Oil smoke on new rebuild of 223

jminor

New member
Good morning. With about 300 miles on my 223 and three on the tree complete rebuild using all new parts "accept" the rocker assembly, I am getting a lot of oil smoke.
The smoke occurs throughout the rev range. Plugs are ALL wet with black colored stuff. Really bad smoke when I let off the gas to coast or go down hill; the smoke stops when I take it out of gear.
I double checked to make sure I had all valve seals in place,,,,they are.
Any thoughts, ideas or experiences would be appreciated.
Jon Minor
 
Sounding a bit like the honing of the bores wasnt done correctly, perhaps going out and loading the engine up, eg, full throttle up hills to bed things in might work.
 
Sounding a bit like the honing of the bores wasnt done correctly, perhaps going out and loading the engine up, eg, full throttle up hills to bed things in might work.
Sounding a bit like the honing of the bores wasnt done correctly, perhaps going out and loading the engine up, eg, full throttle up hills to bed things in might work.
I appreciate the suggestion. More miles was my thought as well. Just the first time I have had this issue after many rebuilds over the years.
 
Were the valve guides redone or at least checked? These engines are known for valve guide wear.

On mine I machined the valve stem post to accommodate a cup style (SBC) valve stem seal. The original style seals really don’t do much.

Sucking oil on decel sounds like valve guides.
Agree- valves most likely. Is your crankcase venting system correct? Can the blow by escape to atmosphere?
 
remember once I bougght a car that was real junk, it had a burned valve. big chunk missing. not wanting to spend, and just basically fooliung around, i stuck some other valve in there . it had a lot larger stem and head so I turned the valve down on the lathe and made it fit. lapped it in. I knew that was a pokey idea fro mthe get go but was just a kid having fun then, with more time than cash.

not having reamers at hand, I just picked the closest drill bit I had but put new seals ;-) Not the rounded hats but the ones that have springs around the valve stem. I figred maybe that would do it..
no it did not work..

hoo boy the thing ran ok but wow , sure smoked on accelleration and decelleration, It would have this blue smog following it. if I floored it it almost looked like a mist I dont think it could even burn all the oil it used. I drove it a week or two then disassembed the car for parts.

ive seen a few other times where people did a re ring but left the head then had similar issues. I think sometimes a ring job can increase compression and then the problems of the valve stem fit come into the spotlight.

I wonder if there is a solution that doesn't require removing the head? probably not but maybe there is som idea.

I wonder if pressurizing the cyinders might reveal or prove the issue? but then I assume since the valves are closed,during such a test, I guess that realll only really checks the valve seat.

when you said "all new parts", did that include oversize pistons and a rebore or just honing and new rings?

sometimes if there is a top ridge left and if it is only honed, and new rings are installed the compresion ring may hit the ridge and break..

can you be sure it isnt; just getting way too much fuel? is it using a lot of oil?
I recently bought a 30 dollar boroscope, plugs into my phone. it seems to be pretty useful , my suggestion is to try looking inside, maybe that could reveal any scratches in the bore but then maybe it sounds like any practical solution will require head removal anyway.

perhaps possible to have the guides knurled and then reamed, the knurling can reduce the diameter and hold oil. maybe it woudl help and then the valve guides it has might be ok.. a shop that does heads might have an opinion on that or maybe one of the more experienced engine builders here.

I took a head into a engine shop and I had just installed brand new guides so I asked them to ream them. he said that although I had plenty of meat to work with and he could just ream them, that it was preferable to knurl and then ream anyway.. just for the reason of holding oil in the little ridges that the knurling creates..
Maybe then you'd need to just lap the valves in as doing that may move them about ever so slightly?

likely with the "experinece" of needing to take it apart again you may just want to send the head out and have it done for you. I can feel the frustration, knowing it was already a lot of work, time and some money invested. maybe others have alternate suggestions but it sounds like its coming apart again. - as long as it;s not a result of just getting a lot more fuel than it should.

maybe if its fuel youd see more black smoke or maybe smell like its runnign too rich, and with oil maybe more blue smoke and the smell of buring oil. It would be positive if it's fuel related but it might just be a hopeful thought.

maybe do the compression test then do it again wet with a squirt of oil and see if there is any difference in the readings. seeing a big change might suggest the ring sealing is an issue but either would require pulling the head anyway.

