Where I'm starting.

[David_Conwill]

Well, I've decided to stick with my six. I always knew I would, but everyone who sees my car asks - "Gonna stick a 289 in her?" so I had to at least consider the V8 route. I don't know why nobody ever says 302 or 351, I guess it's not as fun to say.

I've got a C8DA-6015-A block with a DODE-6069-A head and an Autolite DODF-B carburetor. If I'm decoding things right, that means I've got a '68 Falcon 170 with a '70 Maverick head and carburetor. This is one of the better heads for building a 200, right? It gives you 52cc combustion chambers and results in about a 9.3:1 compression ratio with a modern (thicker-than-stock) head gasket. Also, my block has the dual bolt pattern, so I can use the outer set of holes and mount up a Toploader bellhousing that will interchange with a 200 block when I go that route.

I think I have solid lifters - is it possible they kept the valvetrain from the 144 that came in the car? What should I consider doing at the outset with my 170 while I search for a good deal on a 200 block?

I have a '61 Falcon manual and the Ford Six Performance Handbook on order as I write this.

-Dave

 

[early ford fan]

the best heads are 1978 or later.bigger valves and hardened seats.you could put the bigger valves into the 1970 head.the 78 block came factory with hydralic lifters.its possable someone installed an aftermarket cam with solid lifters.solid lifter cams make the most power.if the 170 has adjustable rockers,keep them and the pushrods.

 

[Anlushac11]

Just curious but how do you know its a 170 block? No offense intended.

C9=69
D=Falcon
A=Truck division, means the part was designed by Ford's truck division.

6015=engine block

A=first revision of the block.

The head should be

D0=1970
D=Falcon
E=Engine division

6069=Cylinder head

A=first revision

Have you measured the bore to see if its 3.5" or 3.68" ?

 

[David_Conwill]

There are only three plugs in the side of the block. I'm told that, at most, only very early 200s came with three freeze plugs and the rest all had five. Therefore my assumption is that if I have a 1968-coded block with three plugs, it's a 170.

-Dave

PS I would love to be wrong and discover I have a 200.

 

[Anlushac11]

I guess my confusion stems from the fact that I thought all inline six blocks cast after 1965 had five freeze plugs and seven mains.

I thought 3 plugs just meant it was a 4 main block and not the better 7 main block.

 

[David_Conwill]

I guess my confusion stems from the fact that I thought all inline six blocks cast after 1965 had five freeze plugs and seven mains.

Now that I’ve not heard. I thought only the 200s got seven mains and five freeze plugs, and the 170s kept four mains and three freeze plugs.

I thought 3 plugs just meant it was a 4 main block and not the better 7 main block.

That would be consistent with what I’ve heard - that only very early (i.e. four-main) 200s had three freeze plugs, whereas all 170s have three freeze plugs. Because my block has a 1968 date code, it should be well into the seven-main/five-plug era, and thus if it has four mains and three plugs, it’s a 170.

Clear as mud?

-Dave

 

[CZLN6]

Howdy Back David and All:

Thanks for your order. I can offer a couple FYIs to your quest. The DOxx casting is unique to the later/last of the 170s. According to FoMoCo it was the 170 head for 1970 thru 1972, the last year of production for the 170 engine. We liked the castings for the smaller, "Kidney bean" shaped chambers, and 52 cc chambers. It was advertized as a 9.1:1 CR in '70. The advertized Cr went down to 8.7:1 in '71 and 8.3:1 in '72 model year. All very interesting as all were fairly identical to each other. I think some of the later 170s may have got 200 head casting, as the DOxx were used up. The downside for the DOxx casting is that it only has 1.68 intake valves, with very little room for larger ones, and they were very badly shrouded. This may be a good head to maintain CR in a 200, but top-end flow will suffer. Have you run numbers on the compression calculator on our website?

A '68 block casting should have been plumbed for hydraulic lifters. That is not to say that someone could not have changed them out for solids. What makes you think you have solid lifters?

Keep it comming and enjoy.

Adios, David

 

[David_Conwill]

Thanks for your order.

Thanks for writing the book, I can’t wait to read it. I think I’ve checked my USPS tracking number four times today!

The DOxx casting...may be a good head to maintain CR in a 200, but top-end flow will suffer. Have you run numbers on the compression calculator on our website?

Points to ponder, certainly. I’m kind of interested in upping my compression ratio, as I find that high-compression engines like the ethanol in the local gasoline, and I’ve even been tempted in the E85 direction.

So what is your preference: compression or flow? What’s a good-flowing head. Ideally, I’d like to build my 200 and swap it into the Falcon all at once, as opposed to swapping in a 200 and then rodding it in place, so getting a different head for the swap would almost be preferable to using the one that’s currently atop my 170.

I hadn’t stumbled upon the compression calculator yet in my drunkard’s search for info.

A '68 block casting should have been plumbed for hydraulic lifters. That is not to say that someone could not have changed them out for solids. What makes you think you have solid lifters?

Just the valve-train noise. It reminds me of my Dad’s LT-1 ‘69 Corvette, but I’m not sure I’ve ever heard a known-hydraulic-lifter Ford Six for comparison.

