All Small Six Rear main seal - Tips and Tricks

This relates to all small sixes
Thanks guys! I am awaiting my Toyota FIPG sealant to arrive in the mail. In the mean time, I am trying to line up all details... Nobody wants to do this twice....thanks for all your help.

1.) Yes...I am using the Fel-Pro neoprene...sorry for not specifying from the start.
2.) The consensus is to put the butting ends at 4 and 10 oclock with the ends sticking out about 1/4" with a dab of Toyota FIPG.
What is a dab? when someone says dab to me....I am prone to use too much (more is better?).

3.) I have a question about putting oil or grease on the neoprene seal before inserting it.
--WSA111 suggested - "applying a liberal amount of lube to prevent a dry start."

I have read forums or viewed videos of people putting motor oil on the neoprene seal before inserting it? I read one recommendation to ""put grease on the lip or inside face of the seal that will rub on the crankshaft to keep the neoprene from burning up when you first crank the engine."" I was also wondering whether I need to be careful about how much oil or grease I put on the neoprene seal if I want the a "dab" of FIPG sealer on the ends to do its job....or am I over thinking this? Any thoughts on this?
---- It will be several weeks before I get all the parts back on the car...maybe grease would be better than oil for preventing a dry start? What type of grease/lube would you suggest?

4.) As Bubba suggested...I loosened several caps and used a pry bar to get the camshaft to move down a bit...I didn't actually see it move but I think it is loosened up enough to get the seal to slide in fairly easily.

5.) Related to WSA111 and Chad's posts: - Sealer where the rear main caps sits on the block....
QUOTE: "Make sure you also put a small amount of sealer on the edge where the rear main cap sits in the block on both sides, also put a very thin layer of sealant at the back of the rear main cap from the seal to the end of the main cap on both sides. That will prevent seepage past the machined surfaces where the rear main cap seat into the block."
Here is a picture I found on the internet...I added the green lines? Is that where the sealer goes? Do I need to add any other lube on this? A small thin line of sealer is all i need? I have a tendency to use too much
1629222639867.png

Thanks everyone!!!
 

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forget da odder shit, just confusin ya.
Listen here.
Grab da bull by the horns'n get goin.
Not an immense deal. Must give it a try to advance~
C # 19 for the "B all, end all" of anything rear main seal ThriftPower engines !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
1. Excellent.
2. A dab isn't much like about an 1/16 to 1/8 inch in height on the seals but ends.
3. Yes oil works though I usally will use some white grease like Lubriplate.
4. Good if the seal slides in easy that's great if not loosen up the caps a little more and pry the crankshaft down some more.
5. About were your green lines are drawn on the rear main cap only use the RTV at the narrow sides of the cap next to were the block is machined, not on the orther part of the L going to the inside edge of the cap any leak in that area would be inside the crankcase so no need. But also use some RTV only along both the sides of the main cap were it fits down inside the machined out area the short block this is the area shown on the left hand side of you above picture of the rear main cap the guys one finger is touching that part. Use it only in those areas were there is a chance for oil to seap out of the block and into the bell housing area. Don't use any were your arrow in the above picture is pointing at, this is also inside of the crankcase so no need the rear seal is behind it to take care of that area. I don't have a way to draw you lines for all these places. Last is were the main caps parting line is right next to were the rear main seal grove is this needs some of RTV also this is on the right hand side of the main cap picture were the guys index finger tip is touching. If you look closely at the rear of the short block any areas that's located inside of the oil pan and its gasket or behind the rear main seal isn't going to leak if they are installed properly. Just look at those areas were the block was machined out for the rear main cap to fit into it these machined lines are all the places that you could potently seep some oil out into the bell housing. Best of luck Edited
 
Don't forget. When you drive the pin out of the cap (since you're using a neoprene rather than rope seal", be sure to put a bit of RTV in the hole where the pin used to be. You only need to fill that little hole. Also, see this post of mine from June. It has two pics that show you exactly where to put the FIPG sealer. Follow it and you should be good to go. I'm nowhere near being a mechanic and I was able follow the WSA111's instructions. The pics from the Ford manual completed the mental process for me.
 
the red in pic @ #21 is 'assembly lube'. It must B used on the face of surfaces that touch as they rotate on 1st start-up after initial assembly. It is used even tho we spin our oil pump w/an external drill/driver to shoot crankcase oil thru the engine B4 start up as the contact disallows entry. make sure to to view a few vids on the whole process, have a few read throughs of "Handbook"; "In-Line6"
www.vintageinlines.com

Ford Inline Six: How to Rebuild and Modify | Vintage Inlines

Covering Ford’s small 6-cylinder engine made famous in Falcons, Comets, Mustangs, and many other models from the 1960s and 1970s, this book has everything you need to know from step-by-step rebuilding instructions to performance parts that will set you apart from the rest of the crowd. If this...
www.vintageinlines.com www.vintageinlines.com
ora bud w/experience thru motor assembly & start up if new to this adventure. Y B nervous thru the process when U can B decisive AND successful? Good U R not the other way "This is a knuckle draggin Neanderthal endeavor." It is neither esp when U have more than just us here.
 
Just bought the Ford inline six book on Amazon.... thanks for the recommendation.
I have an old Ford shop manual... it’s thick but not very9F7D2058-0C2F-43D3-93AF-E44A098F12D6.jpeg detailed in its descriptions... not like the pics that twodogs posted.
 
I tore some of the seal trying to get it in...see picture) does this mean I need a new seal. Ugh! Or will it be ok....FYI...These seals are hard to find right now...only a few places have them in stockimage.jpg
 
I rec no pic (post 28) altho a huge open screen. Is motor in vehicle?

