Propane.
- Thread starter MTGunNut
- Start date
Good fortune.There is no such thing as a cheap propane (LPG) system when you want dual fuel. EFI and LPG require many changes which cause significant work to be done by a specialist to maintain legality come smog test time.
Over here in New Zealand and Australia, Ford's with dual fuel EFI I6's are common, but they don't have emissions checking to the same standard as some US states, so you can do lots to get them to run on propane as a primary fuel, and then hook on to gasoline if you need the extra range. Its nothing to get ranges of 250 miles on propane, then another 250 on gasoline. And a good propane tuner can spend a few days perfecting a custom system with relays and cut-outs to turn the EFI off, and get it running perfect on each fuel. For the US, that is not an option.
I'd also warn you that I am a dyed in the wool Impco propane carb man, and wouldn't use anything else on a big EFI US six. It's the only option you have, as OHG, Landi Hartog and GRA and Century systems are not able to match an injected engine in a dual fuel situation.
The EFI 4.9 has a long twin throttle body intake which requires a specific Impco Ca 225 or 300 or 425 mixer (carb) in the intake tract, and then a method for relaying the injectors to turn then off during propane operation, and then putting the computer into open loop so it is not going nuts trying to trim the fuel and igntion.
Doing these two changes will trigger a fault code in any 1996 with OBD computer. Depending on state of registration, if it has OBD, and if it has a MAP or Mass flow sensor, there are differnt stratergys to tuning it to run on Propane. The method of air sensor or pressure has to be able to cope with the wax that is present in an LPG system. It's common for these systems to break with propane, and it costs a lot to place in a system which is realiable, as they are tuned to the computer.
The peak advance the ignition system gives must be tied back to 32 degrees under load by either statically retarding the ignition outside the specifications of the emmissions Nazis. If this is illegal, a special ignition system change is required. These days, ignition is very difficult to reliably alter and still maintain factory function.
It's not impossible, just difficult to manage these things.
Biggest risk is the ignition and air sensor. Open looping the electronics and finding a good Impco LPG system are easy. Ensuring continued dual fuel function is going to require yearly tuning, and if you have a range of different weather conditions, you may have to alter some of the water and air temperature sensors to fool the computer into a different ignition setting.
Over here in New Zealand and Australia, Ford's with dual fuel EFI I6's are common, but they don't have emissions checking to the same standard as some US states, so you can do lots to get them to run on propane as a primary fuel, and then hook on to gasoline if you need the extra range. Its nothing to get ranges of 250 miles on propane, then another 250 on gasoline. And a good propane tuner can spend a few days perfecting a custom system with relays and cut-outs to turn the EFI off, and get it running perfect on each fuel. For the US, that is not an option.
I'd also warn you that I am a dyed in the wool Impco propane carb man, and wouldn't use anything else on a big EFI US six. It's the only option you have, as OHG, Landi Hartog and GRA and Century systems are not able to match an injected engine in a dual fuel situation.
The EFI 4.9 has a long twin throttle body intake which requires a specific Impco Ca 225 or 300 or 425 mixer (carb) in the intake tract, and then a method for relaying the injectors to turn then off during propane operation, and then putting the computer into open loop so it is not going nuts trying to trim the fuel and igntion.
Doing these two changes will trigger a fault code in any 1996 with OBD computer. Depending on state of registration, if it has OBD, and if it has a MAP or Mass flow sensor, there are differnt stratergys to tuning it to run on Propane. The method of air sensor or pressure has to be able to cope with the wax that is present in an LPG system. It's common for these systems to break with propane, and it costs a lot to place in a system which is realiable, as they are tuned to the computer.
The peak advance the ignition system gives must be tied back to 32 degrees under load by either statically retarding the ignition outside the specifications of the emmissions Nazis. If this is illegal, a special ignition system change is required. These days, ignition is very difficult to reliably alter and still maintain factory function.
It's not impossible, just difficult to manage these things.
