200ci Can anyone recomend a 2 barell carburator with adapter kit for my 200 inline 6 cylinder mustang

[Frank]

Jeff,
What a great and informative discussion. I wish I had found this earlier so I could pipe up about my experience with the 38/38 on the 200 in my 66 Mustang that installed in September of this year.

Did you manage to get the Clifford or Redline Weber kit?

I installed the Redline Weber 38/38 kit. It came brand new packed in a box, with the non-running car and also an EBay header in another box. My plan was to get the car running with the stock engine and then add both the header and carb but that was not to be had, due to a spun bearing and scuffed cylinders. When I rebuilt the engine, I installed a performance cam from Clay Smith with aftermarket pistons so it’s no longer stock but it isn’t a radical build.

Because mine came with the Load-a-matic distributor, I installed a aftermarket billet HEI distributor with remote coil that looks about the same size as the OEM distributor and coil. I got it from an eBay store called SwapMeetParts1. They also have a website and a Facebook page. I’ve had emails with the owner there and he was very responsive. I connected the coil positive to a relay with +12v and ignored the factory ignition coil wire because it is on a resistor and provides about +8v which isn’t adequate.

The Weber carb is very sensitive to fuel pressure so the carb kit comes with a fuel pressure regulator, preset to about 3lbs. This is a critical part of the install and without it, the install will fail. I mounted mine to the firewall with a pair of nut-serts (rivet nuts). Factory fuel line cut and rubber hose to fuel pressure regulator, then regulator to the carb.

I took the PCV line to a remote catch can and then to the vacuum port on the log below the carb adapter. In my opinion, it’s a fairly important detail as I don’t think just having a breather is adequate for the crank case pressure that these engines can produce.

I had a few conversations with Larry Millwee at 6=8 Clifford Performance to help with the carb linkage. Otherwise with the kit and adapters, it was a very simple install. I did “port match” the gaskets to the openings by trimming them to match with a sharp knife and I used lock-tite on my carb studs. Aside from that, it bolted on without any special requirements.

For exhaust, I have my 6 into 2 EBay header hooked to a Y-pipe with 2-1/2” single to a fairly unrestricted muffler. I put a heat shield blanket over my starter to protect it from the heat from the header pipes. I haven’t experienced any heat soak issues but then again, I haven’t had it out in peak summer heat yet.

My experience
This is my experience with the new/rebuilt engine, header, carb, distributor installed with a guess where around 8 to 10 degrees of advance would be a piston 1 TDC: I turned the key and it fired right up without a hint of hesitation. I adjusted the idle speed and the car was drivable. It was running a bit on the rich side at idle, for sure and my timing wasn’t dialed in but it was passable and drivable.

Timing
The HEI distributor I bought has up to 10 degrees vacuum advance, adjusted with an allen key in the advance diaphragm and it has up to 14 degrees mechanical advance at various RPM’s, adjusted with a sleeve and springs. It’s pretty simple to adjust but I’m not sure what the suggested vacuum and mechanical advance curve would be for a stock engine. I’m still fine tuning my timing but it still runs well and works well on the highway and just cruising around town.

Setting the Idle mix
The Clifford 38/38 should come preset for the inline 6 200 but mine needed some adjustments because of the larger initial advance timing I’m running. It came with a box of jets and had #55 idle circuit jets installed. These are probably suitable for a stock engine. Idle mixture is adjusted on the front and back of the carb and should be the same for each mixture screw. There is a Weber setup page somewhere that explains how to do the mixture adjustments and it’s very simple to do. My carb had different adjustments on the mixture screws so I think the previous owner must have messed with them. It was very simple to dial it in.

Setting the electric choke
The 38/38 I have has an electric choke. It’s very simple and mine was pretty much good to go out of the box. I provided 12v ignition from the same source as the ignition coil and adjusted the high idle speed screw which is on the drivers side of the carb. There are plenty of EBay videos showing how to set it up. Now when I start the car from cold, I depress the gas pedal to prime the carb and set high idle, crank the engine and it starts right up, no questions asked. When I feel it’s warmed up, I give it a blip on the throttle and it settles to low idle.

