All Small Six Camshaft Degree Troubleshooting Help

[drag-200stang]

Just to be clear you are leaving the star washer off and using thread locker instead? I should have been clearer in my earlier post.

 

[78_200_C4]

You degree the cam to make sure you or they did not screw screwed up, See it often, only way to know for sure.

Yea. I read that popular on shelf cams are farmed out.
They are probably ground in China.
That was probably what was wrong with the 260 Comp Cam I bought which had a .006 base circle run out over about 30 degrees.
My 200 with a stock Enginetech large log 256 cam, original stock valve springs, will wind to 5,300+ with a stock timing chain + .060 shorter push rods.
I have found that the biggest performance killer when running a 200 six is the RPM drop when a 3 speed trans. shifts the engine out of it's power band.
When I shift at 5,000 rpm the RPM of my 200 only drops to 4,000 rpm.
I have 6 forward gears to keep my 200 screaming.
The sound is amazing.
Passing all the new cars on I-80 can be a lot of fun in an old Falcon wagon.

 

[65MustangI6]

Just to be clear you are leaving the star washer off and using thread locker instead? I should have been clearer in my earlier post.

Thanks for the clarity as I was planning on leaving the tooth washer in place as well as using blue/medium thread locker. Why do I want to remove the washer?

Also, I plan to use the blue thread locker on the cam thrust plate bolts, which come with lock washers. I've not read anything that talks about removing the washer when using thread locker. Any clarity would be appreciated. Thanks!

 

[pmuller9]

Have you had the time to check the cam timing at the +6 position on both the intakes and exhaust lobes?

 

[drag-200stang]

Thanks for the clarity as I was planning on leaving the tooth washer in place as well as using blue/medium thread locker. Why do I want to remove the washer?

Also, I plan to use the blue thread locker on the cam thrust plate bolts, which come with lock washers. I've not read anything that talks about removing the washer when using thread locker. Any clarity would be appreciated. Thanks!

The star washer is good for keeping low stressed bolt connection from coming loose, but on high stressed bolt connections the star washer can squish out some making the connection lose bolt stretch, torque and come loose. You do not see them on rod bolts, head bolts, flywheel Bolts and etc.
The captured spilt washers are good on the thrust plate bolts, they are made for that, if original. Medium thread locker would be a good Idea, they are not usually a problem if using good stock bolt with washer. If you have regular loc washers, they should be fine as they are not a high stressed connection, with thread locker.
Most timing sprocket, chain, problems are from improper bolt washers and bolt torque on cam bolt and crank.
you are using a thick hard washer on the crank bolt, the one in the pic is too weak.?
If any of this does not make sense just ask.

 

[bubba22349]

X2 Please do listen to what drag-200atang is telling you, he is right on and you will just be asking for trouble using that Star Washer (Ford didn't use Star Washers in that location or anywhere else inside of the engine). The Medium Tread Locker is all you will need for that Camshaft Bolt. Good luck

 

[65MustangI6]

Have you had the time to check the cam timing at the +6 position on both the intakes and exhaust lobes?

Hey pmuller9,

I got a late start today after church and just wrapped up . . . but with tremendous success. I repositioned the crankshaft key way sprocket to +6 and moved the camshaft dot to align with the crank tooth one spot to the left. .050 before top of lobe was 63 degrees and .050 after top of lobe was 149 giving me 212, divided by 2 gives me 106 ICL. Spot on!

I checked using the Duration Method and got 1 degree ATDC and 33 ABDC at .050 on both sides of base. 32 degrees, plus 180 gives me 212, matching my cam card.

I moved on to check LSA. .050 before top of lobe on the exhaust side came in at 156.5 degrees and back side of lobe was 70.5 degrees for a total of 226.5, divided by 2, gives me 113.5. 113.5+106 gives me 219.5, divided by 2 and I'm at 109.75. Cam Card has LSA at 110. Exhaust lobe also came in at a height of .293, right where it should.

I checked exhaust using Duration Method and got 39 BBDC and 7 BTDC. 32 degrees plus 180 gives me 212 again matching cam card.

Thanks again for all the help. There's no way I would have gotten this far and feel good that my valve timing is right on point. On to next week re-torquing everything to confirm it's accurate, install oil pump, timing chain cover and oil pan wrapping up the bottom end.

 

[65MustangI6]

The star washer is good for keeping low stressed bolt connection from coming loose, but on high stressed bolt connections the star washer can squish out some making the connection lose bolt stretch, torque and come loose. You do not see them on rod bolts, head bolts, flywheel Bolts and etc.
The captured spilt washers are good on the thrust plate bolts, they are made for that, if original. Medium thread locker would be a good Idea, they are not usually a problem if using good stock bolt with washer. If you have regular loc washers, they should be fine as they are not a high stressed connection, with thread locker.
Most timing sprocket, chain, problems are from improper bolt washers and bolt torque on cam bolt and crank.
you are using a thick hard washer on the crank bolt, the one in the pic is too weak.?
If any of this does not make sense just ask.

drag-200stang, thanks for the explanation as to why not to use the star washer. I will not include it in my final assembly, but will use thread locker. Also, the washer in the pic is just the degree kit washer. I actually pulled two washers off the balancer during the disassembly, which I intend to replace with something better. Appreciate the help and guidance!

 

[pmuller9]

You did an excellent job getting the cam timing right.
Next time you see someone posting that they want to install a cam without checking the timing, you can be another person to voice your opinion on the subject.

 

[65MustangI6]

You did an excellent job getting the cam timing right.
Next time you see someone posting that they want to install a cam without checking the timing, you can be another person to voice your opinion on the subject.

Absolutely need to degree the cam - I'm a believer. And now it's time for me to "pay it forward" and help the next guy!

 

[78_200_C4]

I don't think Ford degreed in the cam on the assembly line.
Good quality cams must not need to be degreed in.
I am happier than hell the way 200 performs with a non adjustable timing chain set.
I am glad I checked the 260 Comp cam that I bought and sent back.
No amount of degreeing in would have helped that cam.
I'll stick with the Enginetech large log 256 cam.