All Small Six The 'Ideal' 200 Built By Committee

[1966Mustang]

• I picked up a 1978 200 a while ago, for no other purpose other than I was bored and needed a road-trip to New Jersey.
• The head has been cleaned and no cracks found. It is sitting on a shelf, partially pocket ported ... (for sale soon)
• The block has not been inspected yet. It is sitting on an engine stand. Assume it's good and can be bored.
• Also assume it's going in my 65 Mustang Coupe. My HP goal is... about 400ish
• Reply with your suggestions/ideas on the Carb/EFI, Ignition, Pistons, Cam, AL Head?, Tranny, Reardiff, Exhaust, Turbo???
• Upvote the replies you like, downvote the ones you don't (up/down arrows on the right of the replies).
• Let's have some fun with this!

As 'decisions' are made, they'll be posted here, subject to change.

Added Google Sheet Feb 9, 2020 for P/Ns and Purchasing Dept. Progress...

200 Built By Committee

BOM Seq,Order By Date,Part Desc,Part Num,Vendor,SuggestedBy,ItemURL,Notes,Contact,Email,QuoteNum,QuoteDate,QtyOrdered,Price,Total,Date Ordered,Date Received,Date Delta Days 10,BLOCK RELATED 10.1,200CID Block D8BE,D8BE,Craigslist...,Craigslist Bought,1,$80.00,$80.00 10.11,3/1/2021,Dual Roller Tim...

docs.google.com

Mostly Decided:

1. Holley Super Sniper 4150 650HP PART# PART# 550-520 - https://www.holley.com/products/fue...sniper_efi/sniper_4bbl_tbi_kits/parts/550-520
   1. Sniper ignition, etc
2. VI AL Head #10269 Ported - https://www.vintageinlines.com/product-page/deposit-only-aluminum-head-package
3. Extended Valve Stems +.30 - re note to Matt @ VI stem add +.30 to length as default
   1. SI
   2. Manley
4. 1300909705/177210 BW Airwerks Turbo S300SX-E 8378 61.44mm T4 .88 AR Journal bearing
5. F38-Black-14.5psi - Tial F38 38mm Wastegate Black 14.5psi
6. QBOV-Black-11psi-AL - Tial Q BOV 50mm 11psi
7. Camshaft - Solid-Lifter Cam CompCams Card 68362
8. Lifters - Oil Hole Solid Lifters CompCams SKU 817-12
9. Roller Rockers - RAU - F-44RA & F-44RRA? - http://rockerarms.com/pages/rollerfordcad.html
10. Adjustable Timing Gear Set - PART# JPP-200-DRC - https://www.vintageinlines.com/product-page/dual-roller-timing-chain-set-170-200ci

Developing and Can-Do:

1. Connecting Rods - Pauter Engineering FOR-235-565-1248F
2. Custom forged 2618 alloy pistons - http://racetecpistons.com/

To be Developed or Figured on:

1. Equal Length Header/T4 Collector
2. Harmonic Balancer / Damper
   1. http://www.atiracing.com/contact/contactati.htm
   2. B-H-J - Spoke with Chris, good conversation
   3. Fluidamper contacted - nope
   4. ATI - too much normal stuff to do custom.
3. Oil Pump
   1. Contacting Pauter on oil pump mods.
   2. 250CID Pump, Adapter and drive from D2S Racing Products Inc. ( @drag-200stang )
4. Oil Pan
   1. Canton?
   2. Modify stock pan, develop windage kit

Added Jan 29,2021 7PM

Vendors Contacted/Emailed:

Magnum Machine Inc.
https://www.magnummachineincorporated.com
Magnum Machine Inc.
921 Business Park Dr
Chesapeake, VA 23320
Telephone: (757) 424-1440
FAX: (757) 424-6210
Owner says- "No prob, I like the oddball builds"

Rocker Arms Unlimited - https://rockerarms.com
16575 Clear Creek Rd.
Redding, CA. 96001
Tel: 530-242-1316
Fax: 530-242-1332
Email: rockerarms@rockerarms.com
re: @bubba22349 's suggestion on roller rocker availability, made in usa

Pauter Machine - https://pauter.com
Don Pauter
367 Zenith Street
Chula Vista, CA 91911
Tel: 619-422-5384
Fax: 619-422-1924
Email: info@pauter.com
Custom Connecting Rods - FOR-235-565-1248F
And oil pumps...
https://pauter.com/parts/oil-pumps/
contacting about HV 200 oil pump mods.