General drivability
I’m in Canada on the west coast where winter is wet and miserable and this car is my project car so I don’t depend on it as a daily driver. If I were in Southern California or Arizona, I’d drive it every day, everywhere. As it is, I was driving if through the end of Sumer and through the fall but not for the last month. We had a sunny dry day yesterday, so I had it out then too. With this setup, it is trouble free. It starts, stops, goes around corners without a hint of trouble and seems not bad on fuel economy. it also seems fine just cruising at low RPM or ripping it up. I’m sure it would be even better if I had milled the log and opened it up to accept the mounting plate without the adapter (funnel) but in terms of a bolt on upgrade, I can’t imagine a better experience.

Cheers,
Andrew

EXCELLENT! both your results and the write up. Thanks.

Richer than expected may be altitude also. 3% richer every 1000'.

What are the cam specs on your C.S. cam?

 

[awasson]

EXCELLENT! both your results and the write up. Thanks.

Richer than expected may be altitude also. 3% richer every 1000'.

What are the cam specs on your C.S. cam?

Hi Frank,
I think it was richer when I first got it going due to the idle mixture settings being off from the stock Redline/Clifford settings and maybe because the ignition timing I had set originally wasn't getting in front of the fuel to ignite. It seems pretty darn good right now.

Were on the coast so pretty close to sea level. According to the survey we had done when we bought our home, 39' above sea level. I'll be installing an AFR gauge on it to see what's really going on at some point but it's got to be close to correct.

I've got the Clay Smith H-6474-0-B (Part number 07-018). The cam card is slightly different for the centerline timing events (opening and closing) than the default advertised specs. This is the cam card that came with it:

 

[jcom4179]

EXCELLENT! both your results and the write up. Thanks.

Richer than expected may be altitude also. 3% richer every 1000'.

What are the cam specs on your C.S. cam?

Hey Andrew, sounds like you've been busy. That's alot of performance upgrades. I'm going to put the 38/38 on before the spring. You bought yours from Clifford? There a couple of hundred dollars more than other places I checked, but it's probably worth it because they know how to jet and tune them. Are you happy with the, I think the name is HEI distributor? If so please let me know the model number. I see those everywhere and there very affordable.
Well congrats on finishing all that work.
Thanks for the uodate
Jeff

 

[awasson]

Hey Jeff,
I bought the distributor from an EBay shop called SwapmeetParts1. The one I bought is called “Small Cap FORD INLINE 6 170 200 250 RED HEI Distributor + 45K Coil + USA WIRES”. I won’t link to it because links to EBay tend to break over time.

What I like about this particular distributor compared to other aftermarket EBay or Amazon distributors is that it doesn’t seem to have the oil seal issue other have been reported to have. I think there is an oil gallery that oils the top end right around where the distributor shaft meets the cam gear and as a result, some of the aftermarket distributors leak into the distributor cap. This one doesn’t appear to have that problem.

I would have probably picked up the carb separately myself, if it was up to me but I’m glad I had the kit. It was a brand new Redline kit, never installed and it came with the car. Everything I needed was in the box and there were no spare parts when I was done. It couldn’t have been simpler to install. The only thing that was tricky was setting up the linkage.

 

[awasson]

Here’s a photo of the distributor side

 

[jcom4179]

Hey Jeff,
I bought the distributor from an EBay shop called SwapmeetParts1. The one I bought is called “Small Cap FORD INLINE 6 170 200 250 RED HEI Distributor + 45K Coil + USA WIRES”. I won’t link to it because links to EBay tend to break over time.

What I like about this particular distributor compared to other aftermarket EBay or Amazon distributors is that it doesn’t seem to have the oil seal issue other have been reported to have. I think there is an oil gallery that oils the top end right around where the distributor shaft meets the cam gear and as a result, some of the aftermarket distributors leak into the distributor cap. This one doesn’t appear to have that problem.

I would have probably picked up the carb separately myself, if it was up to me but I’m glad I had the kit. It was a brand new Redline kit, never installed and it came with the car. Everything I needed was in the box and there were no spare parts when I was done. It couldn’t have been simpler to install. The only thing that was tricky was setting up the linkage.

View attachment 24241

Thanks for the info on the distributer, I'll definitely check it out. So the 38 weber came from redline? If it did was the carb jetted for the 200 inline 6? I was planning to buy one from them or Clifford. Redlines price was about $200 less than Clifford. Great Pic of the motor, it looks very clean and professional, " Nice Job"
Thanks again for the info
Jeff

 

[awasson]

Thanks for the info on the distributer, I'll definitely check it out. So the 38 weber came from redline? If it did was the carb jetted for the 200 inline 6? I was planning to buy one from them or Clifford. Redlines price was about $200 less than Clifford. Great Pic of the motor, it looks very clean and professional, " Nice Job"
Thanks again for the info
Jeff

Hey Jeff,
Yes, the carb was kitted specifically for the Ford Inline-6 200 CI engine. It came with a piece of threaded rod and two ball and socket fittings to go between the carb and factory linkage. It came with the fuel regulator and the 2-piece adapter and studs and the air filter and housing. It came with all mounting hardware. It was perfectly complete without any extras to confuse you like a universal kit often does.

