Remote Radiator Questions

[sdiesel]

In this build there will be a need for room for an itercooler and the idea came to me that i could mount the cooloing radiator remotely
Rock buggies do it. Why not me?

here is the logic.
the grill is a crowded place. if i removed the coolant radiator i would have more room.
As a side note, In a different project running concurrently, I am putting a cummins in a Ford where space is a matter of real concern.

On this f350 i have no fuel tanks and the entire space between the frame rails is open due to not having fuel tanks there.
its well protected and its big enough for a dozer radiator.

The other place that might work is the space between the cab and the flat bed. in this location i can cut holes in the headache rack down low, mount electric fans and pull air through the warmed air serving to heat the propane tank Which especially on cold mornings suffers from low pressure to move product.

QUESTION:
With large enough cooling capacity ( dozer radiator) do i really need forced air or even fans?

i would of course mount electric fans , thermostatically controlled on top of the flat radiator.

the radiator would lay flat would that change anything?

I am not crazy though it may seem that way....

 

[80broncoman]

As long as its big enough you would never need a fan. It would help for it to have air flow though.
And remember the more you turn up the power the more radiator your gonna need.

 

[sdiesel]

as far as power goes, well we are dealing here with a ford 6. in a heavy truck
if i get 220 hp im thinkin im walkin in tall cotton....

but thanks for the comment it seem rational what you are saying
i suspect its true that with enough water you dont need forced air cooling.

 

[Asa]

Personally, I'd run a fan anyways. It'll take some decent math to figure out how much water you need (and what do you mean by a dozer radiator? A Cat D7? A bobcat? other?) and even then you'll need a safety factor.
I would suspect that you'd rapidly come to the point where you're carrying buttloads of extra weight in the form of water, and I would also suspect that you'd take days to warm the truck up (not a good thing if you're where it gets cold), finally I would suspect that you'd get to the point where your operating temp would never be stable because your thermostat would be trying to regulate such a huge mass of water.

You might be able to do it, but I honestly don't see a good reason why you should run such a huge radiator that you don't need to run a radiator fan.

 

[80broncoman]

as far as power goes, well we are dealing here with a ford 6. in a heavy truck
if i get 220 hp im thinkin im walkin in tall cotton....

but thanks for the comment it seem rational what you are saying
i suspect its true that with enough water you dont need forced air cooling.

I read too fast to see the

....in a different project...

part

My comment about added power applies a lot more to the Cummins. I'm thinking if you increase your power 30% you could easily need 30% more cooling capacity from stock and even more if you want to omit a fan.

It should warm up in the normal amount of time with a properly working thermostat.

 

[sdiesel]

this silly idea wont let go.
recently, since i posted this idea
a project truck was dumped into my lap, its a toyota 4x4 big cab with a v6 .
there is a supra inline six to go in place of this v6.

If you guys have ever looked into the toyota inline 6 you know what a monster it is
an engine that stops all argument and one of the best reasons against adding two cylinders.
well i got engine and truck given to me what to do? well finish the project of course. i will go very conservative with one turbo instead of the factory 2 and here it gets interesting.

I want to remote cool this engine with a 6.9 diesel radiator behind the cab.

the plumbing and physics are simple to work out. i can ram air from ducting above or beside or below the cab and add electric fans to pull air through the radiator. i will flat bed this rig. the hot air from the fans pulling rearward will blow heat onto the propane tank which will fuel this gem. thus i get good pressures because of that heat even when cold outside

here is where i get weird in my thinking. if i have the extra 8
inches where the radiator and fan were placed
i have all kind of room for clever heat exchangers, fabbed up to fit the cavity left by the radiator.

i will have lots of coolant flowing around. its simple to use that piping to feed the exchangers .
the coolant available for the engine can be used in the exchanger first to cool the charge then into the engine to cool the engine, then back out into a massive resavoir of cooled water

if i can keep reserve water well below operating temp, then heat that water a bit in the heat exchanger to operating temp before it gets into the engine i can accomplish two chores with the same water; get cooler charge for the intake, maybe use injected propane or at least throttle body injection., water fogging for intake cooling,

lots of possibilities
a remote resivoir is looking more interesting to me
or am i just getting crazier.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Don't reinvent the wheel. Run a front mounted radiator with or without an engine mounted fan as clearance allows. For a long time I ran no fan whatsoever and it only took maybe 20mph of flow over my stock (2 core) radiator to keep things cool. The problem with running remote radiators is that they rarely see enough air flow without a fan.

I've seen pics (on here somewhere) of an intercooler mounted in front of the stock radiator leaving plenty of room for oil coolers below. The OE style A/C condenser takes up very little space and is more than adequate cooling for a transmission if needed. If you're desperate you may want to try removing the fan and clutch, moving the radiator back and mounting an electric fan in front of the whole setup. Another possibility is keeping the OE radiator without a fan and plumbing an undersized (and easier to fit) remote radiator with fans from a Civic or something (basically a big heater core).

