All Small Six The 'Ideal' 200 Built By Committee

This relates to all small sixes
1966Mustang

1966Mustang

ALL THE THINGS
Staff member
Subscriber
  • I picked up a 1978 200 a while ago, for no other purpose other than I was bored and needed a road-trip to New Jersey.
  • The head has been cleaned and no cracks found. It is sitting on a shelf, partially pocket ported ... (for sale soon)
  • The block has not been inspected yet. It is sitting on an engine stand. Assume it's good and can be bored.
  • Also assume it's going in my 65 Mustang Coupe. My HP goal is... about 400ish
  • Reply with your suggestions/ideas on the Carb/EFI, Ignition, Pistons, Cam, AL Head?, Tranny, Reardiff, Exhaust, Turbo???
  • Upvote the replies you like, downvote the ones you don't (up/down arrows on the right of the replies).
  • Let's have some fun with this!
As 'decisions' are made, they'll be posted here, subject to change.

Added Google Sheet Feb 9, 2020 for P/Ns and Purchasing Dept. Progress...
docs.google.com

200 Built By Committee

BOM Seq,Order By Date,Part Desc,Part Num,Vendor,SuggestedBy,ItemURL,Notes,Contact,Email,QuoteNum,QuoteDate,QtyOrdered,Price,Total,Date Ordered,Date Received,Date Delta Days 10,BLOCK RELATED 10.1,200CID Block D8BE,D8BE,Craigslist...,Craigslist Bought,1,$80.00,$80.00 10.11,3/1/2021,Dual Roller Tim...
docs.google.com docs.google.com

Mostly Decided:
  1. Holley Super Sniper 4150 650HP PART# PART# 550-520 - https://www.holley.com/products/fue...sniper_efi/sniper_4bbl_tbi_kits/parts/550-520
    1. Sniper ignition, etc
  2. VI AL Head #10269 Ported - https://www.vintageinlines.com/product-page/deposit-only-aluminum-head-package
  3. Extended Valve Stems +.30 - re note to Matt @ VI stem add +.30 to length as default
    1. SI
    2. Manley
  4. 1300909705/177210 BW Airwerks Turbo S300SX-E 8378 61.44mm T4 .88 AR Journal bearing
  5. F38-Black-14.5psi - Tial F38 38mm Wastegate Black 14.5psi
  6. QBOV-Black-11psi-AL - Tial Q BOV 50mm 11psi
  7. Camshaft - Solid-Lifter Cam CompCams Card 68362
  8. Lifters - Oil Hole Solid Lifters CompCams SKU 817-12
  9. Roller Rockers - RAU - F-44RA & F-44RRA? - http://rockerarms.com/pages/rollerfordcad.html
  10. Adjustable Timing Gear Set - PART# JPP-200-DRC - https://www.vintageinlines.com/product-page/dual-roller-timing-chain-set-170-200ci
Developing and Can-Do:
  1. Connecting Rods - Pauter Engineering FOR-235-565-1248F
  2. Custom forged 2618 alloy pistons - http://racetecpistons.com/
To be Developed or Figured on:
  1. Equal Length Header/T4 Collector
  2. Harmonic Balancer / Damper
    1. http://www.atiracing.com/contact/contactati.htm
    2. B-H-J - Spoke with Chris, good conversation
    3. Fluidamper contacted - nope
    4. ATI - too much normal stuff to do custom.
  3. Oil Pump
    1. Contacting Pauter on oil pump mods.
    2. 250CID Pump, Adapter and drive from D2S Racing Products Inc. ( @drag-200stang )
  4. Oil Pan
    1. Canton?
    2. Modify stock pan, develop windage kit

Added Jan 29,2021 7PM

Vendors Contacted/Emailed:

Magnum Machine Inc.
https://www.magnummachineincorporated.com
Magnum Machine Inc.
921 Business Park Dr
Chesapeake, VA 23320
Telephone: (757) 424-1440
FAX: (757) 424-6210
Owner says- "No prob, I like the oddball builds"

Rocker Arms Unlimited - https://rockerarms.com
16575 Clear Creek Rd.
Redding, CA. 96001
Tel: 530-242-1316
Fax: 530-242-1332
Email: rockerarms@rockerarms.com
re: @bubba22349 's suggestion on roller rocker availability, made in usa

Pauter Machine - https://pauter.com
Don Pauter
367 Zenith Street
Chula Vista, CA 91911
Tel: 619-422-5384
Fax: 619-422-1924
Email: info@pauter.com
Custom Connecting Rods - FOR-235-565-1248F
And oil pumps...
https://pauter.com/parts/oil-pumps/
contacting about HV 200 oil pump mods.

RaceTec Pistons - https://RaceTecPistons.com
Randy Gillis
15681 Computer Lane
Huntington Beach, Ca 92649
Tel: 714-903-4362
Fax: 714-891-0190

CAA Racing Products/Protohawk (torque-plates/other engineering)
https://www.protohawk.com/ https://ccaracing.com/
Michael Gallo
- offered to sanity check our torque plate. because... no one wants to wreck a chunk of stock :D - which is awfully gracious of the owner.
- Makes insert bushings too: https://ccaracing.com/engine-block-tooling/
 
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The specs look perfect!
The only reservations I have is making a hydraulic lifter work from 7000 to7500 rpm.
Would they be willing to do a solid lifter cam with the same specs?
 
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Upvote 0 Downvote
pmuller9 said:
Would they be willing to do a solid lifter cam with the same specs?
Click to expand...

