Priming my oil system, gonna start her tonite

[WestCoastComet]

Yeah, I changed the rockers, whole new rebuilt deal from classic inlines. I'll check each pushrod and see what's going on. If the lifters are ok, would changing to adjustable rockers remedy this? Or do I have a wear issue with a cam lobe? Would it just keep wearing down and I'll have to keep on adjusting them? Would I be able to put adjustables on with no other mods? Just bolt the shaft down?

 

[WestCoastComet]

Forgot to ask....

Could a slightly worn cam lobe, with a little bit less lift, on your exhaust valve create a burned valve?

What I mean is if I changed to adjustables to take up the slack on a worn system, could a certain amount of lost lift result in bad damage to exhaust valves? If so, how much lift can be lost without failure? Would it not matter that much if the worn lobe were for an intake valve?

 

[JackFish]

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong but a burned valve is usually caused by incorrect timing, and has nothing to do with valve lift.

 

[echo1955]

Are we talking one lifter here or more?

 

[echo1955]

Forgot to ask....

Could a slightly worn cam lobe, with a little bit less lift, on your exhaust valve create a burned valve?

What I mean is if I changed to adjustables to take up the slack on a worn system, could a certain amount of lost lift result in bad damage to exhaust valves? If so, how much lift can be lost without failure? Would it not matter that much if the worn lobe were for an intake valve?

Did you install a new cam?

 

[WestCoastComet]

Oh, I just thought that if my ex. valve didn't have enough lift it wouldn't be able to get rid of the spent charge fast enough and either dirty up that piston or mess up the valve or something.

It sounds like a single component. It's not the same as when they all had no oil. Just one of them, I think.

What do you guys think about converting to adjustable? Is that a band-aid fix to a much broader problem that needs to be addressed? That is, if we were correct in assuming it's a lifter or slack issue.

 

[powerband]

What do you guys think about converting to adjustable? Is that a band-aid fix to a much broader problem that needs to be addressed? That is, if we were correct in assuming it's a lifter or slack issue.

It's a good idea. I think asssembly line repeatable tolerances and tweaks allowed for non-adjustables - adjustable is more practical for re-build tolerances.



Have Fun

 

[echo1955]

Oh, I just thought that if my ex. valve didn't have enough lift it wouldn't be able to get rid of the spent charge fast enough and either dirty up that piston or mess up the valve or something.

It sounds like a single component. It's not the same as when they all had no oil. Just one of them, I think.

What do you guys think about converting to adjustable? Is that a band-aid fix to a much broader problem that needs to be addressed? That is, if we were correct in assuming it's a lifter or slack issue.

I think converting over to adjustable is ok.
I also think if only one lifter is the culprit changing over to adjustable will not resolve the issue.

I also think if you are using the original cam or a new cam, and if it has failed on any lobe
All the money in china will not bring that cam back home.
If this issue falls on the cam the only solution will be to replace the cam.

I just ant ready to go there yet..

For the moment I will eliminate the head, push rods, rocker assembly and all lifters except one….

If it was me, I would confirm which lifter is casing the noise by fallowing the tedious procedure outlined above.

My thinking fallows: The car ran great for an hour or so then the noise came after the engine cooled and the oil settled back down.

Possible causes:
Dirt in the oil ports
Bad Lifter
Possible Solution:
Remove the noisey lifter and confirm it is ok.
Remove distributor and prime the engine again to confirm oil is reaching that lifter and rocker arm..

This can be messy, but you can use a long screwdriver: Place the handle end to your ear and place the metal tip at various points along the rocker assembly.

When you get to the noisy one you wont have any doubt that it is the culprit.
Just use caution, it is fast and easy to trace noise this way.. Except here you will loose some oil..from sling

 

[echo1955]

Once you have confirmed the noisy lifter you could also swap it out with two or three lifters down and see it the noise fallows it.

the reason to move it down several lifters is to move the noise far enough so as not be confused with it being to close to the original noise. If that makes any since..

 

[WestCoastComet]

Since I've got to pull the head to change out a lifter... would it be any benefit to see if the lifter is still operational by putting in an oversize pushrod after I determine which lifter it is? My thinking being that perhaps the oversize would take up the slack, and if the lifter is still operational and filling with oil, all would be well(?). That still seems to indicate a worn lobe, though, which is pretty weak...

 

[chopperman69]

What if...

What if you had a bent pushrod. That in conjunction with non-adjustable rockers would cause that particular lifter/rocker arm to be out of adjustment.

I would run all of the valves and if one appears to be loose, pull the pushrod and check for straightness. Should be able to do that by rolling it across a piece of glass.

