Which carburator is better?

papawsfalcons

Active member
My son is in the process of putting my cross flow in my Ranchero. He wants the ADM 38 I want the Autolite 2100 that came off my US 250 or get a 32/36? Thanks
 

xctasy

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This following response is not sarcastic and will help you.

1. They Alloy Head 250 X flow was the first alloy head engine in Fords empire. It was before the Escort 1600 CVH, before the Essex 90 degree 3.8 liter Vee Six. It was designed and built by Honda to Fords brief.

2. Every year, the engine had HUGE
A emissions gear,
B ignition,
C carb/induction,
D combustion chamber,
E compression ratio and
F Transmission and gearing changes.

3. When one really intelligent American asked me to simplify the 2 bbl carb system and delete the fuel return line and emissions gear while fitting an AOD 4 speed so it would all bundle up into a 64 Econoline, I gave him his money back.

4. When I did modifications to my X flow, I decided to do a lot of very different things to my engine, and the Service and Parts Tech said "If you know more than the FoMoCo, enjoy yourself".

I then duly melted the cylinder head casting to cylinder 5 and blew the head gasket. With 100 octane fuel and it was winter.

5. Be warned, the Australian engines were year specific and optimized from 1980 to 1985 only for 97 octane high lead gasoline, and the ADM 34 2 bbl carb was NEVER designed to operate with a down shift cable for a C4. The two never went togethet. This creates s bullet you cannot didge except by engineering a soloution. Because that ADM 34 doesnt match your C4.

They are incompatable with a C4 trans unless you use the factory solution the US solved. The Pinto downshift parts and that means copying the Pinto C4 downshift cable or downshift rod.

If your emissions, carb, induction, chambers, compression ratio, gearing arent the same as when it left the factory, then you know more than the FoMoCo. Ford had huge hot fuel handling and ignition problems with 250 sixes. They fixed them all each year with very specific changes to A, B, C, D, E and F. If it has been decided to Pick and Mix parts from the aggreed build year, then you will suffer heat soak, hot fuel handling problems and potential detonation issues which will result in typical detonation like problems. Head gasket failure, piston cracking, conrod bearing failure and poor hot starting and dieselling.

If you use the Weber 34 ADM with its anti dieseling idle stop soleniod and uts Bosch alternator powered electric choke snd uts bleed back line which gies to the bleed back Carter fuel pump with return line (which goes to the fuel tank like on an Air Conditioned 2.3 liter Fox fiur cylinder), the factory Australian Bosch 61 series electronic Duraspark, the modifications to make the factory kickdown work with your transmission, the right EGR valve, the right PCV, the evaporative emissions can and purge valve (one from a 1978 to 1980 F150 will do ), an air cleaner with heat stove, and the two three leg plastic fittings which operate the green, red and blue colored lines to the carb...

You will be happy if you run it on s diet of 98 octane high test gas. Thats 93 octane with some 103 Plus.

If not, and you want to fit a 2100 2bbl and dodge detonation bullets, then.....


Enjoy yourself...



APKPD.jpg



Ill post the details from Gregories Service Manual #226.

Dont mix and match parts on any cross flow six...you dont know what your messing with.
 

xctasy

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Since 2009 till present day, Ken, I have asked for a lot of part numbers and details so I can help you out. Eleven n years is too long for you not to have the answers you seek.


I hope I haven't been the problem.

You were keen to relocate the alternator into a non standard position, which is fairly easy. You cannot use the 1975-1980 US 250 Ford bracket or the power steering bracket. So your on your own here.


None of these has been fully given to me, so I cannot help you out fully, but I 'll keep givin' it my best shot. (y)


Basically, you have told me in the past you have said its 1975 or 1985 Cross flow, but then you say its a 2bbl 85 cross flow, and no cross-flows were made in 1975.

JG23FA 202 90 C above altenator on in OZ would be driver side. The head seam to be alumium

JG=Ford Australia a Falcon engine made before 1986, made in Geelong, the Broadmeadows Main assembly line
23= Falcon GL
F= 1985 in this case
A= 6th Character is the Month of the build July in this case
The next 5 numbers and a letter are the CUN or Serial Number
20290C.

From you info, I don't know if its a 3.3 or 4.1 liter engine.

