoot, either way. The half-century old pump might last for years, or it may fail next week. Same with a new pump. I just wondered if anyone had horror stories about new junk, or maybe a particular brand that has proven to be especially reliable. Maybe I'll pull it and inspect it before I make up my mind.

-Stu

 

[rbohm]

8) gien the new information, i will give you this advice, if you have any questions as to the durability of the current pump, replace it now while the going is easy. that said i am always loathe to replace parts that are doing just fine on a street engine, a race engine is another story.

 

[stu in wichita]

8) given the new information . . . replace it now while the going is easy. . .

I didn't make that very clear in my original post. I should have emphasized why I'd would hate to take it apart again any time soon. I'll probably roll the dice and replace it.

By the way, Rock Auto has a Gates water pump for about $20. It's a new part and a well known company. Anyone have any experience or opinions on this pump?

-Stu

 

[stu in wichita]

Well, this saga finally has come to an end. Before installing my repaired radiator I decided to go ahead and pull the water pump. Here's what I found:

• - It wasn't an OEM pump - it had a disc-style stamped impeller, not cast.
  
  - The impeller was covered with really heavy scale. It wasn't really rusted, just a lot of scale stuck to it.
  
  - It was missing a short section of the metal "bridge" between two blades where the red arrow is pointing (the picture isn't my pump,). Not sure how that happened - maybe it hit a chunk of crud that was circulating. It probably didn't significantly reduce the flow, but it sure didn't help either!

Anyway, I totally over-thought this thing, but the Ranchero is back on the road. Thanks for all the input and support.

-Stu

 

[thesameguy]

By the way, Rock Auto has a Gates water pump for about $20. It's a new part and a well known company. Anyone have any experience or opinions on this pump?

Too little too late, but the Gates pump is what I used when I went through my 200ci last year. So far, a few thousand miles later, I have no reason to doubt it.

 

[JackFish]

I too am looking at water pumps.
It seems rockauto has quite the selection.
They have Airtex Carter Gates Pronto Motorcraft Cardone and ACDelco, which states cast impellor.
I'm tempted to go with the Motorcraft as it's the cheapest, :mrgreen: but would appreciate any recommendations.

 

[65fback]

I went with the Gates from RockAuto. I've been happy with it.

 

[wsa111]

Any pump you choose make sure there is .025" clearance between the impeller & the casting.
The aluminum pump from GMB has a stamped steel impeller & I had to press the impeller closer to the casting-housing to get .025". If one or several blades have too little clearance just pry them up using a fulcrum to protect the casting using a large screwdriver to get the proper clearance.
Doing this will improve the flow.
Gates pumps are highly recommended as well as GMB.
GMB is the only aluminum one, but the inlet comes straight out instead of being curved downward for better lower hose alignment.