Timing and idle specs?

[DarkRose]

I just got my grandma's 79 Fairmont Futura, 3.3L I6. I installed a new radiator (old one was shot) and while I was in there, new water pump, thermostat and belts. I've left the smog pump belt off at the moment, because a new one wasn't in stock when I got my belts.
I got a Haynes manual for tuning and such, however... Thuis is the worst Haynes manual out of all of them I've had. NO Carb photos to explain anything, and for timing, idle speed, fast idle, etc. It keeps saying to refer to your underhood decal.

My underhood decal is no longer present... It appears that my year 3.3 should have the Holle7 1946 1-V?

What is the timing supposed to be? Idle RPM? Any other specs on this sticker I need to know?'

It runs decent, but dies occasionally, and acts like it's flooded a bit, have to let it sit a few minutes and starts right back up, no bogging (just around the block driving), so I want to check timing and carb adjustment on it with the smog pump unhooked...

Does the Chiltons manual have more photos? I'd hate to spend money on another book rthat doesn't ghave the info I'm looking for.

Sorry for all the questions, was just epxecting to do some tuning today and need more info!

 

[CZLN6]

Howdy Back Dark:

I only had a Chilton's for a '79 - '82 Mustang. The initial timing is 10 btc. for both manual and auto trans. Idle speed is 700 manual and 550 auto (in gear) without AC on. Plug gap is .050". What is your elevation?

A '79 200 should have a Carter YFA. 1980 was the 1st year for the Holley 1946 according to FoMOCO. That's not to say that it is correct. It may be stamped as a "MotorCraft". The Chilton's does have a section on setting the fast idle on both carbs. Neither very extensive. It also says that several adjustments are preset at the factory and are not to be adjusted. Yeah right!!

Is this a manual trans car? How many miles? Sounds like it may be time for a good carb cleaning and possibly a rebuild? If it is a 1946 it is not and easy carb to work on. Many typical adjustments are sealed or backwards- Fords attempt at tamper proofing.

Good luck. Keep us posted.

Adios, David

 

[fordconvert]

Unless you know the carb has been done in the last 5 or so years I would start there.

Have you been through a whole tank of fuel? If the gas is more than about 6 months old that could be your issue also.

Since you know the history of this car is there reason to suspect its out of time or needs serious carb adjustments? Was grandpa having trouble with this car last time he drove it? How often did he drive it or when what the last time he drove it?

 

[DarkRose]

Ok, here's the info.
It's a Motormite, un-grunged the tag today, not sure the numbers, forgot to write them down.
Grandma moved out of state, I bought the car, the car has less than 40k ORIGINAL miles. Gas is old, had less than half tank, I added about 4 gallons of fresh. Me getting the car is the first time it's been driven in probably 3 years or maybe a bit less.
I did find the tag with the info, had no idea it was on the rear driver's side of the valve cover... I expected it to be on the radiator support or fan shroud...
Go the idle adjusted, it was a bit low, timing looks ok. SPARK PLUGS! Looked to have fresh plugs and wires... Champion something at a .030" GAP!!! I don't put Champion in anything, and I knew the gap was too low, regapped them to .050". What plugs are best in these, Autolite, Motorcraft, NGK, other?

My mother drove my grandmother around once a week in the car maybe 3 years ago and she was having problems with it stalling or dying occasionally. After upping the idle a bit, and regapping the plugs, seems MUCH improved now.
There is something weird I noticed... Before checking the plugs and all, had it running, and at one point it died. Kept hearing fluid, looked in the carb, and fuel was still coming in from the booster, how does that happen with a mechanical fuel pump???

Thanks for the help all, been a 90% GM guy all my life, so this is all new territory to me.

 

[mugsy]

I don't know EXACT which carb is on your car, but there could be a couple of causes. My first response is that the carb float, well, doesn't. That might explain the poor drive-ability too. The metering circuits are literally being flooded in the carb with too high of a gas level. The cure is to install a carb float that, well, does and make sure its level is set per spec. The other cause might be plugged air bleed passages. The gas is being siphoned to the booster because the small air bleeds aren't open to break the vacuum. For that you'll need to do a carb rebuild.

And if you are going to take the carb apart for the float R&R, you're well on your way to a total rebuild. Most rebuild kits don't include floats, so if you do decide to do a total rebuild make sure a new float is obtained.

Good luck and keep us updated.

 

[DarkRose]

Well I know nothing about this type of carb, all I've ever rebuilt were Holley 4150s...
How would I even find what rebuild kit I need? Could I go to my local AutoZone with the info from the Motorcraft tag and get the right kit and float?
Where can I find good instructions? Obviously my Haynes manual is almost worthless without photos.

