All Small Six The 'Ideal' 200 Built By Committee

This relates to all small sixes
1966Mustang

1966Mustang

ALL THE THINGS
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  • I picked up a 1978 200 a while ago, for no other purpose other than I was bored and needed a road-trip to New Jersey.
  • The head has been cleaned and no cracks found. It is sitting on a shelf, partially pocket ported ... (for sale soon)
  • The block has not been inspected yet. It is sitting on an engine stand. Assume it's good and can be bored.
  • Also assume it's going in my 65 Mustang Coupe. My HP goal is... about 400ish
  • Reply with your suggestions/ideas on the Carb/EFI, Ignition, Pistons, Cam, AL Head?, Tranny, Reardiff, Exhaust, Turbo???
  • Upvote the replies you like, downvote the ones you don't (up/down arrows on the right of the replies).
  • Let's have some fun with this!
As 'decisions' are made, they'll be posted here, subject to change.

Added Google Sheet Feb 9, 2020 for P/Ns and Purchasing Dept. Progress...
docs.google.com

200 Built By Committee

docs.google.com docs.google.com

Mostly Decided:
  1. Holley Super Sniper 4150 650HP PART# PART# 550-520 - https://www.holley.com/products/fue...sniper_efi/sniper_4bbl_tbi_kits/parts/550-520
    1. Sniper ignition, etc
  2. VI AL Head #10269 Ported - https://www.vintageinlines.com/product-page/deposit-only-aluminum-head-package
  3. Extended Valve Stems +.30 - re note to Matt @ VI stem add +.30 to length as default
    1. SI
    2. Manley
  4. 1300909705/177210 BW Airwerks Turbo S300SX-E 8378 61.44mm T4 .88 AR Journal bearing
  5. F38-Black-14.5psi - Tial F38 38mm Wastegate Black 14.5psi
  6. QBOV-Black-11psi-AL - Tial Q BOV 50mm 11psi
  7. Camshaft - Solid-Lifter Cam CompCams Card 68362
  8. Lifters - Oil Hole Solid Lifters CompCams SKU 817-12
  9. Roller Rockers - RAU - F-44RA & F-44RRA? - http://rockerarms.com/pages/rollerfordcad.html
  10. Adjustable Timing Gear Set - PART# JPP-200-DRC - https://www.vintageinlines.com/product-page/dual-roller-timing-chain-set-170-200ci
Developing and Can-Do:
  1. Connecting Rods - Pauter Engineering FOR-235-565-1248F
  2. Custom forged 2618 alloy pistons - http://racetecpistons.com/
To be Developed or Figured on:
  1. Equal Length Header/T4 Collector
  2. Harmonic Balancer / Damper
    1. http://www.atiracing.com/contact/contactati.htm
    2. B-H-J - Spoke with Chris, good conversation
    3. Fluidamper contacted - nope
    4. ATI - too much normal stuff to do custom.
  3. Oil Pump
    1. Contacting Pauter on oil pump mods.
    2. 250CID Pump, Adapter and drive from D2S Racing Products Inc. ( @drag-200stang )
  4. Oil Pan
    1. Canton?
    2. Modify stock pan, develop windage kit

Added Jan 29,2021 7PM

Vendors Contacted/Emailed:

Magnum Machine Inc.
https://www.magnummachineincorporated.com
Magnum Machine Inc.
921 Business Park Dr
Chesapeake, VA 23320
Telephone: (757) 424-1440
FAX: (757) 424-6210
Owner says- "No prob, I like the oddball builds"

Rocker Arms Unlimited - https://rockerarms.com
16575 Clear Creek Rd.
Redding, CA. 96001
Tel: 530-242-1316
Fax: 530-242-1332
Email: rockerarms@rockerarms.com
re: @bubba22349 's suggestion on roller rocker availability, made in usa

Pauter Machine - https://pauter.com
Don Pauter
367 Zenith Street
Chula Vista, CA 91911
Tel: 619-422-5384
Fax: 619-422-1924
Email: info@pauter.com
Custom Connecting Rods - FOR-235-565-1248F
And oil pumps...
https://pauter.com/parts/oil-pumps/
contacting about HV 200 oil pump mods.

