All Small Six The 'Ideal' 200 Built By Committee

[1966Mustang]

• I picked up a 1978 200 a while ago, for no other purpose other than I was bored and needed a road-trip to New Jersey.
• The head has been cleaned and no cracks found. It is sitting on a shelf, partially pocket ported ... (for sale soon)
• The block has not been inspected yet. It is sitting on an engine stand. Assume it's good and can be bored.
• Also assume it's going in my 65 Mustang Coupe. My HP goal is... about 400ish
• Reply with your suggestions/ideas on the Carb/EFI, Ignition, Pistons, Cam, AL Head?, Tranny, Reardiff, Exhaust, Turbo???
• Upvote the replies you like, downvote the ones you don't (up/down arrows on the right of the replies).
• Let's have some fun with this!

As 'decisions' are made, they'll be posted here, subject to change.

Added Google Sheet Feb 9, 2020 for P/Ns and Purchasing Dept. Progress...

200 Built By Committee

docs.google.com

Mostly Decided:

1. Holley Super Sniper 4150 650HP PART# PART# 550-520 - https://www.holley.com/products/fue...sniper_efi/sniper_4bbl_tbi_kits/parts/550-520
   1. Sniper ignition, etc
2. VI AL Head #10269 Ported - https://www.vintageinlines.com/product-page/deposit-only-aluminum-head-package
3. Extended Valve Stems +.30 - re note to Matt @ VI stem add +.30 to length as default
   1. SI
   2. Manley
4. 1300909705/177210 BW Airwerks Turbo S300SX-E 8378 61.44mm T4 .88 AR Journal bearing
5. F38-Black-14.5psi - Tial F38 38mm Wastegate Black 14.5psi
6. QBOV-Black-11psi-AL - Tial Q BOV 50mm 11psi
7. Camshaft - Solid-Lifter Cam CompCams Card 68362
8. Lifters - Oil Hole Solid Lifters CompCams SKU 817-12
9. Roller Rockers - RAU - F-44RA & F-44RRA? - http://rockerarms.com/pages/rollerfordcad.html
10. Adjustable Timing Gear Set - PART# JPP-200-DRC - https://www.vintageinlines.com/product-page/dual-roller-timing-chain-set-170-200ci

Developing and Can-Do:

1. Connecting Rods - Pauter Engineering FOR-235-565-1248F
2. Custom forged 2618 alloy pistons - http://racetecpistons.com/

To be Developed or Figured on:

1. Equal Length Header/T4 Collector
2. Harmonic Balancer / Damper
   1. http://www.atiracing.com/contact/contactati.htm
   2. B-H-J - Spoke with Chris, good conversation
   3. Fluidamper contacted - nope
   4. ATI - too much normal stuff to do custom.
3. Oil Pump
   1. Contacting Pauter on oil pump mods.
   2. 250CID Pump, Adapter and drive from D2S Racing Products Inc. ( @drag-200stang )
4. Oil Pan
   1. Canton?
   2. Modify stock pan, develop windage kit

Added Jan 29,2021 7PM

Vendors Contacted/Emailed:

Magnum Machine Inc.
https://www.magnummachineincorporated.com
Magnum Machine Inc.
921 Business Park Dr
Chesapeake, VA 23320
Telephone: (757) 424-1440
FAX: (757) 424-6210
Owner says- "No prob, I like the oddball builds"

Rocker Arms Unlimited - https://rockerarms.com
16575 Clear Creek Rd.
Redding, CA. 96001
Tel: 530-242-1316
Fax: 530-242-1332
Email: rockerarms@rockerarms.com
re: @bubba22349 's suggestion on roller rocker availability, made in usa

Pauter Machine - https://pauter.com
Don Pauter
367 Zenith Street
Chula Vista, CA 91911
Tel: 619-422-5384
Fax: 619-422-1924
Email: info@pauter.com
Custom Connecting Rods - FOR-235-565-1248F
And oil pumps...
https://pauter.com/parts/oil-pumps/
contacting about HV 200 oil pump mods.

RaceTec Pistons - https://RaceTecPistons.com
Randy Gillis
15681 Computer Lane
Huntington Beach, Ca 92649
Tel: 714-903-4362
Fax: 714-891-0190

CAA Racing Products/Protohawk (torque-plates/other engineering)
https://www.protohawk.com/ https://ccaracing.com/
Michael Gallo
- offered to sanity check our torque plate. because... no one wants to wreck a chunk of stock - which is awfully gracious of the owner.
- Makes insert bushings too: https://ccaracing.com/engine-block-tooling/

 

[1966Mustang]

@pmuller9 - I hope so! There's still some more to do on the crank with the die-grinder and flap wheel - need to get some spots with my smaller tools.

Popped out the freeze plugs and 1 oil gallery plug - the other one in the side of the block was rusted and stripped the allen head, I'll have to gnaw on that one with a torx bit I don't care about or something.

Got the block off the stand and onto the bench where I can see in there better - Found some more casting flash to work on - around the cam and mains webbing, fuel pump opening, and some misc parting lines.

