turbo update finally
- Thread starter kirkallen143
- Start date
gravelrash
Well-known member
i have an electric pump in the back of my car that pushes through the mechanical pump on the engine. the mechanical pump is mainly used for the boost referencing of the fuel system. 5-6pounds at idle and under vacume.15-20pounds under boost.
Hint: get a fuel pressure gauge its the best tool anyone could ever have.
Hint: get a fuel pressure gauge its the best tool anyone could ever have.
A
Anonymous
Guest
everything gravelrash said 
kirkallen143
Famous Member
Yeah I do have a fuel pressure gauge, it is just that it is in the engine bay. It is easier for me to just add another boost gauge next to the FP gauge on the engine.
Got the Carter strip pump Monday, pulled it apart and it has springs on the top and bottom side of the arm. I assume they are for high rpms? The stock fuel pump did not have these "extra" springs, only the ones at the diaphram, should I reuse these spring or not?
I will have to do a little fabricating to the stock pump arm to make it fit, that some grinding will take care of (forked end to diaphram side too wide). Talk to ya later.
Kirk
Got the Carter strip pump Monday, pulled it apart and it has springs on the top and bottom side of the arm. I assume they are for high rpms? The stock fuel pump did not have these "extra" springs, only the ones at the diaphram, should I reuse these spring or not?
I will have to do a little fabricating to the stock pump arm to make it fit, that some grinding will take care of (forked end to diaphram side too wide). Talk to ya later.
Kirk
kirkallen143
Famous Member
Howdy fellers,
Like I said, had to do a little grinding on the stock pump arm to make it fit. Well actually that it after trying to squeeze the first one down in a vice...please do not try this on heat treated metal, it will crack and break. Luckily, I had kept the first old pump for some unknown reason.
I ground the fork section of the pump arm a little on the ears, and some at the pivot point (not too much), fit just fine. JB welded the plug back at the pivot shaft and its ready to go. I'll let you know the outcome. Oh yeah, have a great Memorial Day weekend, and Thank you Veterans for your services.
Kirk Allen Jorden
ps. did not use the extra "no-float" springs that came w/ the Carter pump.
Like I said, had to do a little grinding on the stock pump arm to make it fit. Well actually that it after trying to squeeze the first one down in a vice...please do not try this on heat treated metal, it will crack and break. Luckily, I had kept the first old pump for some unknown reason.
I ground the fork section of the pump arm a little on the ears, and some at the pivot point (not too much), fit just fine. JB welded the plug back at the pivot shaft and its ready to go. I'll let you know the outcome. Oh yeah, have a great Memorial Day weekend, and Thank you Veterans for your services.
Kirk Allen Jorden
ps. did not use the extra "no-float" springs that came w/ the Carter pump.
Hey sorry to hear about your bonnet, The last time I drove my car I had a leak under the carb gasket and the car being my daily driver I still drove it to school, it leaned out and blew my bonnet clean off 
(stripped the threads), I drove to and from school at about 30 and havent driven it anywhere since. Im awaiting some paychecks to buy some tuning tools so I can infact get it all sorted out. Good luck and continue to keep us updated. Tommy
(stripped the threads), I drove to and from school at about 30 and havent driven it anywhere since. Im awaiting some paychecks to buy some tuning tools so I can infact get it all sorted out. Good luck and continue to keep us updated. Tommykirkallen143
Famous Member
Howdy,
Finally got pump in, lines run, etc...This time I installed the correct 350cfm metering block (and yes I like it). No need to hit the gas when starting, idles smooth (well as smooth as points will let it) and idle mixture screws are 1 1/2 turns out. Running 59 jets (0.058"call size), 8.5 PV, and the pvcr's are still stock at 0.059". Seeing now 8.5 - 9psi at the fuel pressure gauge. I have now added a pilot tube into the vent of the fuel bowl so it will see a direct signal from the boost and drilled 5 small holes in the PV's spring retainer (little round brass nut on the end of the PV), in case the added boost signal would push it shut.
Took it out for a light cruise, only @ 5 psi of boost, (now this is reading off a narrow band O2 sensor) it reads slightly rich at idle/cruise and goes lean when boost is applied. I will drill out the pvcr's 0.010" at a time and see where this takes me.
I am also thinking about using the timed port advance nipple, jb welding it's small hole in the main body of the carb so it doesn't see vacuum and then using a drimel tool to cut about a 1/2" long channel into the PV's main well to make it boost referenced. Can you picture that? Got that idea from the turbomustangs forum. Or wait for the boost referenced PV to come out. I'll try the pvcr's first. What I really need is to buy a wide band and get the accurate readings, but money is stopping that now.
That's where I'm at...at least it is running again!
Kirk Allen Jorden
ps. I do plan getting rid of the points and going dsII (I don't need the white start-retard wire do I?)