RaceTec Pistons - https://RaceTecPistons.com
Randy Gillis
15681 Computer Lane
Huntington Beach, Ca 92649
Tel: 714-903-4362
Fax: 714-891-0190

CAA Racing Products/Protohawk (torque-plates/other engineering)
https://www.protohawk.com/ https://ccaracing.com/
Michael Gallo
- offered to sanity check our torque plate. because... no one wants to wreck a chunk of stock - which is awfully gracious of the owner.
- Makes insert bushings too: https://ccaracing.com/engine-block-tooling/

 

[CNC-Dude]

Since the SBC and the Ford journal sizes are so close together, I would not be concerned. As for the 1JZ journal size, I would make sure the crank grinder used this opportunity to put a larger radius in the filets to offset the smaller diameter. Grinding the journal smaller does reduce the bearing overlap which is what help minimize crank flexing and harmonics. Refresh my memory, what is the journal size difference between the Ford and 1JZ again?

 

[drag-200stang]

Since the SBC and the Ford journal sizes are so close together, I would not be concerned. As for the 1JZ journal size, I would make sure the crank grinder used this opportunity to put a larger radius in the filets to offset the smaller diameter. Grinding the journal smaller does reduce the bearing overlap which is what help minimize crank flexing and harmonics. Refresh my memory, what is the journal size difference between the Ford and 1JZ again?

2.1234 and 2.047 and the coyote is 2.086 for instance I believe.

 

[CNC-Dude]

Ok, neither would appear to be a huge cut off of the journal, but I would still recommend the crankgrinder add a larger radius to the rod journals. It is just a cast crank and can't hurt to do it. Do the 1JZ or Coyote have good quality bearing choices like the SBC?

 

[1966Mustang]

I had a dream last night about cranks and rods... That's probably not healthy.

I am calling the ball.

I'm going to dare to be different, trust in this mostly democratic process and go with specs of our consensus. Cost be damned. I'm calling it at:

Center to Center: 4.915" (stock is 4.715")
Big End Bore: 2.225" (big end bore for SBC 2.100" journal, stock crank is 2.1234)
Pin End Bore: .927" (more plentiful than 'ford' .912)
Big End Width: .992"
Pin End Width: 1.00"

 

[drag-200stang]

Ok, neither would appear to be a huge cut off of the journal, but I would still recommend the crankgrinder add a larger radius to the rod journals. It is just a cast crank and can't hurt to do it. Do the 1JZ or Coyote have good quality bearing choices like the SBC?

No not as much, looks like the 1Jz has an extra clearance bearing..I was not suggesting using the coyote rod size just a if this is ok than that would be ok. At this point I like the 1Jz for the cost , have it tomorrow and the lighter weight, no apparent clearance issue and a favorable length..What I do not like is the over lap reduction...I like the 2.100 and that is what I have been running ,the big question is what problem if any will it clear with out a lot of work .And of course the 2.100 will have to be custom made .If the custom made does not bother Perry then its clear, I say go 2.100 and just deal with any clearance issues that may arise.

 

[CNC-Dude]

Yeah, you still have to clearance most any Chevy V8 block when you use Scat or Eagle rods, it's not an issue as it's mostly minor grinding.

 

[drag-200stang]

Perry you type a lot faster than I do and ninjaed me and Your not helping my sleep any I cannot wait for the piston size, material , rings, lock s,etc.

 

[1966Mustang]

To pay for all this...
I was thinking about having some unfortunate mishap due to unintended consequences from the application of industrial adhesives or other chemicals to some sensitive region of my person - let my plight go viral on the social medias, set up a go-fund-me and watch the $ roll in.

Then, self-remove the adhesive by soaking in an acetone bath - the 'good' acetone - not the stuff sold as nail polish remover.

If I survive - Titanium Rods.

Damn... I guess I just pre-meditated it.

Now the rods can't be titanium.

 

[1966Mustang]

Ok - Now that the rods are put to bed...

What else can we theoretically figure out before having things in our mitts?

 

[drag-200stang]

Not so fast Just to be clear we started out talking about a rod with a floating pin and that is what we are still talking about doing right?

 

[1966Mustang]

Not so fast Just to be clear we started out talking about a rod with a floating pin and that is what we are still talking about doing right?

Awww gee whiz guys... I was floating in my aforementioned dream, I didn't realize it was referring to the pin. I need a new dream interpretation book.

So, what's this floating pin consideration?

 

[pmuller9]

The small end of the rod has a bushing that is a soft bearing for the piston pin to ride on rather than being pressed into the rod like the stock piston pins.
The rod can turn on the pin as well as the pin turning in the piston.
The piston has clips to hold the pin in place.

 

[1966Mustang]

Full floating, triple spirolox...