Scot in OKC

 

[echo1955]

Hey good point Scott.
At this point I wouldn’t hesitate to check everything. That’s an easy check as well.

Man it gives me the heebe geebies tho, just thinking what it takes to bend one after the motor ran so well… :|

 

[Frankenstang]

I just read most the posts on your thread WCC. There is one thing I highly recommend before pulling the head (just would not jump to that point quite yet, as powerband suggested above if it's running well otherwise I don't think I'd suspect a valvetrain part failure just yet).

IIWIYS I'd grab a wooden broom handle or suitable substitute and see if you can trace the source of the noise by laying one end to your ear and the other end to various points along the engine or its components; such as down the drivers side of the block (lifters are pretty close there, so if it is one lifter in particular making the noise you should be able to tell). You'll be amazed at what you can hear via this method...for instance check the alternator bearings, or water pump bearing BEWARE the fan, or distributor shaft, etc, etc.

I've used this method for years to trace all sorts of noises like bad idler pulley bearings vs. tensioner pulley bearings on newer engines. Just used this method about a month ago to verify my fuel pump was making the noise that sounded like a bad engine bearing. Put an old stock Carter mechanical fuel pump on in place of the cheap Airtex mechanical from autozone and it's been quiet ever since. Again, you'll be amazed how traceable it will make the sounds all over the engine. You can also use a long screw driver or other metal rod or similar...just that the broom or mop handle is usually the handiest.

I had a stuck valve on my engine when first fired after sitting several years. There is a definite miss. I think you would still notice insufficient lift from a bad lifter or other valve train issue...when you say it's running smooth it makes me think that is not the issue. Just my $.02 Good luck!

 

[69.5Mav]

Lots of things in an engine can make noise. The first thing is to find out where it is coming from.

Get a good Mechanics stethoscope, sears sells them among other places. With that you should be able to locate the sound very quickly.

Once you know where it is coming from you can make some educated guesses and proceed from there.

Remember when debugging always start with the cheapest and easiest first and continue to more expensive as necessary.

Exhaust leaks can sound a lot like a valve clatter.

I once had an engine that was making a ticking noise but no matter how I adjusted the valves it would not go away. Took it for a long ride only to have it through a rod. The wrist pin was failing. Drove it home on one cylinder.

So don't drive it around much until you get this sorted out.

Good Luck

 

[JackFish]

Loose exhaust manifold bolts are a typical noisemaker.
And they will loosen up.

 

[powerband]

Good points, good to mention an exhaust leak can easily mimic mechanical noises.

 

[fairlanedave]

Hey scott, I was just reading your post and noticed you might want to swap out to adjustable rockers. I've got a stock adjustable rocker assembly from a scrap 200 that I've got no use for. It's got some rust on it but it might clean up ok... If you're interested, you can have it if you wanna cover shipping. let me know

 

[WestCoastComet]

Thanks fairlanedave. I'll keep that in mind. I didn't get much done in terms of diagnosing this weekend (playoff football is very distracting!), but I'll get to it this week and figure out which way I'll go. Thanks for all the ideas guys. I'll post an update.

 

[jaan-e]

We primed it with a drill, and saw oil coming out of rockers, ran it and it ran fine. No noise from lifters. Now it doesn't sound like all the lifters (before I primed it, they were all clicking,) but just one. It has pressure.

I have non adjustable rockers. I wish they were adjustable now. The noise is definitely in the block, not accessories. It doesn't seem like the sort of click your lifters have after sitting for a while. Besides, we were driving it like 30 minutes before this started, so I'm sure it's not just from sitting for a while.

I think this weekend I'll run it with the valve cover off and feel the rockers, pushrods, etc. Maybe a longer pushrod will fix it. It just seems like that shouldn't be necessary you know? This head has never been milled before, and my machine guy only milled off enough to clean it up. With the new felpro gasket taking the place of my original shim gasket, I'm sure the dimensions should be okay. Plus, if it's the rocker shaft height that's the problem, all of the pushrods and lifters should be making noise.

ANY ideas are welcome guys... even bad ones


I do think you got the answer right her, not enough milled of the head.. My 2cent

 

[WestCoastComet]

I thought about that jaan-e. I just think they would all be making noise if it wasn't enough. I'm still not sure though, I gotta pull my valve cover and feel around.

Anybody have any idea how a pushrod can get bent? One of mine was bent when I took the head off, but I replaced everything from lifters to pushrods to rockers, so now I'm stumped on why only one would be acting up. I'm starting to wonder why that pushrod was bent in the first place. I figured it was from a stuck valve or something from initial start up after 20 + years of sitting. I'll try to get an update here on saturday or sunday about what I see when I take my cover off.