So we have these questions still to answer:


Do I need to check the stroke? How do I tell if it has low or high compresion with out the Vin number. Also I have the Webber 34 ADM and did not find a kit in US. I put it on the motor and would not run. Does the electrical have to be hooked up. Can single componits to make up a kit be bought in US. IF not how expencive is shipping.Thanks again ,Ken.

1. Yes, you need to check the stroke by measuring a wire drop from top dead center to bottom dead center. The engine may be a 3.3 liter/ 200 Cross flow, may or may not be a 4.1 liter 250 Cross flow. The crank and distributor tell you, the sump has to be dropped to check.

2. You have not told me the part numbers on the distributor yet

3. I haven't been told if you have a Borg Warner Model 35, or 40 tag on the Automatic transmission.

4. You have not told me if the head casting stamp number is. It should be alloy.
If its alloy, then there are five types

5. I have no idea what intake manifold you have, it should be an Alloy head 2bbl,

6. Does it have a knock sensor in the battery earth on the passenger side front head bolt?


7. It should have a C1 or C1A stamped on the head between the #1 and #2 inlet ports.. these have a 49-50cc chamber and are the best of all the x-flow heads..

Your pistons will have a 15cc dish to give 9.35:1 comp..

it was rated from factory with 141 hp net at 3800rpm and 233 ft-lb net at 2600rpm.


This engine wont run on 89 or 91 octane pump gas.


If your engine is a mix of parts as I suspect, then you have five options to pursue to fix the carb.

You cannot mix and match ignitions

You cannot mix and match heads and intakes

You cannot mix and match C4 gearboxes with the Borg Warner 35 or 40 if you use a 1982-1992 Alloy head 2bbl intake manifold unless you do a C4 downshift rod or cable upgrade

Your coil depends on what one of five ignition systems you have on your engine.


If someone has supplied a Orange or black cap Australian Bosch Duraspark, it will work.

If you have a grey color TFi, then you need an Electronic Spark Control computer. I'm certain this is what you have. It needs an EST module to work.

Below, without pictures, is what it takes to run a cross flow engine on unleaded USA gasoline.

The engine has to be alloy head, and the engine must be physically decompressed to 8.8:1 compression to run on 91 octane, and down to 8.5:1 to run on 89 octane.



The pictures are no longer linked, but I did discuss some of it back in April 2009. I see its X-flow_Fairlane's old 4.1 liter engine. That means it may have his old EFi head.

bs250__v2.jpg

bs250__v1.jpg




See viewtopic.php?f=3&t=57005&p=438323#p438323


viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9962&p=69415&hilit=Cross+flow+ignition#p6941
xctasy":1hla7yec said:
Okay guys. The existing vacuum hoses to the 34 ADM Weber seem to really hack people off! The Holley will take the fittings, but you need to know what each circuit does before it gets bolted up. The are best left on the car. Don't merely assume emissions gear is an Evil Smog Nazi kill-joy, as you'll end up with it running worse without it.

I've got some data here which show you what the existing set-up is for a New South Wales Emissions per 1986 XF Falcon without Air Con.

There are a few systems to note, and I'd much rather you all read through the Gregories #226 Shop Manual on XF Falcons from 1984 to March 1993. Pages 248 to 256, and the shop data from 76, 88 and 89. The book is first rate, and explains each circuit in detail. A must have!

Below are the systems for your benefit, lovingly copied by my own hands. It's untidy, but I'll get it sorted sometime.

Please note. The stock Weber 34 ADM carb has a blead back return line to ensure the carb doesn't get any more than 3.5psi (24 kPa) of pressure. All Ford Carter fuel pumps produce about 7 psi (52 kPa) or pressure. Use the pre alloy head fuel pump, as there is no need for bleadback. Holleys don't have blead back systesms.


<<<<This is a Non Air Con NSW pre unleaded 1986 Emmission ciruit diagram. Note:

1. the PVS (Ported Vaccum Switch)

2. the Delay Valve ( NSW emission gear, colored according to application)

3. the Sustain Valve

4. the Vacuum /Vacuum switch

5. the PCV valve (Positive Crankcase Ventilation valve)

6. the VPV (Vapour Purge control valve for Evaporative emissions which controls the burn off of the charcoal canisters hydrocarbons.

7. the Vacuum amplifier

8. the EGR valve (Exhast gas recirculation)

These systems are vital, and the emissions reduction is simply huge with these fitted. Without the evaporative emissions, the car will pollute more than 35% more hydrocarbons into the atmosphere.


