All Small Six The 'Ideal' 200 Built By Committee

This relates to all small sixes
1966Mustang

1966Mustang

ALL THE THINGS
Staff member
Subscriber
  • I picked up a 1978 200 a while ago, for no other purpose other than I was bored and needed a road-trip to New Jersey.
  • The head has been cleaned and no cracks found. It is sitting on a shelf, partially pocket ported ... (for sale soon)
  • The block has not been inspected yet. It is sitting on an engine stand. Assume it's good and can be bored.
  • Also assume it's going in my 65 Mustang Coupe. My HP goal is... about 400ish
  • Reply with your suggestions/ideas on the Carb/EFI, Ignition, Pistons, Cam, AL Head?, Tranny, Reardiff, Exhaust, Turbo???
  • Upvote the replies you like, downvote the ones you don't (up/down arrows on the right of the replies).
  • Let's have some fun with this!
As 'decisions' are made, they'll be posted here, subject to change.

Added Google Sheet Feb 9, 2020 for P/Ns and Purchasing Dept. Progress...
docs.google.com

200 Built By Committee

BOM Seq,Order By Date,Part Desc,Part Num,Vendor,SuggestedBy,ItemURL,Notes,Contact,Email,QuoteNum,QuoteDate,QtyOrdered,Price,Total,Date Ordered,Date Received,Date Delta Days 10,BLOCK RELATED 10.1,200CID Block D8BE,D8BE,Craigslist...,Craigslist Bought,1,$80.00,$80.00 10.11,3/1/2021,Dual Roller Tim...
docs.google.com docs.google.com

Mostly Decided:
  1. Holley Super Sniper 4150 650HP PART# PART# 550-520 - https://www.holley.com/products/fue...sniper_efi/sniper_4bbl_tbi_kits/parts/550-520
    1. Sniper ignition, etc
  2. VI AL Head #10269 Ported - https://www.vintageinlines.com/product-page/deposit-only-aluminum-head-package
  3. Extended Valve Stems +.30 - re note to Matt @ VI stem add +.30 to length as default
    1. SI
    2. Manley
  4. 1300909705/177210 BW Airwerks Turbo S300SX-E 8378 61.44mm T4 .88 AR Journal bearing
  5. F38-Black-14.5psi - Tial F38 38mm Wastegate Black 14.5psi
  6. QBOV-Black-11psi-AL - Tial Q BOV 50mm 11psi
  7. Camshaft - Solid-Lifter Cam CompCams Card 68362
  8. Lifters - Oil Hole Solid Lifters CompCams SKU 817-12
  9. Roller Rockers - RAU - F-44RA & F-44RRA? - http://rockerarms.com/pages/rollerfordcad.html
  10. Adjustable Timing Gear Set - PART# JPP-200-DRC - https://www.vintageinlines.com/product-page/dual-roller-timing-chain-set-170-200ci
Developing and Can-Do:
  1. Connecting Rods - Pauter Engineering FOR-235-565-1248F
  2. Custom forged 2618 alloy pistons - http://racetecpistons.com/
To be Developed or Figured on:
  1. Equal Length Header/T4 Collector
  2. Harmonic Balancer / Damper
    1. http://www.atiracing.com/contact/contactati.htm
    2. B-H-J - Spoke with Chris, good conversation
    3. Fluidamper contacted - nope
    4. ATI - too much normal stuff to do custom.
  3. Oil Pump
    1. Contacting Pauter on oil pump mods.
    2. 250CID Pump, Adapter and drive from D2S Racing Products Inc. ( @drag-200stang )
  4. Oil Pan
    1. Canton?
    2. Modify stock pan, develop windage kit

Added Jan 29,2021 7PM

Vendors Contacted/Emailed:

Magnum Machine Inc.
https://www.magnummachineincorporated.com
Magnum Machine Inc.
921 Business Park Dr
Chesapeake, VA 23320
Telephone: (757) 424-1440
FAX: (757) 424-6210
Owner says- "No prob, I like the oddball builds"

Rocker Arms Unlimited - https://rockerarms.com
16575 Clear Creek Rd.
Redding, CA. 96001
Tel: 530-242-1316
Fax: 530-242-1332
Email: rockerarms@rockerarms.com
re: @bubba22349 's suggestion on roller rocker availability, made in usa

Pauter Machine - https://pauter.com
Don Pauter
367 Zenith Street
Chula Vista, CA 91911
Tel: 619-422-5384
Fax: 619-422-1924
Email: info@pauter.com
Custom Connecting Rods - FOR-235-565-1248F
And oil pumps...
https://pauter.com/parts/oil-pumps/
contacting about HV 200 oil pump mods.