Biggest risk is the ignition and air sensor. Open looping the electronics and finding a good Impco LPG system are easy. Ensuring continued dual fuel function is going to require yearly tuning, and if you have a range of different weather conditions, you may have to alter some of the water and air temperature sensors to fool the computer into a different ignition setting.
No. 
The Megasquirt will require you to set up the engine to suit new gasoline injection settings which you'll have to develope. You'll still have similar issues with injectors, ignition and question over emissions still remains.
Basically, dual fuel with EFI gasoline and LPG propane is expensive, and requires an expert to sort it out. The advice from 9 out of 10 experts in Austraila is that they wouldn't personally screw up an EFI engine with propane unless there was a factory conversion for it. There is none for a 1996 Ford 4.9.
I've seen some really great dual fuel combinations...one guy runs a 5 liter V8 with switchable Cal Pack Chevy computer with two programs. He runs it legally on the highway on propane to the drag strip, then fills it up with VP plus race fuel, and wins circuit races with a 450 hp engine. He's just spent thousands on the combination, and is delighted.
It would be easier to convert a 96 4.9 to single or dual a Holley 350 2-bbl with Offy intake, electric fuel pump and add a CA 300 adaptor than run the EFI and propane, and use the Holley 'off road' or as a get you home reserve tank. But you'll still have issues with emmisions.
Ford spent a lot of time making the EFI 4.9 great engine, and mucking around with it to improve it with MS and Propane would not be easy.
The Megasquirt will require you to set up the engine to suit new gasoline injection settings which you'll have to develope. You'll still have similar issues with injectors, ignition and question over emissions still remains.
Basically, dual fuel with EFI gasoline and LPG propane is expensive, and requires an expert to sort it out. The advice from 9 out of 10 experts in Austraila is that they wouldn't personally screw up an EFI engine with propane unless there was a factory conversion for it. There is none for a 1996 Ford 4.9.
I've seen some really great dual fuel combinations...one guy runs a 5 liter V8 with switchable Cal Pack Chevy computer with two programs. He runs it legally on the highway on propane to the drag strip, then fills it up with VP plus race fuel, and wins circuit races with a 450 hp engine. He's just spent thousands on the combination, and is delighted.
It would be easier to convert a 96 4.9 to single or dual a Holley 350 2-bbl with Offy intake, electric fuel pump and add a CA 300 adaptor than run the EFI and propane, and use the Holley 'off road' or as a get you home reserve tank. But you'll still have issues with emmisions.
Ford spent a lot of time making the EFI 4.9 great engine, and mucking around with it to improve it with MS and Propane would not be easy.
xecute":3fanoepf said:No.
The Megasquirt will require you to set up the engine to suit new gasoline injection settings which you'll have to develope. You'll still have similar issues with injectors, ignition and question over emissions still remains.
Basically, dual fuel with EFI gasoline and LPG propane is expensive, and requires an expert to sort it out. The advice from 9 out of 10 experts in Austraila is that they wouldn't personally screw up an EFI engine with propane unless there was a factory conversion for it. There is none for a 1996 Ford 4.9.
I've seen some really great dual fuel combinations...one guy runs a 5 liter V8 with switchable Cal Pack Chevy computer with two programs. He runs it legally on the highway on propane to the drag strip, then fills it up with VP plus race fuel, and wins circuit races with a 450 hp engine. He's just spent thousands on the combination, and is delighted.
It would be easier to convert a 96 4.9 to single or dual a Holley 350 2-bbl with Offy intake, electric fuel pump and add a CA 300 adaptor than run the EFI and propane, and use the Holley 'off road' or as a get you home reserve tank. But you'll still have issues with emmisions.
Ford spent a lot of time making the EFI 4.9 great engine, and mucking around with it to improve it with MS and Propane would not be easy.
What about the 4.9L vin "z" code? That is a bi-fuel engine, So would some thing like that work? To take the propane gear off that?