<<<< Table of color coded Emmissions gear. All this allows you to choose the correct replacement part. If its defective, it will cost performance and economy. If it works, it will warm up and operate the way Ford Oz intended. Million dollar investments shouldn't be scapped because we are too lazy to give a sh!+ about emissions.

<<<<< Carby jetting for the stock ADM. There are four basic types of pre unleaded ADM carbs, plus later unleaded carbs. The unleaded ones are in brackets. It's rough, but will get tidied up sometime soon I hope.

<<<<<Evaporative emissions, EGR and VPV workings

<<< The Spark Sustain system, a lovely NSW inclusion.
 

papawsfalcons

Active member
I need to have my Son get under the car to get imformation on the tranmission and get better picture of distributor(and numbers) then measure the stroke. I am getting over a back injury hard to get bent over some areas.On the transmission it did not have a dip stick or tube I bought on for C-4 so does that mead it is not a Borg Warner? I think I need the numbers off the block. WOW I did not realize this project was taking this long. And I do Thank you for ALL the imformation!
 

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rocklord

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Supporter 2018
You have a C1 head. The C1 head has a kidney shaped combustion chamber with a 47-49cc volume.
 

xctasy

5K+
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Yep: rocklord is right.

Are you stuck budget wise on doing the very least to getting this car running? What are you and your sons goals?

Ok, I think your 9.35:1 compression ratio will demand Hi test Unleaded at all times. That is 93 octane with a shot of 103Plus or similar octane booster every tank full. Do you have a local supply of hi test?

Your ignition is the correct one for an 85 model year XF Falcon Alloy Head II. It is a fully electronic system which is linked to a Ford Electronic Spark timing unit mounted on the firewall which takes electronic pressure readings from the green intake manifold sensor.

You will have to convert the ignition over to an MSD 6AL control unit because its missing the EST unit Ford used which runs off the green colored MAP sensor on the intake manifold. The engine should have come with all the parts.

Im so happy your recovery is going okay.

Your gearbox is a BorgWarner Model 40 or 42, same as AMC's till 1972.

I have two spare Weber ADM 34 carbs and intakes and can see yours is sadly missing parts and you have to consider your cheapest option going forward.

I personally think you should use a Carter BBD 2bbl carb with an adapter and the kickdown cable from a 1970 to 1981 Australian 245/265 Hemi Valiant or a 258 2bbl AMC Jeep. There is an aircleaner which will fit.

Ill get back to you when Ive checked the other options you have.

The Autolite 2100 is way too wide to fit easily, and may give you hot fuel handling problems.
 

xctasy

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papawsfalcons":3fest63p said:
are the parts for kick down easy to find. what about changing to a C-4. Lots of questions lots to learn!!! Thanks!

Yes. Keep the stock BW 40 trans. All the parts are easy to get.

Im busy since Im back to work after the Level 4 lockdown here.

I see your accelerator cabke issue as well.

I think your solution is the 1972 Ford Cortina 2 liter Pinto throttle linkage for the Borg Warner 35. I'll get back to you

Im thinking that it will be best to keep the Weber ADM 34.

What fuel pump do you have. Is it a Carter with a return line?
 

papawsfalcons

Active member
Two quick off the wall questions. What transmission fluid in the Borg-Warner. And I have had this engine running with no box on the distrubutor, Is the normal? Thanks.
 

xctasy

5K+
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Type F or Dexron 3.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=80766&p=627489#p627489

All XF Falcons with carbs used an EST distributor with the last three numbers #602.

If you could please have your son check and answer the question I asked back in 2016, then I can help you.

Just the Motorcraft number stamped on the metal thanks.
If you dont have the Ford parts that go with it, then your in for an expensive excercise.

The 9 degrees advance will allow the engine to start and work to about 2000 rpm. I showed the system in another post in 2014. When you needed the green and red wire purposes. The spark timing unit increases the spark timing.

We discussed the ignition four years ago.

/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=75528

There are pictures in addos post.

The ignition needs a control unit.

See http://kustombitz.mobile034.com/p/70644 ... 640mv.html
 

xctasy

5K+
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You have a few options on carbs.


20200430_053415.jpg



Holley Series 2300/Auotlie 2100/Motorcraft 2150.