 

[JackFish]

It could very well be a Holley 1946.
Rebuild kits are readily available at the parts store or on ebay.
It'll be far easier than a 4bbl to rebuild.
Maybe run a can of Seafoam in the gas tank and see if that helps anything.

 

[DarkRose]

It could very well be a Holley 1946.
Rebuild kits are readily available at the parts store or on ebay.
It'll be far easier than a 4bbl to rebuild.
Maybe run a can of Seafoam in the gas tank and see if that helps anything.

I think I get it now, a Holley 1946 labeled by Motorcraft...
I checked floats and kits on AutoZone, my local shop doesn't have them, but can be ordered... I do plan on running Seafoam through it (I put that sh*t in everything!), usually half a can in the tank, half through the brake booster vaccum hose, let die and sit for 5, restart and watch the crud burn out!

 

[mugsy]

My background was GM products (Pontiac's to be specific) before I bought my Mustang. You need to learn "FordSpeak" for the part numbering system. It's simple and makes sense. Anyway, with Ford they (if you're lucky) have a carb tag on one of the carb bolts; something like "D7DZ-B". This first letter is the decade (C= '60s, D= 70's), the second is the year in the decade. Then the two following letters refer to which of the Divisions (Ford, Lincoln, Mercury, Ford&Mercury, Mercury&Lincoln,Motocraft) and Model lines it went to. Then the last letter AFTER the dash is the revision. Anyway, "back in the day" you needed the carb tag to get the right carb rebuild kit and parts for that carb. If you have the tag I'd trust that before relying on the AutoStoned "make-model-year" listing. But if you don't have the tag then you do what you gotta do.

 

[CZLN6]

Howdy Back Dark and All:

"It's a Motormite". I'm guessing that label was on the carb, which may mean that it is a rebuilt. Anyway, look further. There is likely stampings or castings on the side of the float bowl or the base of the carb. Best guess is that it is a Carter YFA or a Holley 1946. If you're lucky it will be a Carter YFA. You may want to take a photo and post it here to help with ID. A rebuild kit will have detailed instructions and basic parts. It will likely not have a new float. If the float is not floating, the next step will be to find one that will. More likely that the float is partially stuck, since it sat for so long. It may be able to open, but not close all the way due to gas varnishing on the moving parts.

In any case the first step will be to verify what carb you have. Next steps will be to get the old gas gone, clean the inside and the outside as best you can. Once cleaned look again for any markings. An inside cleaning may include a tank of Mobil gas with "Techron" additive in it. The difference is that Seafoam goes in through vacuum. A half a can in the tank is pretty diluted. You will need to get the cleaner into the fuel bowl and let it set for any chance to clean or remove varnish. Once that is done, reassess the carb situation.

Adios, David

 

[JackFish]

Probably Motorcraft, not Motormite.
Or, Autolite.

 

[DarkRose]

Howdy Back Dark and All:

"It's a Motormite". I'm guessing that label was on the carb, which may mean that it is a rebuilt. Anyway, look further. There is likely stampings or castings on the side of the float bowl or the base of the carb. Best guess is that it is a Carter YFA or a Holley 1946. If you're lucky it will be a Carter YFA. You may want to take a photo and post it here to help with ID. A rebuild kit will have detailed instructions and basic parts. It will likely not have a new float. If the float is not floating, the next step will be to find one that will. More likely that the float is partially stuck, since it sat for so long. It may be able to open, but not close all the way due to gas varnishing on the moving parts.

In any case the first step will be to verify what carb you have. Next steps will be to get the old gas gone, clean the inside and the outside as best you can. Once cleaned look again for any markings. An inside cleaning may include a tank of Mobil gas with "Techron" additive in it. The difference is that Seafoam goes in through vacuum. A half a can in the tank is pretty diluted. You will need to get the cleaner into the fuel bowl and let it set for any chance to clean or remove varnish. Once that is done, reassess the carb situation.

Adios, David

Yes, Motorcraft was what I meant. There is a tag one of the corner bolts, I'll try to go out tomorrow and get a look at the numbers, cleaned it pretty well, just didn't have time to write them down today, lots of stuff going on, but got the car home... I think I might also need to change fuel filter, was running rather rough today, sputtering like it was going to die, I'm wondering if putting some fresh gas in got sediment or whatever stirred up in the tank and into the system...
I found the carb rebuild kits and floats, just have to get carb numbers to make sure I get the right ones. Been so long since I've had to work on a carb I didn't even think about stuck/saturated floats...