...Was I supposed to protect the cam and main bearings? I would think those get replaced...

View media item 216
View media item 213
Looks kinda like the Titanic in there...
View media item 212

 

[1966Mustang]

What Oil pump will be required?

 

[pmuller9]

The cam bearings will get replaced.

Since you have to supply oil to the turbocharger and the engine you should use a HV oil pump.
You will be using ARP main studs so there may be a clearance issue between the stud and the oil pump housing.
You can grind the stud down to the nut plus put a notch in the pump housing.
You can also make a spacer out of aluminum for the pump.
Cross that bridge when you get there.

 

[1966Mustang]

Worked on block today. Removed all main bearings from block/caps. Degreased, (Dawn, LA's Amazing, linseed oil soap. oven cleaner...) scrubbed and pressure washed block. Caps in the degreaser bucket (gunk carb cleaner). Don't have a cam bearing remover and didn't have time to improvise so left them for now. Blow dry, and put some sheep snot (fluid film) on the important parts. Found a couple more spots to grind in and out.

 

[wsa111]

You may be looking for distributor gear & camshaft wear with a HV oil pump. If you are going with yella-terra rockers, the supply of oil to the cylinder head will be eliminated by blocking the oil passage at the LR of the block.
You will have to run small block Ford oil through lifters to lube the upper end.
Highly suggest putting an oiling groove in the 2nd & third lifters to supply more oil to the dist. gear & cam gear.

 

[1966Mustang]

@wsa111 Hey Bill - I think I'm going with the RAU shaft mounted roller rockers - also, I will also need one of your DSIIs locked out when the time comes - PM me

 

[1966Mustang]

I am calling this DONE?
View media item 224
View media item 223

 

[Jmustang_65]

We can't see those media items. Get error.

 

[1966Mustang]

@Jmustang_65 How about now?

 

[pmuller9]

Looks Great!
This will be a very good example for others to follow.

When the block is done and ready for assembly you can apply Glyptal red enamel to all the inside surfaces.
We also Glyptal the inside of the oil pan.

 

[Jmustang_65]

We can't see those media items. Get error.

@Jmustang_65 How about now?

Looks good now thanks.

 

[powerband]

When the block is done and ready for assembly you can apply Glyptal red enamel to all the inside surfaces.
We also Glyptal the inside of the oil pan.

like 'Shot-Peening" , Glyptal sealed block is an old favorite HiPo traditional treatment not too commonly mentioned.

.



Blueprinted D6DE Ford small block 250 Six; Shot Peened and Balanced Rods, Clifford 272H Cam, 1.88 intake valves/1.50 exh with- silicon springs and HD retainers, Ported and Polished chambers and relieved valve shrouds .Fisher custom Harmonic Balancer, Tri-Power / Offy , Modified Holley carbs, Exhaust ¾ siamese port divider, Re-Curved distributor, HEI ignition, Indexed Champion plugs,s, Glyptal sealed block, Detroit gasket set,. SFI 157 neutral balance-lightened flywheel spinning Centerforce Clutch, T5-Z Cobra 5speed, Short throw Hurst shifter, 8”- 3.80:1 TracLoc Posi rear, Fab'd Caltrac clones, Shelby sway bars, Mustang front strut bars, Scarebird Disc front brakes, Fabricated subframe connectors / crossmembers, 8 Point roll cage, 5.0 alum. radiator, Perma-Cool fan, Holley fuel pump/pressure regulators, Hooker dual out longtube headers, Smithy silencers, Original tube radio, vacuum wipers and front fender Gunsights…




Have Fun

 

[drag-200stang]

I like to open up the lifter area oil drain back holes..They are to small for a performance build..You do not want oil not getting back to the pan...Because of casting and drilling tolerances I can not tell you how much..Just know where the oil passage is and watch for any unintended consequences, always when any mods are made.
Long story short I now tap the front oil galley for a 1/4 ''pipe plug , like the rear...Again go slow and watch for unintended consequences like too deep blocking an oil port or the plug hitting the sprocket.

 

[drag-200stang]

On the HV oil pump I do not believe that there is any available. If your turbo motor is on the tighter side and your pump is made right you may not need more oil..Shimming the spring can help, of course excessive pressure is not good.
My engines are loose and highly stressed and I need more oil and run a the larger 250 pump..If it is ok on a 250 with the same dist gear and the same cam gear why would it be any harder on the 200...I have run the 250 pump on 200 but it does not fit well and do not recommend it..I now have gone to a drop spacer adapter ,with the 200 pattern on the block side and the 250 on the pump side, it fixes a lot of fitment issues of direct mount.
What I would do is prep your block now so that if you do need to go that route all you have to do is bolt the adapter and pump on and mod pan and a larger pick up, a longer drive shaft will needed...The 250 pump oil port in the pump is .500, if you can get the passage from the block to the filter and in to the block to the oil galley it would be best...You may not be able to make the passages .500 because of core shift, you do not want to spring a leak If you do enlarge the oil hole on the block at the pump, try not get closer to the front bolt hole, it would make it harder to make the adapter...Do not try and drill out the long front to back oil passage it can effect the lifter bores...I will make a separate thread with pic when I figure out how.

