So I have been playing around... here is where I am at now!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Anonymous
  • Start date Start date
Dom, your advise is well taken, and I agree I think there is room for improvement on the valve ajustment, although I have not gotten my kit from Comp yet, and it takes only a few minutes to try the power valve and timng change, if that produces no results, then I will dig further...
 
Well my cam kit has not arrived yet...


I want to (well I need to get the car running for the weekend....)
is there any way I can check the valves without a degree wheel to see if they are opening all the way, since they appear to be closing fine?

I am going to install the valve and jets this afternoon and see how that goes, but I was wondering if I pull the valve cover is there something I can do, to get some idea? maybe not even making an adjustment just yet?

but just to verify if they are open or what?

Thanks
 
Here is something that you can do. Take the valve cover off. get a small measuring stick (paint still will probably work great...buy 6 of them) that you can mark on with a pencil and some type of micrometer. Slowly rotate the engine and on each valve when it is closed. Mark where the top of the valve spring is. Maybe use a small straight edge so you have a good reference for the top of the spring. Then when the valve is fully open, measure the height of the valve spring as well and make a mark on the stick). Measure the distance between marks with a micrometer. Compare that to your cam specs for 1.5:1 rockers.

There are some micrometers that can do this without a marking stick. It would be more accurate, but probably more expensive.

Also, while I was typing this...somethign crossed my mind. Not sure if it would matter, but did you change valve springs when you went with the new cam? The reason I ask is that I know Comp Cams recommends higher compression springs when you go with a higher lift, longer duration cam. To me, if you went with stock, the problem would only occur at higher RPMS (which is not your problem), but I'm not a valvetrain expert.

Slade
 
Funny you should mention springs, Sladeski.

Crow recommend break-in with light springs when the cam is a heavy lift item, or if running double springs with outers only. After that first period, install the proper springs... I doubt this is an issue here, but it seems something little known.

A dial indicator with magnetic base lined up with the pushrod is a good way to measure lift. You can find the base circle, then mark the balancer with fine marks to get the 50 thou points and duration. I'm doing it to a truck this weekend, in order to get a new distributor made with correct curve.

Adam.
 
Addo you bring up a couple of things I have been thinking about lately...
I am going to pick up a micrometer, and take the cover off and see...

I did not do the double springs, instead we got springs and hardware to match the cam card...

also I am running... 1.65:1 rockers...
But I no longer have the spec card on this cam... I am having one faxed to me right now... the machinist lost mine after I picked the engine up and realized I did not have it... it was tossed.

Second, here are some other things I wanted to talk about...

1. I am running a Petronix Flamethrower High Performance coil with this MSD unit, the MSD manual does not list this as a compatible coil, although it is a 40,000volt coil so I figured it would be fine! and it is two years old, has been with this ignition as well as a petronix and points unit! I mention it only because it is one of the older parts on the car, but two years is not that old...

2. I hated finding this... The paintjob on the head was not the greatest to begin with, and I have had some come off in places, but there is a lot of paint coming off above the port divider I had installed, and it is peeling around the intake, and the two bolts I put in the two small top ports on the head, where the divider is attached... peeling there too...
<img src=http://www.image-hosting.net/images/messageboard/jbowhall/DSCN0491.jpg>
<img src=http://www.image-hosting.net/images/messageboard/jbowhall/DSCN0494.jpg>
<img src=http://www.image-hosting.net/images/messageboard/jbowhall/DSCN0502.jpg>

You will see some oil in the valley down there, that was WD40 I was using to check for leaks, I got a little carried away and cooked some in there while the engine was running...

could this be from the extreme heat, and a bad paintjob... or do I have a leaking header? and if so, would that cause some of the engine trouble I have been having? it does not sound like there is a leak, it just gets really hot there for some reason... I have put a hose down there with one end in my ear and I hear no hissing, but I thought I would mention it.
 