 

[DarkRose]

Ok, exact carb specs are
MotorCraft D9BE AEA

At the moment I think I've stirred up crap and got a clogged fuel filter, so I'll change that pretty quick. Still haven't gotten any recommendations on spark plugs.

My local Autozone has in stock
NGK Iridium 7510
NGK GP Platinum 2901 (special order)
Motorcraft SP-431
Autolite 46
Bosch Copper Super+ 7951
NGK V-Power Copper 2438

 

[bubba22349]

In a Ford I have always liked the Autolites or Motorcraft's. Copper gives a little better spark performance or go to Platinum if you are looking for long life for DD. The others you listed are good plugs too so comes down to the price you would pay for them?

 

[MPGmustang]

Plug gap is .050". What is your elevation?

I alway's thought for stock setup on 65 200 with 10k coil and point you want it at .030"

If you upgraded the coil you take the voltage and add .005, so a 40k coil would be .045.. that's the max you should be running, so I thought a trial and error were good order, if it misses on idle you lessen the gap,

currently i ahve the DUI @ 50k volt's meaning a .055 gap, well on hot days it misses so I put them to .053 and still missed so I put them @ 50, again this is at idle. i'm now @ .048 and it no longer misess at idle. Lately it's cooler so I bet i can open them up to .055 again. but again it's trial and error on gapping. if it misses at idle how much more can it miss at higher rpm (granted not taking into account that your amp's are increasing meaning less misses)

that's what I've understood... not meaning to hi-jack thread but pls correct me if I'm wrong... I'm still learning

I personally like the motorcrafts, they have a way smoother idle than the autolites.
look into the heat ranges too, more heat = more burn = more mpg if everything else stays optimum
your first posts suggest the carb float was sticking, not sinking... david guessed it too
old gas does that too, hopefully your on fresh gas now, i also suggest seafoam... should help the gas, unless you want to kill some weeds.

 

[DarkRose]

Well the tag on the back of the valve cover says .048-.052 gap, so I've got them set about .050 now (didn't have my good wire gapper with me, just a keychain gapper).
At the moment I seems I might have a clogged fuel filter, so gonna get that straightened out and get some fresh gas in it.
This vehicle is not going to be a DD, but do want to get all the main maintenance done before winter, and some fresh gas and Sta-bil, because it probably won't be driven much this winter aside from moving it every 2 weeks as mandated by my apartment complex.
Gonna order a carb kit and float soon also and get that re-done, so most of the tuning up will be done. The plug wires and cap look almost brand new.

I'm in Columbus, IN, so listed as approx. 630 ft. above sea level elevation...

 

[DarkRose]

Well, got the carb rebuilt today, wasn't too bad at all. Only stuff I couldn't adjust was the stuff that required a vaccum pump, but with low miles, it should be factory adjusted pretty well.

Idle mixture screw was out about 2 1/4 turns, does that sound right? (I'm also running no smog pump at the moment, so factor that in also)

I Mr. Gunk'd and boiled all 3 main carb sections (always worked well on my Holleys) so it's much cleaner, linkages work nice and smooth, everything went back together great, old floats did seem to be sticking a bit, so hopefully everything is in good order now! Rebuild kit didn't include an air cleaner gasket and mine was in pretty sorry shape, so grabbing another of those tomorrow...

I do appear to need a new choke, the plastic around the clip that the wire plugs on looks melted...

Hoping to have the carb and new fuel filter (along with new air filter and crankcase filter) on possibly tomorrow, so we'll see how things go! Wish I had a handheld tach...

Would a deluxe gauge cluster from another 79 Fairmont drop right in? I've seen clusters with tach and gauges instead of idiot lights like mine... I want real gauges!

 

[bubba22349]

Would a deluxe gauge cluster from another 79 Fairmont drop right in? I've seen clusters with tach and gauges instead of idiot lights like mine... I want real gauges!

They will fit but they have a differant wire harness for them (some of the sending unit may be differant too) so be sure to get those parts with that replacement dash.

 

[DarkRose]

Just an idea I was tinkering with in case I ever found one.

Got the rebuilt carb and fuel filter on today, running like a dream. Got rid of some of the vaccum lines that went with the smog pump and have them properly capped off. Found another vaccum fitting with no corresponding hose I could find (some kind of log with 2 vaccum fitting below the carb on the passenger side) so capped it off as well. Probably need to tinker with the idle some more, but will probably do that after I get the air cleaner gasket and air cleaner back on.