 

[1966Mustang]

Great feedback all around. I am going to work on de-rusting the water jacket. I am thinking a tupperware box, some evaporust and a cheap HF fountain pump and hose to recirculate it. I am not interested in buying bulk Evaporust. My other idea is to put the block in a thick garbage bag with EVR and shop vac the air out... I'll see what happens.

apply Glyptal red enamel to all the inside surfaces

Glyptal sealed block is an old favorite HiPo traditional treatment not too commonly mentioned

Glyptal is something I hadn't heard of, but I've seen 'red paint' in other engine builds - never knew it was a specific thing - thanks for bringing it to our attention.
http://glyptal.com/glyptal_products.html - available from Eastwood, Amazon, etc.

open up the lifter area oil drain back holes

Are you saying enlarge the whole diameter of this hole or just chamfer out the ends of the holes?

HV oil pump I do not believe that there is any available.

I reached out to Melling to see why we can't have nice things... I'm sure it's a lot more technical than 'why can't I have a M65-HV', I'll see what they say.

I now tap the front oil galley for a 1/4 ''pipe plug , like the rear.

I can see the advantage of having this accessible from the front of the engine. I'm curious why someone would want to peek in there, or what can be discerned by doing so?

 

[drag-200stang]

open up the lifter area oil drain back holes

Are you saying enlarge the whole diameter of this hole or just chamfer out the ends of the holes?
Yes do both.

drag-200stang said:
I now tap the front oil galley for a 1/4 ''pipe plug , like the rear.

I can see the advantage of having this accessible from the front of the engine. I'm curious why someone would want to peek in there, or what can be discerned by doing so?
Machine shops will remove the pound in plug to clean out the block and it is easier to run a brush in from both ends to clean..Many times it is lost and not put back =no oil pressure..I think it is safer to use a threaded plug.

 

[1966Mustang]

I hate buying evaporust... maybe have 3/4 gal in here with the little HF pump in a baking sheet.




The Mrs. just went to the garage to check the laundry... "Should I hear water trickling?" I said "Yes, that is the zen fountain I'm building for you..."

 

[xctasy]

You would need the Ford .875" diameter lifter And I don't see a listing for them yet.

@xctasy will these work?
View attachment 5188

Yes. You apply the bronze insert and have the cam reground off a Chevy 0845 lifter master. Two changes. I've lost access to all my old links to Mike1157, but the South American guys use a stock 0875 Ford solid roller lifter with a slot cut into it, and the 12 bolts I showed you in the links stop it spinning. It seams that without a build list, no-one can do any thinking. Shake My Head Old Codgers Disease is setting in again...

 

[xctasy]

Your totally on the right track, Mike.But Isky via Pellegrini already make a cam for it, and it revs to 9500 in a 3.736" bore by 2.78" stroke 395 hp Turismo Catera 3000 engine, and has been doing so for years. Just with one 2-bbl Weber ID carb, too.

And Tigue Cams in Aussie


Historically, there have been two ways for the heavily bulkheaded and water gallery restricted log head block,


1. riffle drill through each bulkhead so a link bar can go in, or

2.just use slotted followers, and a bolt, as has been done for ages in Argentine race Falcon SP221's.

The Argentina TC 3000 and 4000 guys have been doing it for years with the Aussie/Argie medium deck 8.425" tall 188 and 221 based circuit engines

See http://www.pellegriniracing.com.ar/proy ... uturos.htm

http://www.pellegriniracing.com.ar/proy ... lcon_2.JPG
http://www.pellegriniracing.com.ar/proy ... nseba2.jpg

What do you think the slots and Frankenstein bolts are for? :rolflmao:

From https://www.fordsix.com/threads/roller-cam-for-250.71325/

Jack Collins noted that it had a bulk-head cut and a way of stopping the lifter rotating.
Pellegrini Racing TC3000 roller lifter was basically a Big Block 366/396/427/454 lifter, like the Morel 4676's

"https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/7b0d6703-02c7-4d7c-834a-da872ff630ae/downloads/1d2h1i2qc_816296.pdf"

 

[xctasy]

Looks like a very good plan, Mike.

You can slot stock Solid roller lifters, and run 12 bolts in the block, and retain it this way.



It all comes down to whats best with the pre-crossflow block. As soon as you've had to clearance the whole block to suit the splayed X-flow pushrods, then the easier it is get at the lifter gallery.

I'm an advocate of the SP 221 Ford non cross flow and 230 Chev (Short stroke US 250 Chev) method the Argentinians use because is cost effective, and a simple bolt, and cut slot into a lifter is much easier.

Again, its all down to what YOU feel comfortable with.

Gosh, the Pictures. I gave Mike 1157 a real "bollocking" over using the link bar lifters and not using the Non cross flow head, but that's nothing. The orginal post back in 2012 or 2013 was over this Isky or Morel/Erson roller with its slot turned through 90 degrees. The Herceg or Pellegrini Racing roller lifters