Im just really interested in running an alternative to gasoline.
My knowledge is gap graded, and limited to pre 1988 US Fords, and post 1996 Aussie Fords, nothing else.
From 1982 to about 1986, there was a factory CA 125 and CA 225 propane dedicated kit for 1-BBL 4.9 F-series trucks and E-Van's. There may have been a few CA 300 kits around, which are very easy to hook up and are dual fuel. Stock 1-bbl carb only.
If Ford US or Canada had a factory Z code 4.9 EFI truck engine which wasn't a stationary gas engine, but an actual utility vehicle , then you have found paydirt. Find the factory manual, and duplicate the conversion, and then set up your own webpage so people can benefit.
Over here, dual fuel Ford Falcons were marketed with factory support from 1996 to date, and are reliable and well sought after, there is a wealth of information, and they are examples of brilliantly executed instillations with support from Impco, then Century, and now, Ford Australia make there own fully bi-fuel integrated system.
From 1982 to about 1986, there was a factory CA 125 and CA 225 propane dedicated kit for 1-BBL 4.9 F-series trucks and E-Van's. There may have been a few CA 300 kits around, which are very easy to hook up and are dual fuel. Stock 1-bbl carb only.
If Ford US or Canada had a factory Z code 4.9 EFI truck engine which wasn't a stationary gas engine, but an actual utility vehicle , then you have found paydirt. Find the factory manual, and duplicate the conversion, and then set up your own webpage so people can benefit.
Over here, dual fuel Ford Falcons were marketed with factory support from 1996 to date, and are reliable and well sought after, there is a wealth of information, and they are examples of brilliantly executed instillations with support from Impco, then Century, and now, Ford Australia make there own fully bi-fuel integrated system.
An easy way to control dual fuel on EFI vehicles is with an autotronics dual fuel box (if you can find one) They are, or were a division of MSD, they became obsolete in the last few years. I use this type of controller on my 2001 ford triton v-10 and it works awesome.I have done several conversions on ford EFI's this way in the past and they have always worked well, I agree that impco is good quality and probably easiest to find, I would recommend a 425 on a EFI six, an exellent trouble free carb, I run a 450 OHG on my v-10 because it flows more CFM. Propane has less energy per volume than gasoline, Approx. 27% less so you need to get more fuel/air into the motor on propane so you will burn more propane to go the same distance,therefore a 425 which is 450cfm should work well.If you don't care about performance a smaller carb will work well also.
Technocarb makes dual fuel conversion kits for specifically for Ford 4.9L engines. Impco-based conversions work better with Dual Curve electronic controllers but these are no longer available from Autotronic Controls Corp - MSD Ignition.
Without the correct Dual Curvecontroller, I would not recommend using an Impco mixer on any EFI engine. Also, the Model 425 mixer is a bit oversized for six cylinder engines. You will have better starting and overall drivability with a Model 225 or a Model 200 (depending upon your displacement). The model 200 is commonly used on 4.6L Crown Victoria conversions and you could also consider using a Model 300 dual fuel mixer as well.
The Model 425 is actually rated at 460 CFM and you cannot oversize propane carburetors like gasoline carburetors. A 300 CID engine will only require 332 CFM at 4500 RPM (assuming 85% VE), which is close to the Model 225's 329 CFM rating.
Without the correct Dual Curvecontroller, I would not recommend using an Impco mixer on any EFI engine. Also, the Model 425 mixer is a bit oversized for six cylinder engines. You will have better starting and overall drivability with a Model 225 or a Model 200 (depending upon your displacement). The model 200 is commonly used on 4.6L Crown Victoria conversions and you could also consider using a Model 300 dual fuel mixer as well.
The Model 425 is actually rated at 460 CFM and you cannot oversize propane carburetors like gasoline carburetors. A 300 CID engine will only require 332 CFM at 4500 RPM (assuming 85% VE), which is close to the Model 225's 329 CFM rating.
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