Jimbo, You can run a pertronix ignition and/or coil with MSD. If you'd like I can see if I can find my instructions. Basically, you hook it up like a regular coil to MSD. Mine works great.

The paint looks like some really hot areas by the exhaust, or your machinist didn't use true high temp paint and instead used the cheapo stuff from Autozone. The #3/4 exhaust port gets real hot. I checked it once with a thermal imager. I should have taken a picture. It's really neat seeing the heat profile of the engine. but #3/4 was easily 100-200 degrees hotter then any other port. So I think it is a combination of bad paint and hot temps.

Slade
 
Yeah, I think it is just bad paint, thought it was worth asking though... I am looking for any and all signs of trouble...

I installed the power valve and 58 jets tonight, but it is too late to start it up and tweak it now, in the morning I am planning on getting this thing figured out...

I bought a digital micrometer, I am going to measure the valves and see what is up!

Jimbo
 
It's not so much the paint as the prep! Those areas are a bear to clean and paint. I use thinners in my airbrush to sluice it clean at 100 pounds. You have what appears to be a substrate of rust/dust down there, plus maybe a few greasy fingerprints.

Still, looks like it got warm.
 
Well it is a little better...

I installed the 6.5 power valve, and the 58 jets this morning.
I then tuned it down to 800 rpms, 16 degrees initial timing, and evened out the air/fuel mixture, I also re-checked the float setting, although it is still just below the site hole, so it seems fine..

and things are a little better...
it idles much better, 12 inches of vacume at the above setting...
still has a lope, but it is different, this does not shake the car, it is sound only... no vibration.

The pedal still feels strong as ever, a lot of power, and it is smooth... but there is a little stumble on very light throttle in the bottom of a gear range... I think the 58 might be a tad too small...

it may be that I need to try the 61/4.5 power valve setup first... or that I need a jet between 61-58... which I do not have, I am going to run this on these new plugs for a week and see how they look...

I am also thinking about plugging and eliminating the PCV valve, I think it may be causing more trouble than it is worth...

Once the Comp Cam kit arrives I will take a day next week and tear it down some and check the valves...

but it sounds better, is not smoking, and was running cooler as it is right now! we will see!
 
take the hose off the PVC valve and see if there is any oil in it or the PVC valve it self
 
Well I think I better update you all on the progress or lack there of...

I installed the 6.5 power valve and 58 jets over the weekend.
I drive it about 4 miles yesterday... today I put a short highway run on it to see what was up...

Here is what I noted.
This morning... was hard to start cold, applied half choke and got it running warmed up and opened the choke all the way, idle in driveway was OK, going out the driveway it stalled, was a cold and rainy morning...
Started and down the road stalled, so I opened the idle mixture screws 1/4 turn and took the rpm from 850 to 950 which kept it running and it was OK, still have a flat spot with light throttle and sluggish, surges betweek 1900-2600 rpms.
Tonight, coming home, ran pretty good at the above setting, lots of flat throttle and surge and bucking on the highway...
Really bad smell almost like burning, and fine smoke in the interior (I still have a couple of open spots on the firewall!)


My thoughts...

1. The 58 jets are too small, I already thought this in the above post.
going to swap back the 61 jets for now, with the 6.5 power valve... I do get good throttle up the hills, I think the flat spot and the surge is the jets...
2. plugs looked better, still some oil, but I am thinking this is coming from the PCV valve.. I also changed the PCV valve and went to the stock valve, mine was lighter... but there is already oil in the valve after only three runs in the car... I need to figure out what to do to keep oil out of the valve... and maybe I should just lose it altogether? I am beginning to think the oil is definitely working up the valve, I will pull the hose once it cools and check the carb end for oil.
3. I am beginning to think that there may be a blown header gasket on the number 4/5 ports in the spot above right below the manifold.. it smells like exhaust leaking, it is the smoke I am trying to find now... and there is a high pitch metal sound when I pull up alongside another car, wall, bridge... etc... could that cause some of the trouble I am having? exhaust leak? Not sure about the sound, you cannot hear it from over the engine, and you cannot hear it inside or behind, only next to the car? Weird?

anyway, I am waiting for it to cool, then I will swap the jets back, wish I had a set of 59 and 60 jets... will get some but I do not have them now!