-Dave

 

[early ford fan]

i understand with e85 your tank and lines need to be stainless or plastic because the acohol draws moisture which causes rust.gasahol ruined the fi on a rabbit i had.

 

[David_Conwill]

E10 ("gasahol") is the standard around here and I've never had a problem. I have heard alcohol will attack natural rubber in fuel systems, however.

Conventional wisdom is to start running E85, and then replace things as they get eaten.

-Dave

 

[Anlushac11]

Lots of people have said they are not having problems with lots of corrosion in steel and aluminum but alcohol will eat rubber, you need to get Hypalon lines which are synthetic material.

David if your block turns out to be a seven main 170 I would be interested in getting a hold of that crankshaft. if you ever decide to get rid of it.

 

[CZLN6]

Howdy Back:

David- You asked "So what is your preference: compression or flow?" My response would be BOTH!!! There are better ways to optimize CR than using your DOxx head. But if you're intent on using this head here's what I'd do- stick with the stock size small valves and optimize flow by using at least a three angle seat, back cut the intake valves and smoothe and blend the transition from cast to machined in the port throats. Smoothing and polishing the chambers will also help to minimize pre-ignition.

I have to ask. What is your goal for this engine? Mileage? performance? or both? The later D heads have the advantage of a larger intake valve, hardened valve seats, a larger carb bore, and greater intake tract volume. They can be safely milled up to .090" to attain about any reasonable CR goal.

The best way to gain a higher and get more effecient combustion is to Deck the block to zero and then mill the head to CR goal.

What carb do you plan on using? You referred to a "Autolite DODF-B carburetor". If I'm not mistaken the DODF-B is a Carter YF from 1970. Beginning in 1970 Carter YFs became the standard carb on all 170s and 200s.

What is your elevation? That is an important consideration in deciding on a CR goal, even with 10% gasahol and/or E85.

On the valve train noise, time, wear and lack of maintainance can cause excessive wear and sticking that can lead to alot of valve clatter. That is why many people have added to pre-65 adjustible rockaer arms to later hydraulic valve engines. The adjustment allows a tuner to optimize vavle lift and to minimize lifter pump up.

Keep the info coming and we'll keep trying to help you with your quest.

Adios, David

 

[David_Conwill]

There are better ways to optimize CR than using your DOxx head.

I probably won’t use it, then. I have no emotional investment in it, and keeping it on the 170 and the 170 running until I’m ready to swap in a built-up 200 are more important to me. This is my daily driver, so I want to minimize downtime.

I have to ask. What is your goal for this engine? Mileage? performance? or both?

I guess you could say both. A lot of time has passed since these engines were new. I’d like to maximize efficiency and performance without adding complication (with the exception of triple carbs - I really would like triple carbs). As I said, this is my daily driver. I don’t want to give up performance for added fuel economy, but I’ve also got a V8 Camaro for those days I want speed, so this won’t be a total hot rod either. I just want to eliminate the compromises that are inherent when something is built on assembly line.

The later D heads have the advantage of a larger intake valve, hardened valve seats, a larger carb bore, and greater intake tract volume. They can be safely milled up to .090" to attain about any reasonable CR goal.

What identifies these heads? I’m attending a swap meet next weekend, and would like to keep my eyes open.

The best way to gain a higher and get more effecient combustion is to Deck the block to zero and then mill the head to CR goal.

Good to know. My previous engine-building experience was the 327 in my Camaro, so I am more used to specifying high-compression pistons.

What carb do you plan on using? You referred to a "Autolite DODF-B carburetor". If I'm not mistaken the DODF-B is a Carter YF from 1970. Beginning in 1970 Carter YFs became the standard carb on all 170s and 200s.

I’m open to suggestions on this. My requirements are that I be able to readily source replacement parts, I retain the manual choke, and I be able to run triples. I was thinking Holley 1904s, but keeping the YF and adding two more is something I’d consider too.

What is your elevation? That is an important consideration in deciding on a CR goal, even with 10% gasahol and/or E85.

Wikipedia says Caro (where I live) is 725 feet above sea level and Bay City (where I work) is 525 feet above sea level.

On the valve train noise, time, wear and lack of maintenance can cause excessive wear and sticking that can lead to a lot of valve clatter. That is why many people have added to pre-65 adjustable rocker arms to later hydraulic valve engines. The adjustment allows a tuner to optimize valve lift and to minimize lifter pump up.

Hmm, I suppose that’s possible, but I have receipts indicating the engine was rebuilt in 1999 and was told the car sat from 2001 to last summer, when it was driven a few hundred miles. When my repair manual gets here, I was planning to check to make sure things were within spec.

Keep the info coming and we'll keep trying to help you with your quest.

I certainly will. I appreciate all the help.

-Dave

 

[CZLN6]

Howdy Back:

Good info. "What identifies these heads?" Look for a casting code of D8 and later.

