Slanting the small six.
- Thread starter '68falconohio
- Start date
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4154/498 ... caa0_z.jpg
Confirmed that there was a 30 degree Slant Six conversion done to the XY 4X4. It was something I experimented with in Jan 2004 when I got a Nissan LD28 engined XC Falcon. The conversion is just to the right hand engine mount, and your concept is reality.
If you don't have a cross member, you have to convert to the latter SBF style item for V8 X-shell cars.
Its very easy to do. I was looking at doing it for my X-flow engine, so I could fit the RO34 Supercharger to my destroked 229 cube machine. It also allowed the easy fitting of the US SBF auto gearbox.
It's all in I'm gonna blow my budget and 25 degree slant six, all old HardCore posts back when I was a greener cabaage than currently.
Basically, the later Mustangs, Fairlanes, Torinos, Mavericks and Granada/Monarch/Versialles based on the orginal X-shell have a cross member, and the Aussie XR/XT/XW/XY/XA/XB/XC/XD/XE/XF/XG/XH sixes after 1966 to 1999 had simple cross members with a flat pad. You just take the right pad off, and make it flat, and you've get close to a 30 degree tilt almost instantly.
I've shelved the differnt stuff for present. A good deal of our Aussie Cortinas and some other vehicles like Explorers, early pre F100 Ford Broncos and Bronco ii's and Rangers aren't good candidates for slanted I6's; they have limited firewall space, but the conversion is easy for Fox Bodies where taller 250 sixes often portrude through the hood.
Pursue your goals. The Slant six Mopar's block is little different to our Ford I6's, and if you use Mopar engine mounts, you've got plenty of options.
Confirmed that there was a 30 degree Slant Six conversion done to the XY 4X4. It was something I experimented with in Jan 2004 when I got a Nissan LD28 engined XC Falcon. The conversion is just to the right hand engine mount, and your concept is reality.
If you don't have a cross member, you have to convert to the latter SBF style item for V8 X-shell cars.
Its very easy to do. I was looking at doing it for my X-flow engine, so I could fit the RO34 Supercharger to my destroked 229 cube machine. It also allowed the easy fitting of the US SBF auto gearbox.
It's all in I'm gonna blow my budget and 25 degree slant six, all old HardCore posts back when I was a greener cabaage than currently.
Basically, the later Mustangs, Fairlanes, Torinos, Mavericks and Granada/Monarch/Versialles based on the orginal X-shell have a cross member, and the Aussie XR/XT/XW/XY/XA/XB/XC/XD/XE/XF/XG/XH sixes after 1966 to 1999 had simple cross members with a flat pad. You just take the right pad off, and make it flat, and you've get close to a 30 degree tilt almost instantly.
I've shelved the differnt stuff for present. A good deal of our Aussie Cortinas and some other vehicles like Explorers, early pre F100 Ford Broncos and Bronco ii's and Rangers aren't good candidates for slanted I6's; they have limited firewall space, but the conversion is easy for Fox Bodies where taller 250 sixes often portrude through the hood.
Pursue your goals. The Slant six Mopar's block is little different to our Ford I6's, and if you use Mopar engine mounts, you've got plenty of options.
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68falconohio,
Many NHRA Comp racers have done just as you suggest - lay their engines over to gain a straighter shot at the intake and also to improve the overall aerodynamic package of their racers. What type of 'smaller, lighter' car are you planning? Do an image search on john peto, steve ambrose, glen treadwell and kevin self - you'll see their open wheeled drag cars all with engines tilted to some degree.
Keep thinking outside the box.
Many NHRA Comp racers have done just as you suggest - lay their engines over to gain a straighter shot at the intake and also to improve the overall aerodynamic package of their racers. What type of 'smaller, lighter' car are you planning? Do an image search on john peto, steve ambrose, glen treadwell and kevin self - you'll see their open wheeled drag cars all with engines tilted to some degree.
Keep thinking outside the box.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Wallaka, is gravity the important force here? I think it would be inertia. Air is HEAVY!! And fuel is HEAVIER!! That's why the straighter shot ought to be better (ignoring other factors).