Oh well thought I would post these finds... still have not checked the valves.. I got the card today.... I am getting it scanned and will post it later!

J.
 
WELL IT IS CONFIRMED... I have oil the the carb base.

I pulled the PCV hose from the carb base and the tip has a lovely bead of new oil in there... guess I know now where the smoke is coming from...

For now I am plugging the PCV system off. I will cap the valve and this port, until I can figure a way to run this and not suck up oil.


I am also putting the 61's back in and running it for a few days to re-check the plugs now that I can eliminate the oil problem...

this sucks, means I have been burning oil through there since I first fired it up!

:cry:
 
Hey Jimbo, do you have any resent pictures of the vehicle? It sounds like everything is starting to shape up for you. Besides, some of us need a little pre-winter inspiration, before the blues set in. :D
 
I am installing a TCP replica strut-tower setup this weekend... look for pics of the car then... as for the engine, it still looks like the one under in my Sig!
 
Jimbo,

Be careful blocking off the PCV. Without some kind of positive crankcase ventilation (either a PCV or a road draft tube) you could end up with blow by from your oil filler cap or worse, blown gaskets & seals. :wink: Keep an eye on your oil presure and let us know if your vacume has increased.
 
I am all for running the PCV system, but I am not sure how to keep the oil out.... obviously it is pulling enough oil through to fill a new valve in a short drive...

I am going to go into the store in the morning and see if I can find one that has some type of filter on it? or something... I guess the real problem is this valve cover? or the new oil style rockers... but I am aware of the dangers running without one, not sure how to solve this... I am thinking about it.

I really think this is the source of a lot of problems for me...
is it also possible that oil from this line may have worked it's way into any of the carb circuits? or does that vent just dump out under the throttle plates?
 
Jimbo:Re:the paint problem. Sounds like a prep problem not a paint problem.Most paint failures are a result of poorly or improperly done preps not "bad" paint. Make the "paint guy" redo it. When we accept the unacceptable...it is(acceptable)!!! Hopefully the paint was done by a different guy than the build as that might be the problem if it wasn't. Glad to see you're still at it. DETERMINATION!!! This experience of yours is good for all of us that are following it. Well done!!! Hank :)
 
If anyone following this saga(no disrespect meant Jimbo) can explain why vehicle photos are covering reply texts and how to rid myself of the problem I'd appreeciate it. Thanks :x
 
Jimbo65":3lh4whqd said:
I really think this is the source of a lot of problems for me...
is it also possible that oil from this line may have worked it's way into any of the carb circuits? or does that vent just dump out under the throttle plates?
Click to expand...
If you have the PCV going into one of the vacuum sources near the bottom of the carb (and the other to the vacuum advance) I believe it’s hooked up correct. You could put it in at the carb spacer, but I doubt that would make much of a difference. I think you’re on the right track with the valve cover and oiling system. It might cause fouling of the spark plugs too. What if you had a double baffle under the PCV, one going in each direction? Of course this would require some fabrication and you would have to watch the valve clearance but it might work.
 
Don may well be on the right track. Does your valve cover have a baffle under the PCV valve? If not, the oil will be sucked up into the PCV valve. :shock:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

xavier296
All Small Six Ignition Timing Map
Replies
5
Views
369
xavier296
xavier296
A
All Small Six Low throttle fuel flow
Replies
11
Views
543
drag-200stang
drag-200stang
A
All Small Six Chasing vacuum leaks.. solved ..but now overheating.
2
Replies
24
Views
981
sixtseventwo4d
S
E
All Small Six 250 Warm start info?
Replies
7
Views
249
edcom
E
P
All Small Six O2 location and headers
Replies
2
Views
333
DON
DON
Back
Top