Turbo vs. Super

[Mustang Boy]

ok if som1 were to go for all out power wut would be the best way to go about it for our little sixes would it be Will's turbo header w/ Alum head or the m90 blower with the Alum head


thanx in advanced

 

[Anonymous]

I personally know of some 32 valve "Mod Motor" 4.6 V-8 Mustangs here in Texas making 1400+ HP with a turbo and are nearly streetable. Race versions are near 2000 HP. There really isn't any possible way to do that with a supercharger.

The problem with a M90 is there isn't a kit available and you have to nearly be a machinist to make your own brackets. Making a belt STAY ON is a LOT harder than most people think.

The mechanical superchargers do have a nice feature as far as having torque that is pretty instant, but look out when you hear the "whistle" spool up because its all over for you after that!!!

 

[XFlow_Fairlane]

I think me tommy and linc have proved a working turbo can be done for CHEAP. I think I have $500 in my setup....including the holley carb and cable throttle conversion. granted I did have access to a machine shop to make my manifold but a j pipe would work just as good or even a modded stocker like tommy's mine was put together in a gravel parking lot using minimal tools (all my welding was done in the schools shop but that was only to put a flange on my piping for the BOV and to fab up a homebuilt bonnet.

I just like turbos because you can go fast on a smallish one (Tommy) or step it up to something bigger for little cost when compared to a SC. how often can you swap to a bigger SC and still use the same bracket?

I think the key thing to making either work is being able to fab up the parts yourself.

plus I am addicted to that turbo spool.

man I really need to get my car moved so I can start driving it again.

 

[Anonymous]

Another thing....an Eaton M90 isn't overly large. They are almost too small for the 3.8's they were installed on. Granted a 200 = 3.3 liters, so it is a better match, but once you reach its limit, that's the end of the line for it.

I'm also with fairlane on the fab skills needed....there is NOTHING special fabbed in my installation, or his as far as what is needed to actually make it run and make boost. I'm almost embarrassed with how simple I made my set-up, but hey - - - it works to the tune of 103 MPH in the 1/4, and that was a terrible run, too!

 

[Mustang Boy]

thanks for the help guys and when i meant the m90 i mean on the intake manifold the Mike is gonna come out with for it and i see ur guys reasonning so maybe now ill go with the turbo once mike starts producing Wills header cause this will be in a race application so it has to flow really really well better than anything i could fab up but i may fab somthing up in the mean time or i might buy tommy's once he makes himself another one like he is thinking about doing

 

[CobraSix]

I'm a huge turbo fan for a couple of reasons:

1) When you are just cruising at 65MPH and don't need boost, your engine isn't wasting power trying to make it. Basically, the turbo acts as a clutched supercharger. Power when you need it...economy when you don't.

2) They are a simple set up, very little fabrication requires.

3) No annoying S/C whining when you sit at the light. Some people like that, I don't. I want my car quiet.

Slade

 

[hasa68mustang]

I think price was the biggest thing with me, I bought the turbo for 100 shipped, I made the manifold for free minus welding gas and wire, and the carb hat was 60, and the bov was 30. I used exhaust piping that I had lying around and some of the probe turbo hoses that came with it. I wish you luck trying to do that with a supercharger. the most expensive parts were my non turbo items (msd 6al, msd coil, cam, valve springs, dual roller timing chain, valve seals, the carb, head work, shift kit and maybe another goody if everything goes as planned )

 

[Mustang Boy]

me myself i like that SC whine and i think it would be cool as hell to have the scoop stickong out of the hood off to the side i think it would make alot of people scratch their heads but i may be leaning towards a large turbo cause this will be on a mostly drag raced motor

 

[Anonymous]

me myself i like that SC whine

My uncle used to own a 1993 SC T-bird, I rode in it all the time and I don't remember hearing any whine. Same with my brother's Pontiac GTP.

 

[addo]

I think a lot of "blower whine" is actually straight cut geardrives.

Or maybe further down the driveline?

 

[XFlow_Fairlane]

I would say gear drives but don't forget linc that the gtp and sc had airboxes on them and all that were prob designed to hide that noise. But based on size and location I can see a M90 being a pretty quiet unit when compared to a paxton or vortech mounted on a bracket

 

[Bobscoupe]

When I had the eaton installed in my Mustang there was little to no whine at idle or at normal throttle but when you floored it you could hear the whine. It sounded almost like an electric motor.

Wish I had that car back I screwed up and put a V* in it and ruined it. I sold it and am working on another but it's taking me awhile.

I going slow working on suspension, 8" rear and front disks first---preparing the lower end in anticipation of Mike's aluminum head.