I think it was Bristol, in the Fifties or earlier, that had an engine with the ports running nearly vertically down into the head. Maybe some automotive Anglophile here will know; I'll Google it, but expect this to be tough to find.
(edit) After a short search, no luck. There's info on the Bristol sleeve-valve aero engines, and car dealers in Bristol, England, and it looks like there was a company named Bristol that closed recently after building very expensive, handmade cars. Nothing yet on the old cars; the old Bristol car company was in business in 1960; how long after that, I don't know. All-aluminum bodywork, IIRC, rather aerodynamically slippery for its time, but that's getting off-topic. I'd like to see a drawing of that head . . . .
I think it was Bristol, in the Fifties or earlier, that had an engine with the ports running nearly vertically down into the head. Maybe some automotive Anglophile here will know; I'll Google it, but expect this to be tough to find.
(edit) After a short search, no luck. There's info on the Bristol sleeve-valve aero engines, and car dealers in Bristol, England, and it looks like there was a company named Bristol that closed recently after building very expensive, handmade cars. Nothing yet on the old cars; the old Bristol car company was in business in 1960; how long after that, I don't know. All-aluminum bodywork, IIRC, rather aerodynamically slippery for its time, but that's getting off-topic. I'd like to see a drawing of that head . . . .
I think the Bristol engine was originally a BMW design. Perhaps you can find something there
Felix's 328 BMW head, found on Frazer Nash, Bristol, AC Ace. The design and tooling was given to the British from BMW as war repayment.Know it like the back of my hand
See http://www.shawinspectionsystems.com/pr ... aphics.htm
and http://www.shawinspectionsystems.com/pr ... 56x229.jpg
Same idea as the early LP350/400 Lamborghini heads by Dalara
see http://warnercnr.colostate.edu/~anderson/ECCnew.htm
and http://warnercnr.colostate.edu/~anderson/E6.jpg
The engine had a very small bore, long stroke, and started as a 1971cc engine, but then become a 2.2 liter later on. Single 1-bbl tripower in take of Zenith carbs made good power, canted valve hemi head used stock non cross flow BMW block tooling.
120 hp gross Power was good in the AC Ace and Acea, and 16.5 second quarters and 120 mph top speed. Engine was outmodded by 1957, and the British Zephyr six with Raymond mays head and triple 1.75 SU's gave up to 168 hp.
Then the 221, 260 and 289's created the AC Cobra and Sunbeam Tiger, and in line sixes were outmoded in a day.
Getting back on topic, a Falcon six might show some promise with Weber DCOE's, DCO, DHLA Dellortos , IDA'S, IDFs, IDF3C's. Slanted, it would do alright and fit well. Sized to suit, with over 12 sq inches of venturi area, (40mm or larger venturis) you'd get 300 hp right away with the right camshaft and intake to port area.
375 hp is possible withthe right venturi sizes
See http://www.shawinspectionsystems.com/pr ... aphics.htm
and http://www.shawinspectionsystems.com/pr ... 56x229.jpg
Same idea as the early LP350/400 Lamborghini heads by Dalara
see http://warnercnr.colostate.edu/~anderson/ECCnew.htm
and http://warnercnr.colostate.edu/~anderson/E6.jpg
The engine had a very small bore, long stroke, and started as a 1971cc engine, but then become a 2.2 liter later on. Single 1-bbl tripower in take of Zenith carbs made good power, canted valve hemi head used stock non cross flow BMW block tooling.
120 hp gross Power was good in the AC Ace and Acea, and 16.5 second quarters and 120 mph top speed. Engine was outmodded by 1957, and the British Zephyr six with Raymond mays head and triple 1.75 SU's gave up to 168 hp.
Then the 221, 260 and 289's created the AC Cobra and Sunbeam Tiger, and in line sixes were outmoded in a day.
Getting back on topic, a Falcon six might show some promise with Weber DCOE's, DCO, DHLA Dellortos , IDA'S, IDFs, IDF3C's. Slanted, it would do alright and fit well. Sized to suit, with over 12 sq inches of venturi area, (40mm or larger venturis) you'd get 300 hp right away with the right camshaft and intake to port area.