 

[drag-200stang]

You want the floating pin...It is nice to be able to easily assemble and disassemble for checking and fitting.. while we are talking about the floating pin..The last time I bought a custom rod I though that It would fit the .927 pin I had with the custom piston I had , like the times before, but nooooo...I called grp and he said I thought that you would want to hone to size..I was able to send them back with the pin and they fitted them no problem..So what I am typing is, get an understanding between you the piston mfg and the rod mfg as to the best way to marry them together..

 

[drag-200stang]

Full floating, triple spirolox...

Really?.. I have been using two, what I call''double'' on each side with no problems..Maybe there is something new out there now.. That also needs to fit the pin. Today's mfg. tolerances are held very close and I can not see why there should be any issues with any of this stuff... Oh there is right way and a wrong way to face them.

 

[1966Mustang]

they're just normal spirolox - not sure why I said triple\

 

[1966Mustang]

Update: Main and Head ARP Bolts showed up today... I swear they tell you it's gonna be Tuesday but shows up Saturday... and they don't even knock on the door! The Mrs found them... luckily she let me know about them.

Cleaning up some additional parts today:

- Found the original oil pump and drive for it in my bucket of parts, took it apart and cleaned it up... Aluminum housing with a cast cover, looks fine. Put some assy grease in it and put it in a bag.

- Put the original non-adjustable rocker assy in the cleaner soup, everything moves. All of the rocker arms had different color paint dabs on the tips - blue, green, pink, white etc... I'm guessing that's original.

- Timing cover getting a cleaning too.

- Main Caps - I imagine there's some cleanup that can be done for them along the lines of flash and cleaning up other non-mating surfaces.

- All the fasteners cleaned up (timing cover, oil pan, etc)

Contacted Canton Racing to see if they can make these:

 

[1966Mustang]

What's in the VintageInlines ARP Stud Kit?

Here are the AL Cylinder Head Studs, VI PN: ARP-250-ACH

ARP Aluminum Head Studs - Full "A" Kit | Vintage Inlines

Head Stud Kit for all 170/200/250ci motors. The 42 piece set includes studs, washers and nuts. ARP® Bolts and Studs are approximately ten times stronger than OEM fasteners. For most performance applications, studs are recommended over bolts. Studs make it much easier to assembly an engine...

www.vintageinlines.com

View media item 229
Here are the Main Cap Studs, VI PN: ARP-200-MS7

ARP Main Stud Kit (200ci - 7 main) | Vintage Inlines

Main Stud Kit for 200ci motors with 7 mains. The 42 piece set includes washers and nuts. ARP® Bolts and Studs are approximately ten times stronger than OEM fasteners. For most performance applications, studs are recommended over bolts. Studs make it much easier to assembly an engine, assuring...

www.vintageinlines.com

View media item 228

 

[1966Mustang]

I have one of Does10s headers and can say that it would work with the log head but not with the CI head. The turbo and downpipe would hit the intake manifold. I had to have it modified on mine.

Hey @gus91326 can you tell me about the intercooler, radiator and fan you use? Did you have to make modifications to the front radiator support?

I'm thinking of doing something similar to the one-piece valance with my existing sheetmetal upper/lower valances.

Thanks,

Perry

 

[gus91326]

Hey @gus91326 can you tell me about the intercooler, radiator and fan you use? Did you have to make modifications to the front radiator support?

I'm thinking of doing something similar to the one-piece valance with my existing sheetmetal upper/lower valances.

Thanks,

Perry

Radiator I used is a Champion 5.0 conversion version that it said was good for 300 hp. I live in LA and this along with my electric fan have worked in the summer LA traffic with no issues; this mounts to the stock location with no changes to the core support. I haven't cut the support for a larger radiator simply because I haven't needed to.

Mustang V8 Conversion 2-row radiator (64-66)

www.championradiators.com

For the fan, I searched and found a thin SPAL fan through the FAN MAN that is the thinnest affordable fan I have been able to find. It's 1300 cfm which sounds low, but again, I have never been let down by it; it's cheap too.

16″ SPAL Low Profile – Pull Type Electric Fan – S400 |

16" Pull Type SPAL Electric Fan - Low Profile - Straight Blade - 30100400 - VA18-AP10/C41A

the-fan-man.com

The intercooler I used is a Summit Frostbite setup- seemed to be good for my setup; last summer when I was working out some bugs I saw IATs of around 102* when ambient was about 98* at 7-8 psi:

Frostbite Performance Cooling FB600 Frostbite Universal Intercoolers | Summit Racing

Free Shipping - Frostbite Universal Intercoolers with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Intercoolers at Summit Racing.

www.summitracing.com

I will say that if you mount the intercooler the way I did you will need to remove the hood latch and move to pins.