Was the ring gap checked ? maybe if it was too small it broke a ring?
maybe a question for others, ,,,
If a ring IS broken would it revel itself at this stage by looking at the bore, for any vertical lines. with the head off? or would you have to pull the pistons to verify that ?
 
Were the valve guides redone or at least checked? These engines are known for valve guide wear. Sucking oil on decel sounds like valve guides.

On mine I machined the valve stem post to accommodate a cup style (SBC) valve stem seal. The original style seals really don’t do much.

Check out this page from Summit Racing https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pow-pow351345
A huge help, thank you. I have been searching for alternative valve seals, I'll dig deeper into your lead. The heads where completely rebuilt,,,,,planed, valve guides installed, valve angles redone.
Looks like the head is coming off to at least go through it all again.
 
remember once I bougght a car that was real junk, it had a burned valve. big chunk missing. not wanting to spend, and just basically fooliung around, i stuck some other valve in there . it had a lot larger stem and head so I turned the valve down on the lathe and made it fit. lapped it in. I knew that was a pokey idea fro mthe get go but was just a kid having fun then, with more time than cash.

not having reamers at hand, I just picked the closest drill bit I had but put new seals ;-) Not the rounded hats but the ones that have springs around the valve stem. I figred maybe that would do it..
no it did not work..

hoo boy the thing ran ok but wow , sure smoked on accelleration and decelleration, It would have this blue smog following it. if I floored it it almost looked like a mist I dont think it could even burn all the oil it used. I drove it a week or two then disassembed the car for parts.

ive seen a few other times where people did a re ring but left the head then had similar issues. I think sometimes a ring job can increase compression and then the problems of the valve stem fit come into the spotlight.

I wonder if there is a solution that doesn't require removing the head? probably not but maybe there is som idea.

I wonder if pressurizing the cyinders might reveal or prove the issue? but then I assume since the valves are closed,during such a test, I guess that realll only really checks the valve seat.

when you said "all new parts", did that include oversize pistons and a rebore or just honing and new rings?

sometimes if there is a top ridge left and if it is only honed, and new rings are installed the compresion ring may hit the ridge and break..

can you be sure it isnt; just getting way too much fuel? is it using a lot of oil?
I recently bought a 30 dollar boroscope, plugs into my phone. it seems to be pretty useful , my suggestion is to try looking inside, maybe that could reveal any scratches in the bore but then maybe it sounds like any practical solution will require head removal anyway.

perhaps possible to have the guides knurled and then reamed, the knurling can reduce the diameter and hold oil. maybe it woudl help and then the valve guides it has might be ok.. a shop that does heads might have an opinion on that or maybe one of the more experienced engine builders here.

I took a head into a engine shop and I had just installed brand new guides so I asked them to ream them. he said that although I had plenty of meat to work with and he could just ream them, that it was preferable to knurl and then ream anyway.. just for the reason of holding oil in the little ridges that the knurling creates..
Maybe then you'd need to just lap the valves in as doing that may move them about ever so slightly?

likely with the "experinece" of needing to take it apart again you may just want to send the head out and have it done for you. I can feel the frustration, knowing it was already a lot of work, time and some money invested. maybe others have alternate suggestions but it sounds like its coming apart again. - as long as it;s not a result of just getting a lot more fuel than it should.

maybe if its fuel youd see more black smoke or maybe smell like its runnign too rich, and with oil maybe more blue smoke and the smell of buring oil. It would be positive if it's fuel related but it might just be a hopeful thought.

maybe do the compression test then do it again wet with a squirt of oil and see if there is any difference in the readings. seeing a big change might suggest the ring sealing is an issue but either would require pulling the head anyway.

Was the ring gap checked ? maybe if it was too small it broke a ring?
maybe a question for others, ,,,
If a ring IS broken would it revel itself at this stage by looking at the bore, for any vertical lines. with the head off? or would you have to pull the pistons to verify that ?
Phil - thankyou for the complete reply. Truly appreciate the insights and thoughts.
See answers for your questions,,,,,,,,
- YES. Re-bore with new pistons and rings.
- NO. I cannot say its not getting too much fuel. The original carb was shot, even after rebuild. I went with a Holley single barrel and I have reduced
the jet size down by nearly eight jet sizes. How can I tell if too much fuel is still coming through?
- BLACK SMOKE. Not really. But it does have black "liquid" coming out of the pipe and spraying on the shop floor. This happens every time it's fired
up.
- COMPRESSION. I like the "check with a squirt of oil" idea. I'll give that a shot.
- RING GAP. Yes, I gapped the rings. I remember being worried I might have too big of a gap. I'll keep this in mind.
 