Finally got pump in, lines run, etc...This time I installed the correct 350cfm metering block (and yes I like it). No need to hit the gas when starting, idles smooth (well as smooth as points will let it) and idle mixture screws are 1 1/2 turns out. Running 59 jets (0.058"call size), 8.5 PV, and the pvcr's are still stock at 0.059". Seeing now 8.5 - 9psi at the fuel pressure gauge. I have now added a pilot tube into the vent of the fuel bowl so it will see a direct signal from the boost and drilled 5 small holes in the PV's spring retainer (little round brass nut on the end of the PV), in case the added boost signal would push it shut.
Took it out for a light cruise, only @ 5 psi of boost, (now this is reading off a narrow band O2 sensor) it reads slightly rich at idle/cruise and goes lean when boost is applied. I will drill out the pvcr's 0.010" at a time and see where this takes me.
I am also thinking about using the timed port advance nipple, jb welding it's small hole in the main body of the carb so it doesn't see vacuum and then using a drimel tool to cut about a 1/2" long channel into the PV's main well to make it boost referenced. Can you picture that? Got that idea from the turbomustangs forum. Or wait for the boost referenced PV to come out. I'll try the pvcr's first. What I really need is to buy a wide band and get the accurate readings, but money is stopping that now.
That's where I'm at...at least it is running again!
Kirk Allen Jorden
ps. I do plan getting rid of the points and going dsII (I don't need the white start-retard wire do I?)
A
Anonymous
Guest
kirkallen143":17m95ta1 said:
Don't bother unless you plan on 20+ psi
kirkallen143
Famous Member
Well, the 200 is finally getting there, drilled out the pvcr's to 0.081" (#46 drill bit) and no more lean under WOT. I bet the carter strip pump helped a whole lot, too. I have installed the pilot tube into the bowl vent, whether it helps or not, I do not know. This narrow band O2 sensor still reads I am rich at idle with the #59 jets (0.058"), I try bumping them down a few more sizes.
I have just a little bog right off the start, but nothing to complain about, reason for thinking of jetting down further. I will check out the accelerator pump gap, too. Also thinking of going to the 6.5 PV instead of the 8.5 in there now, cruising I might see 1 or 2 psi at 2500 rpms, which I think the jets can handle without PV being open.
I have all the parts for the dizzy swap, just need to clean them up and actually do the swap (work, wife, four children...). I want to see how this will actually perform b/tw points and electronic...and I think I already know the answer to this one. I am getting some fluttering of the A/F meter while cruising, stioch to lean, but I do not know if it is just the narrow band itself or something else. We'll find out somehow.
Well fellers that is where we are today, I'll keep you updated.
Kirk Allen Jorden
ps. at least the bronco is driveable now, it has been over a year.
I have just a little bog right off the start, but nothing to complain about, reason for thinking of jetting down further. I will check out the accelerator pump gap, too. Also thinking of going to the 6.5 PV instead of the 8.5 in there now, cruising I might see 1 or 2 psi at 2500 rpms, which I think the jets can handle without PV being open.
I have all the parts for the dizzy swap, just need to clean them up and actually do the swap (work, wife, four children...). I want to see how this will actually perform b/tw points and electronic...and I think I already know the answer to this one. I am getting some fluttering of the A/F meter while cruising, stioch to lean, but I do not know if it is just the narrow band itself or something else. We'll find out somehow.
Well fellers that is where we are today, I'll keep you updated.
Kirk Allen Jorden
ps. at least the bronco is driveable now, it has been over a year.
A
Anonymous
Guest
kirkallen143":14yeogis said:
power valve opening and closing?
kirkallen143
Famous Member
Linc's 200":1vcu34rn said:
I installed the 6.5 PV and it is a little crisper off the bottom, not as much of a bog now. Cleaned up the dizzy and tore it all apart last night, ready to weld up the #13 slot down to 0.41" (10 degree advance) and then it came to the module. I think they gave me one that was not a blue clip (49 state), is there a certain model and year I need to ask for? The wires are different colors from the diagrams here on the forum.
I ordered smaller jets, 0.056", 0.055", and 0.054" just to try and see any difference, but the 0.058" now give me a darker tan/brown color. I am still getting that fluttering on the A/F meter at cruise rpms, hopefully just the narrow band sensor. It is running real good as of now because again, I stomped it wide open from a rolling first gear and almost ran into the barbed wire fence.
Kirk Allen Jorden
kirkallen143
Famous Member
kirkallen143":3taugn84 said:
Well, actually went to an auto parts that still uses the catalogs and yes there are many variations of the ford module. Clip colors range from brown, green, orange, blue, gray and black. The blue clip module is a Borg/Warner, part # CBE7P. Just to let y'all know.