At those elevations, with the cylinder pressures of a stock cam, you will likely need to stay in the 9:1 compression ratio. Even at that you will need to do some things to minimize Knock. Decking the block to zero will help with quench effect. Smoothing the chambers will help too. Upgrading to a performance cam will help most, in reducing cylinder pressure. It also hurts low end torque, but higher CR will help to offset that. Are you ok with running premium gas? gasahol will help too. Alcohol runs cooler and adds a little to the octane rating of whatever grade of gas it is added to.

Running a tri-carb set up can be very economical, so long as the combo is tuned well, with a progressive linkage and you drive it conservatively. Driving it conservatively will be the hard part!!! I love the Holley #1904s with the glass float bowls. Have you given any thought to what ignition system you plan to use? What transmission? What rearend gearing?

Adios, David

 

[David_Conwill]

I got my book this weekend. Gosh what a great resource. It answered lots of my questions, including quite a few that I hadn’t gotten around to asking yet.

"What identifies these heads?" Look for a casting code of D8 and later.

I’ll add that to my shopping list for this weekend.

Upgrading to a performance cam will help most, in reducing cylinder pressure. It also hurts low end torque, but higher CR will help to offset that.

My plan is to keep my good-running 170 as a tuned-up stocker with a header until I get my 200 together. Since I’m under no pressure to swap it out, when it comes time to start on my 200, I’m gonna do a ground-up build and not make any compromises. So a performance cam is definitely in the works.

Are you ok with running premium gas?

Yup. The little six I’m sure will still beat my 327 for mileage given its smaller displacement and the Falcon’s lighter weight.

I love the Holley #1904s with the glass float bowls.

Me too, my only concern is my ability to find/assemble a matched trio. On the triple-carburetor setups, are people normally filling in the idle circuits on the outside carburetors? Most of my research has been with regard to the Rochester 2GC setups, so I’m not terribly familiar with one-barrel carbs.

Have you given any thought to what ignition system you plan to use?

Well, as I’m keeping the 170 for a while, I’ve been toying with the idea of going with a Pertronix Ignitor I in the OE distributor. I’m quite satisfied with the Ignitor I in my Camaro and I’m not sure I’ve got the time to go searching for a Duraspark II - if one will even fit a ‘68 170.

OTOH, I haven’t closely examined my distributor yet - it may be that whoever put together the engine in there at the moment took the time to supply a Duraspark II.

What transmission?

I’m planning to do a Modern Driveline T5 swap. A synchronized first gear, more gears, and an overdrive are going to be very good for the car, I believe.

What rearend gearing?

It’s currently a 3.10 if the door plate is to be believed, and I’m inclined to based on the RPM it’s running. I’m in no hurry to swap it out, though perhaps my feelings will change once I have taller rear tires.

-Dave

 

[CZLN6]

Howdy Back:

So as not to get the cart before the horse- "My plan is to keep my good-running 170 as a tuned-up stocker with a header until I get my 200 together." I'm going to offer you some suggestions to get the most out of you 170 for the time being. Is your 170 trans an auto or manual?

The Carter YFs are rated at 150 cfm for 170 engines and 187 cfm for 200s. The only difference is on the inside. The diameter of the venturi throat. Externally they look very different. The OEM '68 distributor is a point type and could benefit from an Ignitor, along with an additional 5 degrees of initial advance over stock specifications. Lightening the centrifugal advance return springs so that centrifugal advance comes in sooner will also help. These two upgrades will definitely increase your SPG (Smiles Per Gallon).

On you lifter noise, I'd be very suspicious of stuck lifter because it sat for so long after the rebuild. Start by running a high detergent crankcase additive once you get it running to try to loosen them up. Also remove the valve cover and watch the rocker arms as the engine is turned over and/or running. Watch for oil to ooze out of each rocker on start up. The oil travels from the back rockers to the front. If you don't get oil to the front rocker within a few seconds on a cold startup, you may need to do a good rocker shaft and rocker arm disassembly and cleaning. I had a 200 that had a stuck lifter, so I just adjusted the rocker arm as if it were a solid lifter. Ironically, it started to work within a few month and then would pump-up. I've been told by grayer heads then mine that this is NOT typical, and that this is not unusual. Go figure.

Adios, David

 

[David_Conwill]

I'm currently running a 2.77 3-speed. I got a somewhat cryptic e-mail back from Modern Driveline regarding the T5 swap today. I’d like to do the trans swap ASAP, as having a synchronized first gear and an overdrive will be a great boon to driveability (though I will miss the column shift).

The more I listen to my “lifter noise” the more I think it might actually be the electric fuel pump I’m hearing, as it doesn’t seem to change with RPM.

-Dave

 

[David_Conwill]

Okay, my plan is starting to solidify: I’d like to add triple carbs, a header, a better camshaft and a five-speed manual (I’m thinking about a 4-cylinder S10 transmission to get the lower first gear).

I’ve been thinking of picking up an early head to get the smaller combustion chamber volume (I’m shooting for about 10:1 compression) and the round intake (for the vintage look). Is it possible to put bigger valves in one of these heads to help them breathe better? Will I get any benefit from bigger valves on a 170 daily driver? I’m not really revving it to the moon.

I realize there are better heads out there that will provide bigger valves out of the box, but indulge me, please.

-Dave