RaceTec Pistons - https://RaceTecPistons.com
Randy Gillis
15681 Computer Lane
Huntington Beach, Ca 92649
Tel: 714-903-4362
Fax: 714-891-0190

CAA Racing Products/Protohawk (torque-plates/other engineering)
https://www.protohawk.com/ https://ccaracing.com/
Michael Gallo
- offered to sanity check our torque plate. because... no one wants to wreck a chunk of stock :D - which is awfully gracious of the owner.
- Makes insert bushings too: https://ccaracing.com/engine-block-tooling/
 
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I would have preferred 'That is not very far to travel'...

Is this a problem or an interesting challenge?

FWIW - The stock pistons travel out the bottom - I'd say about that much-ish. I could throw it back together enough to take a picture. I'll go do that.
 
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OK I'll rephrase. .700" is not bad seeing that the cylinders are that short.
Not a problem. Just an observation.

The 300 stock piston travels 1.1" below cylinder but the custom pistons on the longer 240 rod stays in the cylinder.
 
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Can you measure the piston skirt beyond the cylinder?

Just from the picture it looks like the longer rod and shorter piston will greatly improve the piston overhang.
After the bock is bored you will want to bevel the bottom of the cylinder walls to keep it from shaving the bottom of the piston skirt.
 
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Is the cam degree marks set to straight up? It should be plenty of room and you might be gaining some more depending on the new rod big end finished size and which bearing size you end up using.
 
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Just to confirm we're firm-firm on these numbers...

1966Mustang said:
This is what I am telling con rod people...

Center to Center: 4.915" (stock is 4.715")
Big End Bore: 2.225" (big end bore for SBC 2.100" journal)
Pin End Bore: .912" (same as stock )
Big End Width: .992" (same as stock)
Pin End Width: 1.00" (same as stock)
Click to expand...

And to make sure the overall width across the big end is no more/higher/protrudes more than the stock big end so as not to hit the cam and/or cylinder...
 
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You still need to dummy up the crank and a new piston and rod to confirm you have adequate rod clearance with all obstacles in the path of rotation. Aftermarket rods are generally more beefy and may require minor notching of the cylinder bottoms or pan rail area. Not to mention the cam barrel. So just double check with the new components. It's not uncommon to have to do that.
 
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CNC-Dude said:
You still need to dummy up the crank and a new piston and rod to confirm you have adequate rod clearance with all obstacles in the path of rotation. Aftermarket rods are generally more beefy and may require minor notching of the cylinder bottoms or pan rail area. Not to mention the cam barrel. So just double check with the new components. It's not uncommon to have to do that.
Click to expand...

I wonder if they could send me the CAD so I could 3D print to check...
 
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That is something you have to do physically unfortunately...Its like them saying to cut the block x amount of thousandths to obtain zero deck. You are taking a huge gamble to do it without mocking up and doing it the correct way.
 
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With the 2.100 size I would go with The .927 pin because there is more pins to chose from and cheaper..I did the ''Ford'' .912 once and had to wait because they where out, not used as much..Watch back by the starter some rod can be close there..
 
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CNC-Dude said:
That is something you have to do physically unfortunately...Its like them saying to cut the block x amount of thousandths to obtain zero deck. You are taking a huge gamble to do it without mocking up and doing it the correct way.
Click to expand...
What is your opinion on using the off the shelf 1JZ rod ? Does the crank pin reduction concern you.. Walt paid 275 for the crank to be ground to fit..He made no mention of clearance problems..The coyote uses a 22mm pin so how bad can that be.
 
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