375 hp is possible withthe right venturi sizes
Lay it on it's side if you want. That's how they got such a low profile on the Cummins diesel Indy car in 1952.
http://image.dieselpowermag.com/f/10389 ... car_28.jpg
Frankly, I don't think there would be one measurable ounce of performance to be gained in either the intake or exhaust by laying the engine over. All the bad twists, bends, and restrictions are in the head itself and it wouldn't matter if it was upside down, the airflow thru the head would be the same.
http://image.dieselpowermag.com/f/10389 ... car_28.jpg
Frankly, I don't think there would be one measurable ounce of performance to be gained in either the intake or exhaust by laying the engine over. All the bad twists, bends, and restrictions are in the head itself and it wouldn't matter if it was upside down, the airflow thru the head would be the same.
Wasn't the Chrysler slant-six a way to get a stroker in a short box? By putting all the bulky stuff off to the side, level with the valve covers?
I'm with you, Jack. Stick it in an airplane an fly it upside down. Just make sure the gas doesn't dribble out the intake.
I'm with you, Jack. Stick it in an airplane an fly it upside down. Just make sure the gas doesn't dribble out the intake.
A
Anonymous
Guest
The Meyer-Drake Offenhauser 4-banger race motor (the passing of which is still mourned by the very old mechanics who use to work on them) was also laid on its side in the Salih roadsters, which won two 500s in the late '50s with Sam Hanks and Jimmy Bryan . . . Howja like that, trivia fans?!!
I believe the Slant Six was about Detroit stylists wanting lower and lower hoodlines. I'm guessing this insistence on low, flat hoods had as much as anything to do with the loss of interest in the inline six layout, and the development of the V-6. Not the 60degree V-6, either; it was taller than they wanted, too. No, we had to have the lower 90degree V-6, which has to have that bizarre-looking twisted crank to be in balance and not shake; Buick engineers got an SAE award for coming up with that one. Funny, now we're in a styling trend that calls for a "massive' look, at least for pickups and SUVs, with high, rounded hoods and huge grilles. :rolflmao:
In any case, I don't see how 68falconohio gains much of anything by slanting his Ford six, even with a somewhat straightened manifold, without coming up with a new head that gives a straighter shot at the valve, which is what my reference to the Bristol motor was about. Ohio, if you want flow, turbocharge! That's what non-crossflow inlines do best! The exhaust, turbo, and intake are all handily in the same place in the engine well. Admittedly, tilting the engine over gives more room for them.
As to that Bristol motor with the vertical ports, I take it, Dean, that it is the second drawing in the first link. My computer wouldn't connect with the second link, nor could I find anything but a photo of a hemi combustion chamber in the Lambo links (I'll look again). But that one drawing is very interesting, just what I was trying to find, having only heard references to that engine. Thanks much.
I believe the Slant Six was about Detroit stylists wanting lower and lower hoodlines. I'm guessing this insistence on low, flat hoods had as much as anything to do with the loss of interest in the inline six layout, and the development of the V-6. Not the 60degree V-6, either; it was taller than they wanted, too. No, we had to have the lower 90degree V-6, which has to have that bizarre-looking twisted crank to be in balance and not shake; Buick engineers got an SAE award for coming up with that one. Funny, now we're in a styling trend that calls for a "massive' look, at least for pickups and SUVs, with high, rounded hoods and huge grilles. :rolflmao:
In any case, I don't see how 68falconohio gains much of anything by slanting his Ford six, even with a somewhat straightened manifold, without coming up with a new head that gives a straighter shot at the valve, which is what my reference to the Bristol motor was about. Ohio, if you want flow, turbocharge! That's what non-crossflow inlines do best! The exhaust, turbo, and intake are all handily in the same place in the engine well. Admittedly, tilting the engine over gives more room for them.
As to that Bristol motor with the vertical ports, I take it, Dean, that it is the second drawing in the first link. My computer wouldn't connect with the second link, nor could I find anything but a photo of a hemi combustion chamber in the Lambo links (I'll look again). But that one drawing is very interesting, just what I was trying to find, having only heard references to that engine. Thanks much.