Bob

 

[73GreenMachine]

I wish you luck trying to do that with a supercharger. the most expensive parts were my non turbo items (msd 6al, msd coil, cam, valve springs, dual roller timing chain, valve seals, the carb, head work, shift kit and maybe another goody if everything goes as planned Wink )

Hey Tommy, do I sense some nitrous here?? Cos if it is..

It seems to me that opinion is quite divided on this subject. From what I can see different application lend themselves to different forms of forced induction for best results. Our six seems to be somewhere in the middle between the 600hp supercharged LS1 V8 and your wild SR20DET turbo, meaning to me that these engines can be geared towards either turbocharging or supercharging depending on how they are built and where you want your power. While turbocharging is generally cheaper to set up, they seem to be in general more expensive to get running reliably than running a supercharger. Personally though I'd go with the turbo because of the ease of setup and the fact that properly set up boost is incredibly addictive

73GreenMachine.

 

[Anonymous]

While turbocharging is generally cheaper to set up, they seem to be in general more expensive to get running reliably than running a supercharger.

I don't see that, since the same mods are needed on a supercharged engine (at the same boost levels).

Where "expensive" comes into play is when you turn up the boost. When I had the wastegate plumbed directly to the boosted tubing I saw 8 psi (with no boost controller) and it was still a very lively engine. I think if I would just have left it at 8 psi it would have run happily there forever.

The problem was.....I already knew what 20 psi feels like. Going back to 8 psi and staying there is like going from prime rib back to a baloney sandwich. No boost is plain boring, 8 psi is a lot of fun, but the TORQUE TORQUE TORQUE at 20 psi ...... with the car getting twisted up, getting shoved into the seat, etc. etc. etc......Its just such a HUGE rush!!

I have driven supercharged cars, like the two cars I mentioned in the post above (both automatic). They are fun and torquey, and very smooth and seamless with the power delivery. But they are so limited in how they accelerate.......It's like this: Turbo engines LOVE to be LOADED down (lugged, worked, etc). When I still had the old C-5 trans and was shifting at 4000, when it went into the next gear and lugged the engine down you could hear the turbo really spool and feel the TORQUE just multiply, like half again as much. The supercharged cars don't do that (make more torque under more load). I don't know if it feels the same in a stick shift car, but feeling the engine really dig in and "get to it" on a turbo car with an automatic is crazy fun!

 

[XFlow_Fairlane]

what I like about a turbo car is you can be running at a mid rpm range under no load and the motor is mild as can be (it is after all just running as a stock motor) but you roll on the gas as as the rpm's reach the "sweet spot" it builds power incredibly fast. nothing beats picking up 100hp in 1000rpm or less.

Iguess part of my turbo addiction comes from IL not requiring a muffler on a road going vehicle if it is equiped with a turbine in the exhaust. I guess this law was mostly for tractor trailers and such....but it makes driving a turbo car much more fun.

 

[Bobscoupe]

I can't compare because I've never driven a turbo but I loved the power change I got by adding the Tbird charger to my six. It was like night and day. N/A I could get a good squeal out of the tires when I hit second at 5500 rpm with the supercharger if I wasn't prepared I would've turned doughnuts when I hit second. It jerked sideways pretty quick.

 

[Mustang Boy]

ok now im confused about wut to do again but im leaning towards supercharging cause i like the look


and linc how long did ur motor last on 20psi of boost

 

[Anonymous]

and linc how long did ur motor last on 20psi of boost

Probably would have lasted forever if I never got into detonation....

I didn't start with a fresh engine either. It had 140,000 or 150,000 miles or something like that when I started. I honestly thought it would blow up on the first pass. But, it never even really ever "blew up". I haven't had time to mess with it. It still starts and runs fine on all six and is drivable, just is worn out.

Turbo, super......doesn't really make any difference on engine life, but a turbo engine will make the same power as a superc engine without having to work as hard (meaning if you want 300 HP at the crank, a turbo engine will get there easier, a supercharged engine has to work much harder to make the same "surplus" hp)

 

[73GreenMachine]

Where "expensive" comes into play is when you turn up the boost.

Yeah that is more correct than what I mentioned earlier. Quite a few people I know have turboed imports that don't seem to run reliably, but this seems to be more to do with the huge boost levels being ran than anything else. Apart from that, the only thing that annoys me about them is that their off boost performance is abysmal. I'm hoping that this won't be so bad on an engine with some cubes behind it rather than a 2 litre RB20DET straight six.

 

[XFlow_Fairlane]

mine has some pretty good low end to it still (more than my 4.3L s10) I think the big plus for the 200 is that it is not a high revving motor so with its low end oriented cam and such it has good off boost power.