I wondered that too this is what Chris @ comp said:
Perry Clark: why does the valve adjustment say HYD ?
2021-03-02 12:53
Chris Wilkinson: Just because those are hydraulic lobes. They're a bit softer than a solid flat tappet lobe, will give you longer lifter life. For lash settings, you'd just do .010" on each


Also - it is nitrated. Total is around $350.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
1966Mustang said:
I wondered that too this is what Chris @ comp said:
Perry Clark: why does the valve adjustment say HYD ?
2021-03-02 12:53
Chris Wilkinson: Just because those are hydraulic lobes. They're a bit softer than a solid flat tappet lobe, will give you longer lifter life. For lash settings, you'd just do .010" on each


Also - it is nitrated. Total is around $350.
Click to expand...
That will work.
Using a solid lifter on a hydraulic cam has been done many times before.

You will need to be careful about checking lash both hot and cold.
The aluminum head will tighten lash more than expected as it is goes cold.
 
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Yes we like this cam.
No need to shop any further.

67straightsix had a more radical cam in his turbo 200 and found it not not to be as street friendly as he would have liked so he recently swapped it out for something that will work better with his engine and turbo combination.
Waiting for his return to the road.
 
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PDF attached in addition to this screenshot. I think I got all your measures - the numbers were within .001ish.
030221-smallsixhoningplate.png

Had a couple of nice email exchanges with CCA/Protohawk and the owner Mike offered to sanity check us.
 

Attachments

  • fordsix-200-smallsix-honing-plate.pdf
    247.7 KB · Views: 9
Upvote 0 Downvote
No those are not what we are talking about..Those are for oil thru push rods and go with rockers like Yella terra that need that oil system..The RAU do not need any different oiling than you have now ...We are talking about a hole in the lifter face in the center, that cam lobe rubs on to supply pressurized oil there.
Dinners on got to run.
 
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Here's my chat with Comp Cams if you're wondering how that conversation went...

What I found most interesting was how they figure it out.

2021-03-02 12:04
Connected.
There are no available agents at the moment. Your request is queued.
2021-03-02 12:05
CompCams connected.
CompCams: Hey there.
FordSixGuy: I need a custom cam for a ford 200cid
FordSixGuy: power from 3500 to 7000 rpm
FordSixGuy: a .050" intake duration around 236 to 238 degrees with a 114 degree LSA. The exhaust duration may be around 4 degrees less.
CompCams: Overhead cam 200?
FordSixGuy: no, 1978 200 inline six
CompCams: Which deck height?
FordSixGuy: 7.808
FordSixGuy: 3.3L/200CID 'small' six
FordSixGuy: don't worry about drivability...
CompCams: Alright. That might be tough, as we'd have to grind pretty far into the only core we have to get that
CompCams: Let me check and see what we can do on this core. That's probably close to the limit of how far we can grind it
FordSixGuy: thanks
CompCams: How much lift are you trying to run?
CompCams: .425?
FordSixGuy: .6 if we can get there
CompCams: That's not going to be possible on this core
FordSixGuy: that's what this head can do
CompCams: You're going to have to get there with rocker ratio
FordSixGuy: we have 1.65 roller rockers
CompCams: Alright, one moment
FordSixGuy: just as an aside... if allowed - could you send me a screenshot of the program you use to figure this stuff? I think it would be interesting to the forum
CompCams: Yep we can grind a cam like that
CompCams: It's not a program sir
CompCams: It's me, picking the lobes and putting in what we want done to the cam.
CompCams: It's a machine process, not a computer program
FordSixGuy: does it spit out NC/G code or a cad model?
CompCams: No
CompCams: Like I said, it's not a computer program
CompCams: I'm literally going to go to my lobe reference, find you lobes that match the specs you want, and create the spec card myself
FordSixGuy: gotcha
CompCams: So you want something like a 236/232 duration at .050?
FordSixGuy: if possible
CompCams: Is this a turbo setup or something?'
FordSixGuy: yes
FordSixGuy: should go to 7500rpm and +/-500hp
CompCams: A lot of that is going to depend on what springs you'll be running and how light your rotating assembly is
FordSixGuy: I'd love to go camless, but that's a ways off, so solid lifters
FordSixGuy: we discussed pinned roller lifters, but that's out of the budget maybe
CompCams: Do you want the camshaft to be nitrided? I'd recommend it.
FordSixGuy: yes please
CompCams: What's your email FordSixGuy?
CompCams: Also what is your phone number?
CompCams: I have your cam spec'd, I need to send you the cam card so you can confirm this is what you want
2021-03-02 12:32
FordSixGuy: someperson@someemail.com - 555-555-5555
FordSixGuy: got it - thanks - reviewing
FordSixGuy: why does the valve adjustment say HYD ?
CompCams: Just because those are hydraulic lobes. They're a bit softer than a solid flat tappet lobe, will give you longer lifter life. For lash settings, you'd just do .010" on each
FordSixGuy: ok, thanks. got a price?
CompCams: Total would be around $350 with it being nitrided
FordSixGuy: thank you, have a nice day.
2021-03-02 13:35
CompCams disconnected.
Disconnected by Agent.
 
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drag-200stang said:
So what did Mike at CCA have to say, did he have a drawing of the 200 ?
It looks like BHJ should have one.
Click to expand...
Sorry for the late reply - I just sent the PDF off to CCA. It's been one of those days this week so far. I could tell you about it but this is a family friendly forum and my happy place.
 
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