I don’t know what the relationship is between Clifford and Redline. The box had both Clifford and Redline marketing on it as does the fancy billet fuel pressure regulator. The paperwork in the box had an instruction sheet to contact Larry at Clifford before messing with the carb internals but it also came with a jet kit for the mains and idle jets. I attached the best photo I have of the box. I’m pretty sure I tossed the box a week or two ago.

 

[jcom4179]

Hey Jeff,
Yes, the carb was kitted specifically for the Ford Inline-6 200 CI engine. It came with a piece of threaded rod and two ball and socket fittings to go between the carb and factory linkage. It came with the fuel regulator and the 2-piece adapter and studs and the air filter and housing. It came with all mounting hardware. It was perfectly complete without any extras to confuse you like a universal kit often does.

I don’t know what the relationship is between Clifford and Redline. The box had both Clifford and Redline marketing on it as does the fancy billet fuel pressure regulator. The paperwork in the box had an instruction sheet to contact Larry at Clifford before messing with the carb internals but it also came with a jet kit for the mains and idle jets. I attached the best photo I have of the box. I’m pretty sure I tossed the box a week or two ago.

View attachment 24243

Hey Andrew, I'll give them a call about the 38 weber carb kit. I just checked out the distributer on ebay. They make a few different hei distributors for the 200 ford inline 6. There was one with an internal 65000v coil for $159 and a few with the 45000v external coil for between $179 and $240. I messaged the seller to ask which would be best performance wise. I know you got one of the distributors with the external coil. I'll do some research on which distributor would be best for the ford 200, as well as I'm sure the seller will get back to me.
Thanks again for sharing the info
Jeff

 

[Frank]

Hi Frank,
I think it was richer when I first got it going due to the idle mixture settings being off from the stock Redline/Clifford settings and maybe because the ignition timing I had set originally wasn't getting in front of the fuel to ignite. It seems pretty darn good right now.

Were on the coast so pretty close to sea level. According to the survey we had done when we bought our home, 39' above sea level. I'll be installing an AFR gauge on it to see what's really going on at some point but it's got to be close to correct.

I've got the Clay Smith H-6474-0-B (Part number 07-018). The cam card is slightly different for the centerline timing events (opening and closing) than the default advertised specs. This is the cam card that came with it:

View attachment 24239

The distributor you located has perked my interest: you say both the vacuum AND centrifugal advance are tunable? The issue with the Chevy-based HEI distributor I had ina 300 was impossible accurate tuning of the centrifugal. Trying to find matching weights and springs for a Summit brand unit- never got it right, finally pulled it for a Ford DS2 unit.

Nice cam duration! That's a well mannered blend of good idle but noticeable, and much improved midrange torque.

 

[awasson]

The distributor you located has perked my interest: you say both the vacuum AND centrifugal advance are tunable? The issue with the Chevy-based HEI distributor I had ina 300 was impossible accurate tuning of the centrifugal. Trying to find matching weights and springs for a Summit brand unit- never got it right, finally pulled it for a Ford DS2 unit.

Nice cam duration! That's a well mannered blend of good idle but noticeable, and much improved midrange torque.

Hey Frank,
Yes the vacuum advance is tunable from zero to +10 with an Allen key in the diaphragm and it uses springs and bushings to adjust the RPM when it comes on and max advance. I’ll have to pull out the docs to see what the minimum to maximum is. I’ll see if I can find/scan it later today.

 

[awasson]

Hey Andrew, I'll give them a call about the 38 weber carb kit. I just checked out the distributer on ebay. They make a few different hei distributors for the 200 ford inline 6. There was one with an internal 65000v coil for $159 and a few with the 45000v external coil for between $179 and $240. I messaged the seller to ask which would be best performance wise. I know you got one of the distributors with the external coil. I'll do some research on which distributor would be best for the ford 200, as well as I'm sure the seller will get back to me.
Thanks again for sharing the info
Jeff

Hey Jeff,
Yes, I decided to go with the small cap and remote coil with wires so that it resembled the OEM size and shape. It’s a more expensive kit but esthetically it was what I was looking for. I’m also running NGK Iridium plugs. More expensive but are supposed to last longer.

