All Small Six The 'Ideal' 200 Built By Committee

This relates to all small sixes
1966Mustang

1966Mustang

ALL THE THINGS
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  • I picked up a 1978 200 a while ago, for no other purpose other than I was bored and needed a road-trip to New Jersey.
  • The head has been cleaned and no cracks found. It is sitting on a shelf, partially pocket ported ... (for sale soon)
  • The block has not been inspected yet. It is sitting on an engine stand. Assume it's good and can be bored.
  • Also assume it's going in my 65 Mustang Coupe. My HP goal is... about 400ish
  • Reply with your suggestions/ideas on the Carb/EFI, Ignition, Pistons, Cam, AL Head?, Tranny, Reardiff, Exhaust, Turbo???
  • Upvote the replies you like, downvote the ones you don't (up/down arrows on the right of the replies).
  • Let's have some fun with this!
As 'decisions' are made, they'll be posted here, subject to change.

Added Google Sheet Feb 9, 2020 for P/Ns and Purchasing Dept. Progress...
docs.google.com

200 Built By Committee

BOM Seq,Order By Date,Part Desc,Part Num,Vendor,SuggestedBy,ItemURL,Notes,Contact,Email,QuoteNum,QuoteDate,QtyOrdered,Price,Total,Date Ordered,Date Received,Date Delta Days 10,BLOCK RELATED 10.1,200CID Block D8BE,D8BE,Craigslist...,Craigslist Bought,1,$80.00,$80.00 10.11,3/1/2021,Dual Roller Tim...
docs.google.com docs.google.com

Mostly Decided:
  1. Holley Super Sniper 4150 650HP PART# PART# 550-520 - https://www.holley.com/products/fue...sniper_efi/sniper_4bbl_tbi_kits/parts/550-520
    1. Sniper ignition, etc
  2. VI AL Head #10269 Ported - https://www.vintageinlines.com/product-page/deposit-only-aluminum-head-package
  3. Extended Valve Stems +.30 - re note to Matt @ VI stem add +.30 to length as default
    1. SI
    2. Manley
  4. 1300909705/177210 BW Airwerks Turbo S300SX-E 8378 61.44mm T4 .88 AR Journal bearing
  5. F38-Black-14.5psi - Tial F38 38mm Wastegate Black 14.5psi
  6. QBOV-Black-11psi-AL - Tial Q BOV 50mm 11psi
  7. Camshaft - Solid-Lifter Cam CompCams Card 68362
  8. Lifters - Oil Hole Solid Lifters CompCams SKU 817-12
  9. Roller Rockers - RAU - F-44RA & F-44RRA? - http://rockerarms.com/pages/rollerfordcad.html
  10. Adjustable Timing Gear Set - PART# JPP-200-DRC - https://www.vintageinlines.com/product-page/dual-roller-timing-chain-set-170-200ci
Developing and Can-Do:
  1. Connecting Rods - Pauter Engineering FOR-235-565-1248F
  2. Custom forged 2618 alloy pistons - http://racetecpistons.com/
To be Developed or Figured on:
  1. Equal Length Header/T4 Collector
  2. Harmonic Balancer / Damper
    1. http://www.atiracing.com/contact/contactati.htm
    2. B-H-J - Spoke with Chris, good conversation
    3. Fluidamper contacted - nope
    4. ATI - too much normal stuff to do custom.
  3. Oil Pump
    1. Contacting Pauter on oil pump mods.
    2. 250CID Pump, Adapter and drive from D2S Racing Products Inc. ( @drag-200stang )
  4. Oil Pan
    1. Canton?
    2. Modify stock pan, develop windage kit

Added Jan 29,2021 7PM

Vendors Contacted/Emailed:

Magnum Machine Inc.
https://www.magnummachineincorporated.com
Magnum Machine Inc.
921 Business Park Dr
Chesapeake, VA 23320
Telephone: (757) 424-1440
FAX: (757) 424-6210
Owner says- "No prob, I like the oddball builds"

Rocker Arms Unlimited - https://rockerarms.com
16575 Clear Creek Rd.
Redding, CA. 96001
Tel: 530-242-1316
Fax: 530-242-1332
Email: rockerarms@rockerarms.com
re: @bubba22349 's suggestion on roller rocker availability, made in usa

Pauter Machine - https://pauter.com
Don Pauter
367 Zenith Street
Chula Vista, CA 91911
Tel: 619-422-5384
Fax: 619-422-1924
Email: info@pauter.com
Custom Connecting Rods - FOR-235-565-1248F
And oil pumps...
https://pauter.com/parts/oil-pumps/
contacting about HV 200 oil pump mods.