Were the valve guides redone or at least checked? These engines are known for valve guide wear. Sucking oil on decel sounds like valve guides.

On mine I machined the valve stem post to accommodate a cup style (SBC) valve stem seal. The original style seals really don’t do much.

Check out this page from Summit Racing https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pow-pow351345
I also have a "tick" in the valve train that I cannot make go away. I have run rocker clearance from .010 to .019 and the tick sound does not change.
 
I suggest you poke around with a mechanics stethescope, they are worth having , youcan really hear a lot , so it might help locate the general area of the ticking, and that could be good info before disassembly.

the others here know these ford engines better

Id just note that I did a rebuild another engine and my valve springs werent; being compressed quite enough and I resolved that by placing some thin washers under the valve springs. I'd had the valves done and new seats. the distance between the valve stem keeper groove and the spring land had changed by Im guessing .020" , suprisingly to me, it was enough to cause valve float. valve float might be described as a ticking sound, probably more eviident at higher RPMs

I dont see any relationship between valve float and burning oil, but it can seriously mess up your camshaft and lifters. it might be stuff to look at if you remove the cylinder head.

maybe you can tell if the lifters are spinnning by looking at the wear marks?, I believe they should spin. Those questions are probably best asked of the ford 6 engine experts .. I just thought if you have to open it so soon it's also a chance to inspect how well the break-in process is going.
 
Crankcase is vented well. Using the original vent tube that mounts into the side of the block and simply points down to the ground.
That’s the road draft tube. It’s only working when the vehicle is moving down the road.

One suggested upgrade is to remove it and install a PCV valve (w/grommet) in its place. If you choose to do that, you’ll need a vented oil fill cap to complete the circuit, and obviously find a location to add the vacuum hose to feed the PCV.
 
I also have a "tick" in the valve train that I cannot make go away. I have run rocker clearance from .010 to .019 and the tick sound does not change.
That all but confirms valve guide slop. Valve tick with correct adjustment symptom= this every time. With the draft tube there is minimal crankcase pressure, so that's eliminated as a cause of forcing oil past the rings or valve guides. Your stem seals must be faulty for some reason, and/or (based on the tick), there is excessive stem clearance.

That’s the road draft tube. It’s only working when the vehicle is moving down the road.
This is not correct. If it's not restricted, the blow by eases out of the open tube with very little restriction, irrespective of airflow around it. There is no downside mechanically to using a correctly sized vent to atmosphere.
 
That all but confirms valve guide slop. Valve tick with correct adjustment symptom= this every time. With the draft tube there is minimal crankcase pressure, so that's eliminated as a cause of forcing oil past the rings or valve guides. Your stem seals must be faulty for some reason, and/or (based on the tick), there is excessive stem clearance.


This is not correct. If it's not restricted, the blow by eases out of the open tube with very little restriction, irrespective of airflow around it. There is no downside mechanically to using a correctly sized vent to atmosphere.
Thanks Frank. I'm focusing on the heads now. With compression checking out, it's the obvious first move.
 
Note; these engines have solid lifters and will always have a pleasant little clickity clack in the background.

Eight jet sizes is a lot. Might want to revisit that.
I have been told the solid lifters will always have a little noise,,,,,,but this loud. So loud, several other "car guys" with experience on these engines have heard it and suggest it's too loud and something is off.
Should I just keep going down in jet sizes until it effects the way it runs and then go back up one size?
 
I have been told the solid lifters will always have a little noise,,,,,,but this loud. So loud, several other "car guys" with experience on these engines have heard it and suggest it's too loud and something is off.
Should I just keep going down in jet sizes until it effects the way it runs and then go back up one size?
Yea if it’s loud then it’s loud. Make sure you’re getting oil up there. The rear oil tube feeds the rear of the rocker shaft, the front of the rocker shaft is fed directly through the block/ head. The front oil tube is a return line that sprays directly onto the distributor gears. I added a press fit delrin bushing to the rear tube to ensure it wasn’t leaking.
 

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