 

[Frank]

Hey Frank,
Yes the vacuum advance is tunable from zero to +10 with an Allen key in the diaphragm and it uses springs and bushings to adjust the RPM when it comes on and max advance. I’ll have to pull out the docs to see what the minimum to maximum is. I’ll see if I can find/scan it later today.

Did it come with springs/bushings, or a separate purchase?

 

[jcom4179]

Hey Jeff,
Yes, I decided to go with the small cap and remote coil with wires so that it resembled the OEM size and shape. It’s a more expensive kit but esthetically it was what I was looking for. I’m also running NGK Iridium plugs. More expensive but are supposed to last longer.

Hey Andrew, I just wanted to make sure it wasn't for better performance. The seller told me some people have issues with the larger distributor cap fitting, but if the larger one will fit there is no difference in performance between the 2. I also decided to go with the iridium plugs. I read it makes a big difference with a bigger more powerful spark.
Thanks for getting back to me
Jeff

 

[awasson]

Did it come with springs/bushings, or a separate purchase?

Hi Frank. It came with the springs and bushings. It came with everything you'd need. I scanned the two pages that provide info on curving the the mechanical advance. I was incorrect about the mechanical advance; it's adjustable from +12° to +18°. The Vacuum advance is adjustable up to +10°

 

[awasson]

Hey Andrew, I just wanted to make sure it wasn't for better performance. The seller told me some people have issues with the larger distributor cap fitting, but if the larger one will fit there is no difference in performance between the 2. I also decided to go with the iridium plugs. I read it makes a big difference with a bigger more powerful spark.
Thanks for getting back to me
Jeff

Hi Jeff,
I think the large cap HEI with the built in coil has a higher output coil than the one I chose. For our use, there's not going to be a difference though. Either one will work just fine as long as there is adequate clearance.

I think it's going to be a similar size and shape to the DUI distributors and I haven't heard anyone complain about clearance problems with those.

Cheers,
Andrew

 

[jcom4179]

Hi Jeff,
I think the large cap HEI with the built in coil has a higher output coil than the one I chose. For our use, there's not going to be a difference though. Either one will work just fine as long as there is adequate clearance.

I think it's going to be a similar size and shape to the DUI distributors and I haven't heard anyone complain about clearance problems with those.

Cheers,
Andrew

Hey Andrew, yes there's plenty of people that I've talked to that love the DUI, but there by no means cheap. That's good to know that the larger HEI is about the same size. I checked out the 1v to 2v weber 38/38 swap kit on Top End Racing. I emailed back and forth with a representative, I was asking him if they swap out the jets for the 200 inline 6 and I'm not sure if I misunderstood him but he said to just install the Weber straight from the box, then fine tune it and that the jets are 90 percent tuned. I emailed him back and explained that the jets definitely need to be swapped out for the 200 inline 6 jets. Unfortunately by the time my email was sent the place was closed. I know I'm right about swapping out the jets, I just wanted to be 200 percent sure so I figured I'd run it by you.
Thanks Andrew
Jeff

 

[awasson]

Hi Jeff,
I’m not familiar with the 1v to 2v weber 38/38 swap kit on Top End Racing but according to the docs in the Redline kit I have they are pretty clear that this is a bolt on Ford 200 inline 6 kit and that it should be bolt on and go. There isn’t a lot of paper work with it but the main sheet says, don’t rejet the carb before contacting Larry at Clifford Performance first.

My guess is that for the vast majority of people with Ford 200 inline-6 engines, it is a bolt on and go carb. For those with high compression and radical cam profiles, it’ll want some fiddling but those guys aren’t going to be worried about that, they’ll have a jet kit, wide band air/fuel gauges and the know how to dial it in.

I changed the idle jets on mine. I changed out the #55 jets and put in #60’s. They’re at the front and back of the carb and just require a slotted screw driver. Simple stuff. I’ve had the 55’s and 60’s in and out half a dozen times and adjusted the idle air/fuel mix a bunch of times to figure out what was best. On my engine the #60’s made a noticeable difference but that’s probably a function of the camshaft and the high initial timing + the curve of the distributor.