RaceTec Pistons - https://RaceTecPistons.com
Randy Gillis
15681 Computer Lane
Huntington Beach, Ca 92649
Tel: 714-903-4362
Fax: 714-891-0190

CAA Racing Products/Protohawk (torque-plates/other engineering)
https://www.protohawk.com/ https://ccaracing.com/
Michael Gallo
- offered to sanity check our torque plate. because... no one wants to wreck a chunk of stock :D - which is awfully gracious of the owner.
- Makes insert bushings too: https://ccaracing.com/engine-block-tooling/
 
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Rings are going to be a problem, they were for me. you'll need to be around 0.040 over size to get a good ring package or you'll have to have rings custom made. Ring package will prob end up 1.5/1.3/3MM. JE made my pistons 1.5/1.5/3mm (JE's mistake) and I had to have the 2nd ring custom made.. Make sure you have the ring package nailed down before you order pistons, if you don't you'll have $500 into rings.

As for Rod to Cam clearance, that is not a problem at all when using 1JZ rods

why are you looking at low lift cams if you are trying to make big power? Maybe you guys talked about it in this thread and I missed it Comp cams ground my cam.
 
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Fast ,Thank's for posting.
I was able to find some metric rings in 3.700 = .020 over bore , but it is a rare block that cylinder 1 will clean up at that.
The bore, rings and piston have to be well thought out.
 
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HI fast64ranchero, just curious what your piston and Rod assembly weight ended up at, what piston compression height is with the 1JZ Rod, and how much the piston top to block deck measured? So do you think that the crank could be offset ground any if cam clearance isn't a problem? Thank you
 
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Hi Committee, since this 200 Turbo engine build is going to have a potential of 7500 RPM or more, I have been thinking shouldn't a better than stock spec Crankshaft Dampner be sourced for saftey?
 
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This is a scan of my actual HG I purchased - Felpro 7916 pt-1 - not very round cylinder holes.

200-hg-actual.png

Digging around in my toolbox I came across some brass doweling center points... so, that gave me the idea to 3D print plugs with 1mm holes in their centers for the actual bores and bolt holes to give me 'points' to measure with calipers directly from the block. Checked, re-checked, checked again... Walked my compass around point to point and found that the 2 head bolt holes on the end of Cylinder 1 (left end/water pump size) are outside the radius from the center of the bore. The one bolt hole lower right (rear/bellhousing end) is on the same radius as all the other holes but at a different angle along it. All other 11 bolt holes are on a rectangle 4.05 x 3.3"
200HPscreenshot.png

DXF, PDF, SVG attached
 

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Not so fast :unsure: Perry I get 4.080 between the middle bolt holes on the gasket, some thing not adding up.
It might be better to make the passenger side front and rear bolt holes smaller like the head and gasket, those two align the gasket and head over the cylinder. But then it maybe better to align the head and gasket manually for best alignment. I would like to see a little more material on the passenger side too .
 
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pmuller9 said:
Are these measurements taken off the gasket?
If so it is a far better to take the measurements off the block
Click to expand...
The best would be if we could get ford engineering block drawings... The gasket may be more accurate than old ford machining but one hole is missing..If I was going to make one today with out high teck equipment ..I would put a known good fitting head ,lay it on a 26''x6'' wide x 2'' thick piece of metal clamped well , using a mill and drill down with a tight to hole drill .500 deep ..Change to .400 dia. and drill through..when done with all remove head and indicate off the the pilot hole and bore to the right size.
Put plate on block centered well with all bolts and scribe the bore to plate, remove filp over hole saw with a size that will be safe to clean up by boring, some holes will be needed to clear out chips..Now back on the block with some small spacers indicate off the block bore and bore to size, grind or mill flat, Done ...This is what I know will work for for me.
 
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Ok I just measured 3 cylinders on the block with a 12'' caliper and I come up with 4.080'' give or take a couple .001''on the bore spacing and the center bolts spacing...The way I see it the outer cylinders on the block will be .150 to far apart...A second opinion would be advised.
 
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Ford’s spec for all small blocks was for 4.080 bore centers. Front #1 and rear #6 cylinders will vary some because of the cooling passages, water pump mounting, and the rear cooling passages / jackets add extra length.
 
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...My caliper measuring my Pratt & Whitney Standard 1.000" at 60 degrees F says... .996"
lemme hold it in my hand a minute.

Or maybe I should buy something more than a $10 caliper from advance auto bargain bin...
 
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Absolutely check my work and I'm not debating my measuring skill/equipment/lack thereof. If the point of the plate is to torque the block 'into' shape - then I think we'd hit all the holes with enough clearance to hone given generous enough clearance.
I wouldn't make it too 'tight' on the bolt hole diameters and leave enough reasonable meat between bores.
 
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