RaceTec Pistons - https://RaceTecPistons.com
Randy Gillis
15681 Computer Lane
Huntington Beach, Ca 92649
Tel: 714-903-4362
Fax: 714-891-0190

CAA Racing Products/Protohawk (torque-plates/other engineering)
https://www.protohawk.com/ https://ccaracing.com/
Michael Gallo
- offered to sanity check our torque plate. because... no one wants to wreck a chunk of stock :D - which is awfully gracious of the owner.
- Makes insert bushings too: https://ccaracing.com/engine-block-tooling/
 
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Unless you want to be spitting up black gunk for a while... wear a "good" mask. This prefilter was not nearly this black before. Also wear goggles, long sleeves, gloves, pants, ear muffs, and a hoodie...
20210202_231235.jpg

Remove all the 'rectangles', casting lines, make smooth transitions, reduce mass, make shiny...
Notice where the tape got hit... even though you're a surgeon with an angle-grinder, wrap it up!
20210202_231033.jpg20210202_213948.jpg

What about this 'hole'?
20210202_231047.jpg
 
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Can't do much about that hole in cast iron.

It is important that you don't leave any grind marks that go across the counterweights or throws.
They can create a place to form a crack over time and eventual failure.
The fine finish lines must be along the length of the counterweights and throws.
 
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pmuller9 said:
Can't do much about that hole in cast iron.

It is important that you don't leave any grind marks that go across the counterweights or throws.
They can create a place to form a crack over time and eventual failure.
The fine finish lines must be along the length of the counterweights and throws.
Click to expand...
So - 'with the grain' in other words. Final cleanup will be with the cylinder type rotary tool
 
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I do not knife edge or grind material off the crank...With the small 3.126 stroke I do not think that there is enough gains to be made..I have no confidence that they will actually balance it correct and I trust ford and their engineering more...Your results may be different...
One thing that you can do to improve strength is to give your crank machinist your 1JZ rods and bearing and have him grind the journal fillet with a larger radius on the crank.
 
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I agree with no knife edging.
The 200 crank has short counterweights because of the short stroke so there's not much to be gained and unless the rod and piston weight is substantially reduced the counter weight mass should be left close to the same.
 
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1966Mustang said:
I will stop removing material and clean up what I've done so far.
Click to expand...
Knife edging removes a lot of material.
What you have been doing doesn't change the weight by much.
As long as the lumps and casting lines are gone along with some rounding out of sharp edges you should be good to put the final finish on it.
 
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pmuller9 said:
That's correct. There is no way to get roller lifters into the lifter gallery without opening up that side of the block
View attachment 5108
Click to expand...
No, no, no, no, no.

Gad some people love to hack the sh!+ out of Cleveland Engine Plant 2 iron. Bill Gay will be spinning in his grave at 6000 rpm.

I told MikeII57 this in advance. Just like the old flathead Ford solid roller or Hemi roller lifter. In a Ford sixes case, Just 11 or 12 pilot holes and the older slotted lifter

"https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/cc501/xecute6/221_argie_roller_cam_000_1389.jpg"

"https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/cc501/xecute6/221_argie_roller_cam_000_1393.jpg"

000_1389.jpg


000_1393.jpg


The roller lifter just needs to be prevented from spinning.


see https://www.fordsix.com/threads/cylinder-deactivation-lifters-for-pushrod-ford-engines.71938/
 
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And without the water mark.

I just shake my head. I have many posts on this.

Nothing needs the stupid heroics. Its just a retaining tang to stop roller movement. Many ways to achieve it.



Jesel and some other hydraulic and solid lifters have retaining groves.

Roller_lifters_100_0648j.jpg


04-29-2005, 08:34 PM
MrGadgets said:

Roller lifters input - Offshoreonly.com

General Q & A - Roller lifters input - Im looking for some iput on what is the best roller lifters out there right now?Most likely it will be a solid roller cam with Jesel shaft rockers and such but not sure on what roller lifters yet.Every company has good and bad batches it seems but does...
www.offshoreonly.com
Here are some pics of my progress. Not sure how they will look.
The slot process is going slow. The material used for the lifter bore bushings is very hard to drill.. About an hour a hole so far. And these are a .903 lifter.

Roller_lifters_100_0648b.jpg

Roller_lifters_100_0650b.jpg

Roller_lifters_100_0654b.jpg
Click to expand...


221_argie_roller_cam_000_1389.jpg



221_argie_roller_cam_000_1393.jpg
 
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We use Isky keyed roller lifters with slotted lifter bore sleeves in our endurance racing engines but I was not even considering bringing it up because it is way way beyond a street/strip budget.
 
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