SURPRISED that (official) ford shop manuel (used by dealer employed ASME sanctioned) mechanics is "not detailed". THAT pic came thru & kinda looks like what I just described...exploded diagrams, tq charts, some pretty detailed 'sequence of operations' on dissassembly/assembly. Further on this than Chiltons, Hanyes, etc...

"...Ford inline six book..."
I'll show my dissapointment in this if not purchased from the co-author Matt, our member and owner of Vintage Inlines above. U just funded Brasass's nxt trip into space (w/co-traveler Nerdy Gates). Matt also has "the Handbook". That w/above 'tech archive' and an experienced neighbor R all U need to do this job.
 
shreqshack said:
I tore some of the seal trying to get it in...see picture) does this mean I need a new seal. Ugh! Or will it be ok....FYI...These seals are hard to find right now...only a few places have them in stockView attachment 8085
Click to expand...
That looks like to me that the damage is only on the back side of seal that goes in the grove, did it do any damage the lip of the seal that goes against the crankshaft in any way? If so then its no longer not useable. So the crankshaft wasn't dropped down enuff to slide it in, loosen up all the main caps some more so that it can move than bar it down some more so it has sufessant clearance. Is the seal grove clean? If there isn't any damage to the lip part you should be ok, if you install the seal going from the opposite direction as you try'ed on this first time then that torn part sould not ball up and raising that area of the seal, or carfully cut that torn part off maybe use some RTV there. Be carful if the seal doesn't slide in easy without any grabbing and tearing then the crank needs to drop down some more. Best of luck
 
Hi, the seal is damaged. I wouldn't use it. I'm guessing that is the one that slides up into the block. How did you know it was torn? I would loosen the main caps more and try to lower the crank. Try putting the good half in. Good luck
 
Mine shaved a 'whisker' off of that top side that sits in the groove also.
I think they are a tad tall...

Mine sealed up fine...no leaks.
 
Thanks to everyone's help...I did get the rear main seal installed. It will be a while before I get a chance to start the engine to see if it seals up. I went ahead and used the gasket that tore just a bit on the top. I was able to slide the other seal in without it tearing at all so I used the slightly torn gasket on the more accessible side. The tear was only on the top part. I used a dab of FIPD to glue it back in place. Then I torqued the cam bolts back down...not without breaking one (that is another story)...but I am getting ready to put on my fuel pump. Thanks again!
 
"...torqued the cam bolts..."
do U have the Chilton's, Hanyes, Ford shop maunal, (Matt's new book may have them) or check in with the tech archive above? This is where the tq tables exsist to help U avoid that, do the job right. Some do not realize this is a technical science, not justa "grease monkey' endevor. We actually read, study, do testing, research, etc.
 
I have additional questions concerning rear rope seals. After installing the seal, and torquing the bearing caps, how much torque should it take to rotate the crank? currently, there are no rods or cam connected to the crank. This is a rebuild on a clean bare block. I am using ARP studs and realized that the machine shop used the old bolts when they align honed the block... will this present a problem?
 
It maybe a problem, the best practice is to always use the same fasteners you are planing to use for the final assemblely of the engine, so they should be installed and in use before having any of that type of machine work done like a aline honing. IE For another example if your going to rebuild your connecting rods and want to use ARP bolts for their better holding strength then they must be installed before the rods are being rebuilt / or resized. Different bolts, studs, or torque settings can effect the roundness of main caps or the Rod caps. A rope rear main seal will cause quite a lot of frictional drag until it's very well used. Try testing the crankshaft oiled and torqued down in the main bearings without the rope seal, dose the crankshaft spin real easy or dose it require some torque to turn it? With typical street engine with main bearings clearances of .0015 to .0025, bearings that are well oiled, and all the main caps torqued down to the torque spec. virtually there is no torque needed to move just the crankshaft in the block, by placing one hand on a counter weight and flicking the crankshaft around as you release your hand, the crankshaft should spin effertiously severial rotations. If the crank dose spin easily than you should be ok and you can then reinstall the rope seal again and compleate your short block assembly.

Now if you were using a neoprene rear main seal this can also be installed first and not really have much of any effect the in amount of turning torque effort that's needed to spin the crank. But this isn't the case with a new rope type seal they will add a lot of friction this maybe as much as 5 to 10 Ft. Lb's in friction in the beginning until they are well used. I have never tested the rope seals by themselves to see how much torque is required to turn the crank. I had stopped using the rope seals in almost all of my engine builds by the late 1960's, if a neoprene main seal was being made for the engine I used one. From experance and testing using the neoprene seals as a replacement to rope seals in completed engine assemblies I found they will show significantly less in frictional loss. If you don't mind experimenting take a torque reading now with the rope seal installed and again after you remove it this would be an interesting test to learn from. In a meticulously assembled short block with the (correct bearing clearances, a good crankshaft journal Polish, correct ring gaps, camshaft, timing chain / gear set installed, good cleanliness, etc.) the completed Short Block should take about 35 Ft. LB's of Torque to turn it, less is always better meaning you have less frictional losses. Best of luck Edited
 
Hi, as Bubba mentioned, the friction of the rope seal is significant. It may feel that the crank is stuck. I have not used a rope seal since the 1970s. I remember learning how to soak the in oil and install them by rolling it in with a big pipe.
Did you spin the crank on the new bearings before installing the seal?
Did you check the bearing clearance? I use plasti-gauge.
I doubt by changing to arp studs that you will see and measurable distortion because bearing caps and mounting surface is beefy enough. Just torque the studs and nuts according to the directions.
Good luck
 
Speaking of neoprene seals... Does anyone have an extra FelPro BS 30135? I've tried to install a rope seal, even using the Ford tool, but no joy.
The rope seal ends up way too tight and will not allow the rear bearing cap to seat... What am I doing wrong???
 
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