 

[xctasy]

Just run some copper line, and just do it. cat 268b skidder's have run rear radiators for years

So do lots of Suzuki Samuri off roaders when a 3.3 Ford or GM L6 or blown V6 or V8 is added. The rear radiators are kinda mandatory

http://www2.izook.com/?page_id=33

32 and 34 Ford big block's have been running rear radiator cars on the street since Adam was a Highboy. Favorite is Cole Cutler's '34 Ford 5-window




Rivals in race Brian Dean & Cole Cutler used to have street driven, street'nstrip rear radiator big blocks 1986 Fremont https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bw2vM3Zsb5c


Lately, there is a 1934 twin turbo big block ford coupe

Of course, cooling your car from the other end creates a whole encyclopedia of problems. Ed says he gets calls about just this situation. “The problem with most cooling issues is guys place a mechanical fan 6 inches from the radiator,” says Ed. “The fan is going to draw air from the path of least resistance, so if the fan is 6 inches from the radiator, it’s just going to pull the air that’s behind the radiator and not draw anything through it. It’s the same premise in the back of the car.” There’s no ducting on the ’34 per se, but the two electric fans are attached to a sheetmetal shroud helping to draw air through the louvers in the Steve’s Auto Restoration decklid. The natural airflow around the trunk allows plenty of air to flow across and through the radiator surfaces.

Read more: http://www.hotrod.com/featuredvehicles/ ... z33SV1jwBi

http://www.hotrod.com/featuredvehicles/ ... rflow.html
http://faridv8.proboards.com/thread/168 ... lock-coupe

http://image.hotrod.com/f/featuredvehic ... s-rear.jpg

 

[Cool23]

Why not mount your radiator in the usual location and remote mount the inter cooler ?
By doing this you could use a new style air to water inter cooler.

This system takes up much less room than the standard Air to Air inter cooler system.

When I built my F4 with the Cummins viewtopic.php?f=13&t=41598
I mounted the radiator in the stock location and then put the Air Con and transmission coolers all to the back away from the radiator. This left the radiator to do the job in the standard location and everything else away from creating heat in the engine bay and like you I had room to put those items at the back in the chassis and out of the way.

 

[MustangSix]

With large enough cooling capacity ( dozer radiator) do i really need forced air or even fans?

the radiator would lay flat would that change anything?

Define "large enough". Eventually you could heat an Olympic swimming pool to the boiling point. Even a giant radiator will overheat if there's no air flow. You need some way to carry the heat away and air flow thru the radiator will shed those BTU's.

Lay it flat. No problem except maybe in getting all the air out of it. I've seen several trucks and rockcrawlers with the radiator in the bed and even flat on top of the rear cage, but I don't recall any without fans. You could certainly place radiators alongside the frame rails, but you'd still need air to flow thru them.

All of this certainly complicates the plumbing, though.

 

[sdiesel]

thank you thank you!
some other forums thought me nuts ( high probability of being right) just not with this idea.
the heat exchanger i see there in the post is a turn-on, looks i could almost mount it anywhere even inline on the turbo plumbing!


the rear radiator is mostly for engine clearance. give me more room for engine front activity, and room for flat plate coolers
another benefit may be cooler air into the engine bay directly onto the engine, but this may force hot air onto the firewall.
flat plate coolers for oil, and rear radiator & fans blowing air onto the propane tank to keep pressures up...

having the engine side of the radiator core support empty will give me needed room for the swap .



whose the manufacturer of that heat exchanger?
pnr or pwr something like that?

Also you guys from down under i have been trying like the dickens to get hold of gas research about some mixers. they never respond any idea if they are still doing business?

 

[sdiesel]

Don't reinvent the wheel. Run a front mounted radiator with or without an engine mounted fan as clearance allows. For a long time I ran no fan whatsoever and it only took maybe 20mph of flow over my stock (2 core) radiator to keep things cool. The problem with running remote radiators is that they rarely see enough air flow without a fan.

I've seen pics (on here somewhere) of an intercooler mounted in front of the stock radiator leaving plenty of room for oil coolers below. The OE style A/C condenser takes up very little space and is more than adequate cooling for a transmission if needed. If you're desperate you may want to try removing the fan and clutch, moving the radiator back and mounting an electric fan in front of the whole setup. Another possibility is keeping the OE radiator without a fan and plumbing an undersized (and easier to fit) remote radiator with fans from a Civic or something (basically a big heater core).

i did the same thing with the 67 f 250.except idle i never needed a fan. but this rig is some heavy and its pulling and towing all of the time. its got the 460 radiator now with lots of juice but when i run a turbo, then i will need extra room for an air to air, ut those heat exchangers look mighty sexy for the job to cool air. if they work then i can leave the radiator front mounted.