Kirk
A
Anonymous
Guest
My 1978 F-250 (49 state) came factory with a "blue grommet"
kirkallen143
Famous Member
Just messing around yesterday, with no intentions of installing, the DSII is now installed. Runs smoother and idles at higher rpms on the same timing setting compared to points. Checked to see total advance and ended up welding the centrifical advance slot too much, it only advances 5 degree...well time to get the file out. I did not use the white (start retard) wire and all is well. That's all for now, time to go pull a dizzy out.
Kirk Allen Jorden
Kirk Allen Jorden
What are your spark plugs gaped? I understand that a boosted engine should have the plugs gaped between .032 to .035 and no more as it can lead to a spark plug flame out due to the greater compression in the cylinder! It easy to regap them and give it a go!
I re-read and see that you are gaping the plugs at .025 ? I've only read one article about gapping the plugs, I would be interested in reading information on gapping to those specks.....kirkallen143
Famous Member
Mustangaroo":3fli8v1g said:What are your spark plugs gaped? I understand that a boosted engine should have the plugs gaped between .032 to .035 and no more as it can lead to a spark plug flame out due to the greater compression in the cylinder! It easy to regap them and give it a go!
Yes sir, I have the AR-33 plugs gapped to about 0.025" - 0.027". The smaller gap insures the igniteablity of the denser air/fuel mixture in high compression and/or forced induction engines (got that from a spark plug website).
I think the fluttering is the narrow band Bosch o2 sensor ($7.00), Linc has talked about this before, making the gauge read incosistent. I have a lighted analog type and has no numerical values, so I assume stoich is 14.7, or the middle of the gauge. It only has lean (to the left), stoich (middle), and rich (to the right), the cheapest gauge I could find. What helps the most, and all I care about, is it goes to rich when boost is applied.
Well, got the centrifical adv opened up to give only 10 degrees and all in by 2500 rpms and set the initial timing to 17 degrees. First had initial at 10 degrees, very flat when coming into boost (loses power quickly). Very satisfied with 17 degrees, especially on 93 pump gas. The power comes on very quick with no lag what-so-ever and boosts up to 10 psi. I can tell you one thing... this bronco, YOU BETTER BE HANGIN' ON with both hands on the wheel, if not careful it will get away from you in a heart-beat! I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I still need to get a DSII coil, still using the points-type. Do they make a DSII coil w/ threaded terminals or could I get one of those high output coils (Accel, MSD, Mallory, etc...).
Well I plan on putting some break-in miles on the new engine this weekend, got 400 miles to go. Time to have some fun and stop working on this bronco for a little while. Holler at y'all later.
Kirk Allen Jorden
kirkallen143
Famous Member
69Falcon":2veet1ht said:
Yes sir, I get just a little flutter of the gauge at idle, the bigger fluctuations come while at cruising speeds, @ 2500rpms. I will end up trying to restrict the air bleeds w/ gauged wire next. I really just need to dyno this engine, but money is what's holding that back right now. Appreciate the reply, thank you.
Kirk Allen Jorden
A
Anonymous
Guest
Mustangaroo":19wcq5vt said:
That has become an "old wives tale". The new belief is open them as much as the ignition can handle. Ignition systems nowadays (I'm talkin' the new high end racing stuff in the last 10 years, not '70's duraspark) can handle well over .050" gap at VERY HIGH boost/HP levels.
I ran a DSII dist with a MSD 6AL and had my gaps at .035" with 22 psi and no problems.
kirkallen143":19wcq5vt said:
Actually, it is providing a false sense of security for you. Those guages only go from about 13.5 - 16, so even at "full rich" on the guage, you could be ANYWHERE under 13 something, which is really too lean for boost. Richer would not show on the gauge because it is already maxed out (that is why it is called a narrow band)
A wide band will go from 9 to 18 or so.
kirkallen143
Famous Member
Drove the bronco around Fri. for about 60 miles at regular cruising rpms and the engine had a slight miss/surge like a lean condition, this is with the 59 jets, 6.5PV and little or no boost. When the PV opens adding fuel the engine starts to come alive and run like it should, so decided to go back with 66 jets to see how it runs at normal cruising. Got as far as putting in the jets and then the metering block gasket tore and I did not have an extra. So today I'll catch up on the experimenting and let y'all know.
I would really like to run the smaller jets, but until I really know what this AFR is doing I'll keep it fat and safe.
Yes Linc, that narrow band is fixin' to be thrown out the window, but the lights still look neat bouncing all around the gauge though.
Kirk
I would really like to run the smaller jets, but until I really know what this AFR is doing I'll keep it fat and safe.
Yes Linc, that narrow band is fixin' to be thrown out the window, but the lights still look neat bouncing all around the gauge though.
Kirk
