now it's time to fine tune it (Holley carb mainly)....HELP!

[wsa111]

Bryce, you are on the ragged edge, i think you need a highter stall converter if you have a c-4. If you have a manual trans you will have a good combination, but will probably need a 850-900 idle speed & then adjust the carb as described before. The 110 centerline cam is a pain in the fanny to get a decent idle with an auto trans. I'd rather lose the 2% power loss to have a decent idle & go to a 112 or even to a 114 lobe center. You just about have it. William

 

[addo]

I hadn't thought of overspringing but it is a possible contributor. If nothing else, it wastes HP and wears stuff out faster. If the capscrews are cracking, however, it would be unlikely the sole cause.

 

[Anonymous]

Why have I now broken 2 cap screws in my full rollers from Yella Terra? The cap screws were torqued to specs and the valves were adjusted according to instructions.

I missed the first one breaking, when was that?

Just wondering how you did adj the valves, did you rotate each cyl to TDC?

I installed the regular roller rockers last week and have had to readjust twice now. Each time it's #6 loose. Been ok for 2 days now though.

Don

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks guys. William, I unfortunately still have the original Ford-O 2 speed...C4 is in the plans along with an 8" rear and driveshaft.

Don, the first one went when I stopped the car at the registration table for a show two weekends ago. I let her idle, hopped out to pay my cash, and I heard it. I limped into my parking spot (not quietly mind you!) and opened up the valve cover after it cooled down. Obvious at that point. I went to NAPA, got a new cap screw (a few of them fortunately) and buttoned it back up.

I adjusted the valves based on Mike's directions:
http://cquesttechnologies.com/fspp/ValveAdjust.asp

When I opened it up tonight, most of them needed readjustment. I'll be checking them regularly for a while and keeping a few of these cap screws on hand!

 

[xctasy]

I am not familiar with Yella Terra but their website says;

Shaft type
(1.65) ST2014
*requires Cleveland lifters and 9.130" pushrods

Glad you found the problem.

Thats for the Aussie 250 with 9.38 inch tall deck. The US 200 is only 7.803" tall, and has the camshaft 3/16" lower. They use approx 7.875" pushrods. The Cleveland lifters have a side oriface hole, and pump a hollow pushrod, not a solid one. If you have the stock 200 pushrods, you won't be getting any Texas T up there, bad news!

Go to Ricksmol's profile, and check his rocker issues. http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=69716&highlight=#69716


He ditched the roller rockers, went to stock rocker gear. The valve gear requirements are specific, Yella Terra do there homework.

Does anyone know of a source of stock height 200 cube pushrod in hollow section for use with the #ST2014 rockers?

I installed a while back an aluminium rolling rocker set up. Drove the car for a few days and the pushrods plain wore out on top. Came to find out that one of the rocker stands had the wrong pressure relief tab.

Went back to the original adjustable rocker set up (came with the 250-2V head). Had the stand replaced with one with no pressure relief and pushrods with a higher Rockwell rating. Harder metal.

Installed the new set up once again. Drove for a couple of weeks and noise started again. Opened it up and the adjusting screws on the rocker arms were worn out completely. Found metal filings all over the place.

Changed once again to the original, changed oil, changed filter and no trouble since. I have gotten new adjusting screws and pushrods but I am hesitant to put the aluminium rockers back in. The original works great.

I adjusted the rockers while the engine was idling. Saw oil coming up and going down the pushrods in a curlycue fashion. Everyhting looked good yet it wore the metals in no time at all. I still don't know why.
Rick

 

[Anonymous]

Thats for the Aussie 250 with 9.38 inch tall deck. The US 200 is only 7.803" tall, and has the camshaft 3/16" lower. They use approx 7.875" pushrods. The Cleveland lifters have a side oriface hole, and pump a hollow pushrod, not a solid one. If you have the stock 200 pushrods, you won't be getting any Texas T up there, bad news!

I do have the OZ2502V head, do you mean it's for the 250 BLOCK? I have no oiling issues. The lifters and rods are all hydraulic...plenty of black gold pumping up top.

If the pushrods were too short, wouldn't that just mean they weren't moving the rocker heads far enough through the range of motion? i can't imagine that would cause the cap screws to break. Shorter rods would mean less motion, no?

However, if the PR's are too long, then on the up stroke of the rod, they could be driving the rocker through the point of highest spring compression, and sure enough, that'd do it. Don't ya think? I guess the other possibility would be if the adjuster screws were torqued down to tight onto the PR in the wrong position of the stroke right?

