quick question about coils

[rommaster2]

Hey do ignitionc coils just die and stop working? I'm wondering because right now my falcon has the coil that came with it and it just today wont start up. Two days ago it fired up just fine before i worked on it, and after. The engine turns over, but it wont spark or fire so i'm thinking it has to be the coil, which i already suspected was going bad. After all it might be the original coil. Would you say thats the likely suspect?

Oh and also if i get a new coil for those who have a pertronix and the pertronix coil, is it that much better then the stock coil with a pertronix cause i have the pertronix 1 ignitor and it ran well, just wondering if i should spend the extra money.

 

[ludwig]

Well, I have the P II with the flame thrower and it works great. Much better than stock. You get a hotter spark and can widen up the point gap.

Actually, I got all new ignition parts. Just threw all the stock stuff away because it was pretty far gone: corroded, cracked insulation, lotta taps here and there.

 

[jamyers]

Coils die from internal shorts, most often caused from heat/age. Main cause of heat is poor condition of the rest of the ignition system, which causes the coil to work harder to keep up.

Save your money on coils, there's a really good 'standard' coil available through NAPA that's better-made and has really good specs. I'll dig out the part number and post it here. I've got one on my high-compression Buick 464 with an MSD 6A box, and it'll throw an astonishingly bright arc across a one-inch gap from the coil lead.

Old-school oil-filled coils are far superior at cooling than today's epoxy-filled hot-boxes, although modern coils are more vibration-resistant (which seems backwards to me, since modern engines are supposed to be so smooth).

 

[jamyers]

Aha! I knew I could find the info...

From this threadat V8Buick.com:

"Best (& only) oil filled coils to get are:
NAPA IC12
MSD 8200
Summit G5215
Carquest 26189
* NAPA and Carquest are same coils, made by same people (Mexico) to the same specs."

This info comes from a guy named Dave Ray who goes by the online name Ignitionman, and is very highly respected for his work.

 

[jamyers]

Looking online, I found the following prices:

Napa IC12 = $46.49
MSD 8200 = $48.73 at MSD, $44.88 at Summit, $44.99 at Autozone, $47.88 at Advance / PartsAmerica,
Summit G5215 = $18.95 online
Carquest 26189 = (couldn't find it, their website is useless)

Remember, Summit has an idiotic $10 flat-rate handling charge, so their coil would run $28.95 and take a week to arrive. I'd either head to NAPA or check your local chain stores for the MSD coil.

 

[rommaster2]

Looking online, I found the following prices:

Napa IC12 = $46.49
MSD 8200 = $48.73 at MSD, $44.88 at Summit, $44.99 at Autozone, $47.88 at Advance / PartsAmerica,
Summit G5215 = $18.95 online
Carquest 26189 = (couldn't find it, their website is useless)

Remember, Summit has an idiotic $10 flat-rate handling charge, so their coil would run $28.95 and take a week to arrive. I'd either head to NAPA or check your local chain stores for the MSD coil.

Thanks for that info, if i get off of work early today or tommorrow i can check it out at napa, if not it'll have to wait till next week .

 

[james singleton]

Rommaster2, did you happen to disconnect the wires to your solenoid? If so, you could have switched them, or backwards; you said you worked on your car? What exactly did you do? If you were in the distributor; check the ground wire! Good Luck, Jim

 

[LaGrasta]

I got my generic, chrome 40,000 volt coil for JCWhitney for only $20!

 

[jamyers]

Umm...I just went back and read ALL of your OP, and before you run out and throw $$ at it, check the points - make sure they haven't moved any. Also, double-ckeck the condensor, sometimes the little connector grounds to the base plate.

You can check the coil for dead shorts with an ohmmeter. Connect across the two small side terminals and then from the large center terminal to either (both at separate times) side terminals. From side-side you should get around .75 to .8 ohms, and from the center-to-side you should get about 10,000-11,000 ohms.

 

[rommaster2]

Rommaster2, did you happen to disconnect the wires to your solenoid? If so, you could have switched them, or backwards; you said you worked on your car? What exactly did you do? If you were in the distributor; check the ground wire! Good Luck, Jim

i replaced all the wires in the engine compartment except for the turn signals. Oh and after i did all that i started it up and it worked fine. It just wouldnt work this time, and i rechecked everything, nothing was wrong *shrug*.

 

[jamyers]

You replaced the engine wiring harness, the charging system wiring, (spark plug wires?) but not the headlights / turn signals, and now the engine turns over fine, but won't fire off and run, correct?

First off, I'd make sure you have no spark by pulling a sparkplug putting the wire back on it, getting some insulated pliers and holding the plug threads against some bare metal while a helper cranks the engine while you watch for a nice blue spark across the plug gap.

Failing that, then I'd check the Cap and Rotor (make sure they're clean) points (make sure they're opening, I think .015 is the right max gap), and then make sure you've got voltage coming into the distributor (should have 4-6 volts at the points with the ignition switched on). If you don't have voltage at the points with the ignition on, then backtrack to the coil, then ignition switch and find what's open.

If your points are good and you've got voltage at the points, then it's coming through the coil ok, so I'd check the resistance through the coil with an ohmmeter (ignition off) as outlined above.

 

[Anonymous]

The rotor is in the dizzy?

 

[jamyers]

The rotor is in the dizzy?

Yes, just under the cap.

 

[Lazy JW]

...

You can check the coil for dead shorts with an ohmmeter. Connect across the two small side terminals and then from the large center terminal to either (both at separate times) side terminals. From side-side you should get around .75 to .8 ohms, and from the center-to-side you should get about 10,000-11,000 ohms.

What type coil are you testing? Those primary readings seem a bit low and the secondarys are pretty high. Just curious.
Joe

 

[jamyers]

What type coil are you testing? Those primary readings seem a bit low and the secondarys are pretty high. Just curious.
Joe

Umm, I got those number from memory, I think they came from from my Falcon or International manual. May well be high/lo, but if his coil is truly dead he oughta get either 0 or infinite ohms (at least that was my thinking...).

 

[rommaster2]

Well i think i may have found the culprit. Earlier today i was out messing around with it and i started it up went to drive it and it died again just like before. So i got pissed and open the hood to see if anything was noticably wrong. In my angry state i decided to move the wires that go from the distributor to the coil cause i just didnt like where they were. When i did that i noticed that the wire that goes to the coil and sits underneath the resistor wire was loose. So i got a washer and put it between the coil wire and the resistor wire and then blammo it started up and ran just fine, actually i think it was stronger then before.

 

[jamyers]

Hey, glad you're onto something!

I think that old cars just want us to open the hood and say "hi" every so often.

My brother-in-law says that a blood offering to the underhood-elves is required, so whenever I go to work on the car I need to just go ahead and ram my knuckles across something jagged and get it over with.

 

[mugsy]

AMEN, Jamyers! the elves in my Mustang like lots of blood offerings

 

[66 Fastback]

I just replaced the coil on my Pontiac today. It has been ruuning poorly for a few weeks and would die while sitting at a stop light after it was warm. Today, I was looking under the hood and noticed a visible crack in the top of the coil. I took it out, and the coil was loose and could be rotated in its can. It also had been leaking oil. Replaced it today and it did not try to die at the stop lights today. I think the old coil may have been heating up and the spark was getting poor at idle.
Doug