starter motor mystery
- Thread starter f2fordman
- Start date
2 long bolts on the front (brush) end of the starter will need to be unscrewed. There may be a support bracket held on by one of the pan bolts which will need to be removed. Leave the long bolts in the starter as you remove it. The H series (1947 to 1951) uses a 9 (Nine) tooth starter bendix gear, make sure your starter has this as the 10 tooth v/8 gear is interchangeable but will not corrrectly engage the 6 ring gear and will eventually shove the ring gear forward, especially when run on 12 volts. The starters themselves, less the bendix, are totally interchangeable. Be careful with the starter when taking it out that the three sections of the starter (2 end plates and the center section do not separate. Concentrate your force when removing it on the end section closest to the bell housing (rear). What is the problem with your starter? Also be careful with the bolt holding the starter cable. It can turn and short out if the insulator washer is broken or break the soldered connection to the field coils inside the housing. The bolt on some of the older starters can be made of copper which is real easy to strip the threads off on. Some times there are steel washers which corrode on both sides of the cable connection. Dont use them. Use stainless or brass washers if you think you must have them. Good luck
thanks, flatford6, for your response. yesterday i was out for a drive in my f2. suddenly the engine died. sounded like electrical. no coughing or sputtering like fuel. just dead. i tried the starter. nothing. so i thought generator problem or something like that. my wife towed me home and i put my slow charger on the bat last night. was surprised when the light on the charger showed green this morning. it usually take 24 hrs or more to bring up my 6v bat when it's dead. tried the starter. nothing. jumped from the bat to the starter. nothing. so i crawled under the truck to pull the starter to check the brushes, etc. hmmm... no flange on the starter. no bracket of any kind either. only the two end bolts on the motor. so i loostened the two end bolts and pulled. out came the outer end plate and case. the inner end plate and armature are still firmly attached to the engine. oops. i've pulled and gently tapped the end plate with a ball peen with no luck. the armature does not move. i sprayed the end plate with penetrating oil and i'll leave it over night. and i still don't know why the engine died. i still don't understand how the starter could be secured to the engine without a flange or bracket. so that's my story. any further help will be greatly appreciated. i'm retired and a daily drive in my wonderful truck keeps my juices flowing. again, i miss my truck.
ChuckinNH
Active member
It sounds like you are dealing with some corrosion at the interface of the starter and flywheel housing. The starter on the flat motors, both 6s and V8s fit into a hole in the flywheel housing. The 2 long bolts hole the starter together as well as secure it to the housing. Keep coaxing the starter off with penetrating oil and tapping. You should be able to pop it off. Unless you are familiar with the reassembly of the motor I would recommend taking the pieces to a reputable local shop for rebuilding. With the way you described the truck died I would look for a bad electrical connection. Take a look at all your cable connections and all grounds.
The starter drive and the ring gear can wedge together if one or both of them are worn. Rocking the vehicle back and forth with the trans in high gear can sometimes cause them to pop loose. The starter gear end housing only enters the bell housing plate about 1/8th inch so it can't get to stuck. Actually, with the starter apart like it is, you might be able to loosen the bendix from the ring gear by turning the armature in the opposite direction from its usual rotation. This would back the bendix gear out of the ring gear.
The dead electrical system could be caused by a bad ground between the positive pole and the engine as everything went dead at the same time. Also check the current flow in and out of the solenoid. I would check all this with a continuity tester before any more tinkering with the starter. Actually these old generator systems can run without a battery once started.
The dead electrical system could be caused by a bad ground between the positive pole and the engine as everything went dead at the same time. Also check the current flow in and out of the solenoid. I would check all this with a continuity tester before any more tinkering with the starter. Actually these old generator systems can run without a battery once started.
With the trans in neutral can the engine be turned over from the front pulley? If not the starter gear is probably wedged into the ring gear. They can get really stuck. The starter gear is mounted on a thread on the starter shaft and when the two gears wedge together the thread actually pulls the starter toward the bell housing mounting plate. They can be very tight. Try turning the engine over by hand, that is the first test.
hey, flatford6. i just got home from a trip to town. went out to the truck, put the tranny in fourth, rocked her once, and out the starter popped! you are defiinately on my christmas card list. thankyou, friend. so i'll take your advice and take the pieces to town and let a pro put her together. meanwhile, time for some detective work with my multimeter. my thanks to all of you for the input. it's nice to know that there's help out there. the guys at autozone are.....well.....less experienced than you guys at the fine art of industrial revolution engine shade tree wrenching.
The fact that the starter locked in means that there is a wear problem with the starter gear or the ring gear. The locking problem will occur again for sure. The starter gear can be fixed by replacement, though you must use the 9 tooth one which can be hard to find. The ring gear on the 6 has 114 teeth instead of the 112 on the v8 gear. The 114 tooth ring gear is also hard to find new. The six and v8 ring gears do not interchange off their respective flywheels. On a v8, the problem of a worn ring gear may be solved by buying a gear drive starter where the starter gear engages the ring gear from the front, not the rear as the stock starter gear does. This will only work if the teeth on the ring gear are worn very little on the front. I don,t know if any manufacturer makes a gear drive starter with the 9 tooth drive gear. The ring gear on a 6 will wear in only 3 places of 5 to 7 teeth each because the engine will stop against compression when shut off. (A v8 will have 4 such wear places).
Daves55Courier
Well-known member
I would bet that if you do need a ring gear or possibly a new starter drive, you could probably get them from Joblot automotive in Queens Village, NY. They have a lot of engine & transmission parts there.
Also, although you already got the end plate out, isn't there a pop-out cap at the back of the bell housing (shaped exactly like a front wheel bearing dust cover). Most manual transmission bellhousings had them. You could have popped that out with a screwdriver and then stuck the wood end of a hammer in the hole and popped the end plate out from the backside.
Just a thought.
BTW, Joblot Automotive has a website and a toll-free parts order phone number. They issue catalogs for Antique Fords from flatheads to 60's era cars and trucks.
Also, although you already got the end plate out, isn't there a pop-out cap at the back of the bell housing (shaped exactly like a front wheel bearing dust cover). Most manual transmission bellhousings had them. You could have popped that out with a screwdriver and then stuck the wood end of a hammer in the hole and popped the end plate out from the backside.
Just a thought.
BTW, Joblot Automotive has a website and a toll-free parts order phone number. They issue catalogs for Antique Fords from flatheads to 60's era cars and trucks.
well, here's the latest update:
joblot didn't have what i need. i tried egge machine and they told me that they sold all their ring gears to a guy named Al in wisconsin. al turns out to be AL'S FLYWHEEL GEARS, (715) 677-3809. he's got nothing but thousands of ring gears and motor drives. and, yes, he has several 114 tooth gears. so, thanks to you all for your help. i'll keep you posted and i'm sure that i'll have more (stupid) questions in the future. bye for now.
joblot didn't have what i need. i tried egge machine and they told me that they sold all their ring gears to a guy named Al in wisconsin. al turns out to be AL'S FLYWHEEL GEARS, (715) 677-3809. he's got nothing but thousands of ring gears and motor drives. and, yes, he has several 114 tooth gears. so, thanks to you all for your help. i'll keep you posted and i'm sure that i'll have more (stupid) questions in the future. bye for now.