I'm going to pull all of the rocker heads off and all of the PR's our this weekend for examination. Then, I'll reinstall the rocker heads on each cylinder at it's TDC so that the valves are all the way closed. Then in that position, I should be able to adjust the rocker's on the PR's.

Sound like a plan?

Again, gents. I can't thank y'all enough.

 

[addo]

The pushrod could be too short, and the adjuster taking up the slack. But too long is more likely.

Panic was on top of all this stuff. You'll be best looking for wear, and posting what you find. To break more than one shows a consistent problem, and that's better than breaking random parts for sure.

 

[Anonymous]

true. Thanks Addo. What kind of wear should I be looking for and where exactly?

How do I determine the correct length of pushrod at this point if these are not correct? I understand the concept of rocker geometry, but it's the figuration that I'll need help with.

 

[CobraSix]

I'm running a 110* cam lobe and I was able to get a pretty smooth idle at 650RPM. Now granted it took forever to get it tuned to do that, but eventually it happened. It's also very smooth. Its on the edge though. This winter, if I want to drive it safely, I'm going to need to bump the idle up some as it has a tendency to stall in idle when the engine is still cold but the choke has opened up.

As far as the pushrods go, does it really matter the length (within reason) so long as the rockers are adjustable and the lifters hydraulic? If you had one set of pushrods that are 7.5" and another set that are 7.75", so long as your rockers could be adjusted enough to compensate for that, then it won't matter right? Kind of a hypothetical.

Slade

 

[Anonymous]

My idle is actually really pretty nice (in gear at about 700ish and in park around 900ish). I don't mind the slight lope...just right actually.

I was thinking the same thing on the length of the PR's with adjustable rocker arms. At some point, they will be too long (if the adjustment has bottomed out).

 

[Anonymous]

are these the springs I should be looking at for my DSII to bring the mechanical advance in?
http://store.summitracing.com/default.a ... or+advance

Is this a difficult job to tackle? Are there instructions handy? Once I have the mechanical advance working, I'll probably be better running the vac advance on the ported vac on the carb. I moved it to manifold vac now since there is like NO (very little) mechanical advance. How much mechanical advance should I be seeing say at 2000rpm? It should rise steadily through the RPMs right?

 

[CobraSix]

It should be pretty close to a linear rise for mechanical between 1000 to 3200 RPM. That is assuming you use linear springs. If you by chance get progressive (not sure if that is possible) then you can actually get a timing curve vice timing line.

I may be wrong...but I know mine was pretty linear for increase.

Slade

 

[wsa111]

Bryce, i'm glad to hear you have a decent idle now. Proceed to get the lighter distributor advance springs, that will greatly pick up your low & midrange throttle response.
Slade, your comp 260 cam @ 110 lobe center has the same overlap as an FSPP 264 cam using a 112 lobe center. The 264 cam with a lobe center of 110 will be rougher at idle because of more overlap. the FSPP cam with a 112 lobe center will have idle qualities similiar to your comp 260 cam.
When my back heals up i will do a degree wheel & lobe lift chart comparing the 2 cams. I will be anxious to see the rate of lift between the 2 camshafts. Using the comp 260 cam in a small block chevy was a looser. But lets compare the 2 cams. I will say the comp cam was very mild, had a very calm idle compared to other cams i used in the same duration @ .050. With a small engine the comp cam will be a very nice streetable camshaft to live with, especially with a c-4 trans & stock converter. Judging from the numbers the FSPP will definately crank out more top end power than the 260 comp cam. Would love to see some dyno results or other forum members 1/4 mile performance??

lets hear from the forum. William

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks again WIlliam. You are a font of knowledge that I intend to keep tapping!!

I have the springs coming in tomorrow. Is that a tricky job? Any pointers or "watch out for's"?

I tell you, she's pretty quick off the line right now considering the tranny I'm spinning. Plus, at around 2000rpm, with a goose of throttle, she'll put you in yer seat! I can't wait to get a C4 hooked up!!

 

[Anonymous]

Is this a difficult job to tackle? Are there instructions handy?

Here's a link to a page about recurving a DS dizzy.. Someone posted it awhile back... it's for a v8 dizzy but it's the same thing inside... the vac advance is just on the other side. It's not too hard to do, changing the springs themselves is pretty easy...

http://www.reincarnation-automotive.com ... index.html

Using the comp 260 cam in a small block chevy was a looser

I'd say a 260 duration cam in a 350 (I'm assuming it would be a 350) is damn near like a stock cam... prolly great for MPG, but not performance.