I haven’t changed the mains or the air correctors. I’ll want an AFR Gauge before getting into the weeds of that. Besides, it runs really well as it is.

 

[jcom4179]

Hi Jeff,
I’m not familiar with the 1v to 2v weber 38/38 swap kit on Top End Racing but according to the docs in the Redline kit I have they are pretty clear that this is a bolt on Ford 200 inline 6 kit and that it should be bolt on and go. There isn’t a lot of paper work with it but the main sheet says, don’t rejet the carb before contacting Larry at Clifford Performance first.

My guess is that for the vast majority of people with Ford 200 inline-6 engines, it is a bolt on and go carb. For those with high compression and radical cam profiles, it’ll want some fiddling but those guys aren’t going to be worried about that, they’ll have a jet kit, wide band air/fuel gauges and the know how to dial it in.

I changed the idle jets on mine. I changed out the #55 jets and put in #60’s. They’re at the front and back of the carb and just require a slotted screw driver. Simple stuff. I’ve had the 55’s and 60’s in and out half a dozen times and adjusted the idle air/fuel mix a bunch of times to figure out what was best. On my engine the #60’s made a noticeable difference but that’s probably a function of the camshaft and the high initial timing + the curve of the distributor.

I haven’t changed the mains or the air correctors. I’ll want an AFR Gauge before getting into the weeds of that. Besides, it runs really well as it is.

Hey Andrew, I'm glad I ran that by you. So your carburator came with the manufacturers jets and because you put in a performance cam in your motor you only had to swap out 2 jets? I read on the Clifford website that if you buy a 38 weber they pre install the proper jets made for the 200 inline 6. Frank sent me the link and told me that's the great thing about Clifford is they reject the carburator, so all you have to do is fine tune it. If you say yours came with none of the jets swapped out I have no reason to doubt you. That just tosses out every YouTube video and what everyone on this site has told me. Are you 100 percent sure it came with all the factory jets, if so that rep knew what he was talking about. From my research that carburator was stock built for a 4 cylinder and that's why the jets needed to be swapped out for the bigger inline 6. Just double check your information and if what you say is accurate then, "Dam". When you get a chance please double check your info and let me know
Thanks man
Jeff

 

[awasson]

Hey Andrew, I'm glad I ran that by you. So your carburator came with the manufacturers jets and because you put in a performance cam in your motor you only had to swap out 2 jets? I read on the Clifford website that if you buy a 38 weber they pre install the proper jets made for the 200 inline 6. Frank sent me the link and told me that's the great thing about Clifford is they reject the carburator, so all you have to do is fine tune it. If you say yours came with none of the jets swapped out I have no reason to doubt you. That just tosses out every YouTube video and what everyone on this site has told me. Are you 100 percent sure it came with all the factory jets, if so that rep knew what he was talking about. From my research that carburator was stock built for a 4 cylinder and that's why the jets needed to be swapped out for the bigger inline 6. Just double check your information and if what you say is accurate then, "Dam". When you get a chance please double check your info and let me know
Thanks man
Jeff

Hey Jeff,
Yes the Weber down draft carbs have been swapped onto thousands of different engines over the years. I swapped one from a Cortina 1600 engine to my 2 liter BMW a lifetime ago and it just worked after adjusting the idle mixture. It was a major upgrade from the factory carb. They were kind of the go-to carb for small engines back in the day.

If I understand the Clifford/Redline kits correctly, they sell them for a bunch of different engines and the one they sell for the Ford 200 is specific for the Ford 200. I think they jet them specifically to work with the engine the kit is sold for. I would check with them to be sure. I’m just speaking from the experience I had with mine.

Yes, I only needed to change the idle jets from #55 to #60 and adjust the idle mixture. Oh, and the idle speed screw which I think is about 3/4 of a turn in now.

If you get a 38/38, you will more than likely need to fine tune the idle mixture adjustments. That’s pretty typical for a carburetor. The stock settings will get you into the ball park but depending on your engine or things like altitude, you’ll need to fine tune.

Here is a good setup description. That page only talks about one idle mixture screw so don’t forget there are two idle mixture screws because the 38/38 is a 2-barrel carb: http://www.redlineweber.com/html/Tech/38_dgas_tunning.htm

Andrew

 

[Kritas]

I'm running a 38, but have been doing metal work and getting ready for paint vs. driving the car so I have not experimented with jetting. I'd be interested to know what jets, emulsion tubes and settings that others are using.