I got a Comp 260 in my 250.. I've yet to get the engine together, I got the short block with the cam in it... I'd like to have a little more (especially since it's a 250 not a 200) but I'm a little limited on budget right now... still way better than a stock cam in a 250. A friend of mine was running a 268 'high energy' Comp cam in his 289 and it was a pretty good street cam... you could hear it a little bit at idle, and it had good all around power... (but this was before they made their 'extreme energy' line, otherwise he probably woulda got one of those)

 

[xctasy]

I'm running a 110* cam lobe and I was able to get a pretty smooth idle at 650RPM. Now granted it took forever to get it tuned to do that, but eventually it happened. It's also very smooth. Its on the edge though. This winter, if I want to drive it safely, I'm going to need to bump the idle up some as it has a tendency to stall in idle when the engine is still cold but the choke has opened up.

As far as the pushrods go, does it really matter the length (within reason) so long as the rockers are adjustable and the lifters hydraulic? If you had one set of pushrods that are 7.5" and another set that are 7.75", so long as your rockers could be adjusted enough to compensate for that, then it won't matter right? Kind of a hypothetical.

Slade

I gotta jump in here. The rocker-to-pushrod angle should be 90 degrees at the MIDPOINT of the cam lobe lift you are using. That way is the most mechanically efficient. It also happens to be the way Ford rates their rocker arm ratios. Did you ever measure lift at the cam lobe and multiply by the rocker ratio and wonder why it is not the same as the value for the lift at the valve? The instantaneous lift ratio changes throughout the cycle.

I once ran a dyno test on some aftermarket 1.5 ratio roller rocker arms to see how much power we would pick up by going to a roller style rocker (This was on a 5.0 GT motor). When it was a bunch more than I expected I checked both the stock Ford 1.5 pedastal rockers and the aftermarket 1.5 roller rockers on a fixture. It turns out that the aftermarket ones gave MORE LIFT AT THE VALVE. Aah Haa! Those clever rascals probably purposely made a rocker arm with a slightly higher ratio than Ford's 1.5 rocker so that performance gains would be more noticeable when a customer switched to their brand. Not only did we see a reduction in friction but we also picked up more area under the lift curve. By the way Ford's 1.5 rockers turned out to have an actual ratio of 1.38:1 at max lift.

I bow to Supperior Ford Knowledge!!!!

 

[Anonymous]

Great link on the DSII change!! PERFECT! THanks tons. It'll be interesting to see which "slot" my dizzie is on. Should I change slots OR just try going with lighter springs to start..OR both (assuming the slot it's in is lower). THe slots just control TOTAL mechanical advance produced right? Whereas the springs control the when, which is my main concern.

 

[Anonymous]

It'll be interesting to see which "slot" my dizzie is on. Should I change slots OR just try going with lighter springs to start..OR both (assuming the slot it's in is lower).

The last DS2 dizzy I had apart that 10 and 15 degree slots. It was on the 15 degree side, and it had the little plastic 'limiter' cap on it... so it probably had about 13 degrees of advance.. the springs weren't too heavy on it (it came out of a Fairmont, '78 or '79... a junkyard dizzy)

IIRC the FSP handbook says not to go over 34 degrees of advance... so if you have 10 degrees of initial timing, and your dizzy is on a 10 degree slot (which is half of crankshaft degrees, so it's 20 on the crank) you will have 30 degrees. Keep this in mind when looking at the slots... not to mention that little clip you have to take off is a real pain to get back in there... and if you do flip it around on the other slot, it's going to turn your rotor 180 degrees as well... so if you marked your dizzy when you pulled it and put it right back in where it was it will now be 180 off... Hopefully it will already be in a decent slot so you won't have to worry about this.

THe slots just control TOTAL mechanical advance produced right? Whereas the springs control the when, which is my main concern

Yes the slots determine the total, the springs determine when.. although if the springs were stiff enough it may never reach the end of the slot...

There's 2 springs in the stock dizzy, one light and one heavy... the light one lets it advance a little bit a little faster... then it kicks into the heavy one so it doesn't advance too much too quickly (you can feel this by turning the upper shaft while holding the bottom around the gear)...
You can also bend the tabs the the springs are hooking on to adjust the tension they have on the advance... like it says on the web page, it needs to have enough tension to return to the idle position... so don't set them too loose... you'l probably get a good feel for it by messing with it, and using the info on the page...

 

[Anonymous]

as always, great info. I'm just going to start with the lighter springs and see what I get. I hate little PITA clips!