20200430_053329.jpg



32/36 Dg series Weber with Right Hand Primary Barrel Actuation (not the same as Pinto 2000, Capri 2000GT, or Fox 2300 carb


The Factory Weber ADM 34 has the same barrel actuation as the Fox/Ranger/Courier 2300 Lima Holley Weber 5200/6200 versions used by Ford. ie. Left Hand Primary Barrel Actuation

20200430_053109.jpg


Left The ADM 34 Left Hand Primary Barrel Actuation
Middle the 32/36 Weber DGAV3 Right Hand Primary Barrel Actuation
Righ in background, The Holley 350/500 2300 series 2bbl. Simultaneous 2bbl.
 

xctasy

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Now the question I asked. #13 by xctasy » Wed Oct 19, 2016

viewtopic.php?t=75528

xctasy":1j53ef98 said:
papawfalcon":1j53ef98 said:
CODE#? on the distrubitor?


Yeah, behind the plastic cover!

Bosch made the distributor with a Motorcraft name, and Ford called it Duraspark, but its actually a 61 Bosch points distributor with new 64 part number, and 61 state spark amplifyer. The suffix 9-230-064 707 and 9-230-061 707 should match

9-230-064-705 came out of a 3.3 or 4.1 auto falcon or TF Cortina high comp engine.
9-230-064-707 XE 4.1 auto
9-230-064-710 manual 3.3
9-230-064-711 4.1 auto
9-230-064-716 came out of a XE 4.1 auto


One of my many engines an XE 4.1 auto

IMG_8763.jpg


with HF2 head, and its got "9-230-064-707" stamped on the distributor.


I'll post photos soon.

IMG_8768.jpg


IMG_8767.jpg


IMG_8766.jpg


IMG_8765.jpg


These are the only distributors that fit under the intake and do not require another Electronic Spark Timing part to produce a proper 35 degree advance at 3500rpm.



You most likely have a #602, which has this cap. I've seen that you have this.



XF_DIZZY_CAP.jpg



XF_DIZZY_CAP_V2.jpg



Your issue is that the EST disributor requires another MAP/EsST governed part, which you dont have.


XE_XF__XF_EFI_DIZZY_CAP_V2.jpg


The solution is the stock 1985 Ford EST or this one


XF__602non_EFI_DIZZY_CAP_V2.jpg
 

xctasy

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Ive done a Holley 2300 500 cfm 4412 swap before, with a Hemi 265 BW 35 kickdown cable.


It was a Propane install, with no electric choke


a0dce746-a8c5-49c2-82aa-d7015d1ce68f-jpg.597400



xflow_intake_plenumb_volume_1435_1500_1544_1610_1830_2bbl_4412_throttle_body-jpg.597402
 

papawsfalcons

Active member
Tried to post pic from my e-mail did not work. Can I use the MSD 6al(?) Do you still need numbers on the distubuter?The ICE posted is not in the budjet, My son thinks his buddy has a MSD 6al. And the ADM 34 needs parts or. And the Autolite 2100 will not work it will not adapt? I getting confused . And Thankful for the help. Want to give all imformation.
 

xctasy

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Its okay.

A emissions gear, 
B ignition, 
C carb/induction, is what we will work on

The go forward is to not spend 700 bucks on your ignition, and to make your High Compression 9.4 to 1 compression engine work for you.

If you try to change the carb, then you'll have five other things to change. For example, if you change the carb, then your new carb has to suit the Borg Warner 40 kickdown.

To fit an Autolite 2100 two barrel requires a half inch spacer to move the intake manifold outwards to the drivers side spring tower. On my picture above, I added a 1/4 inch spacer and just got a Holley 500 cfm 2 bbl on the intake, but its got no cold start choke because there was no space.

The change of carb requires some fuel pump changes.

One last question before I give you a suggestion on what to do.

Q:-Do you have a stock Carter fuel pump with the big vapour return line on the top?

If you could tell me that, I can then help you work through all this.

Done right, an Aussie 4.1 makes great power and economy. You do have to work on

One change influences everything else.
 

xctasy

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First, lets have a look at the parts on your Weber ADM 34.

It has an Electronic Coolant temperature sensor input. And a combined red wire circiut of A fuel flow sensor, an idle stop solenoid and an anti-dieseling solenoid.


20200501_054446.jpg




The back of the carb and intake have a passenger side accelerator cable designed for a Right Hand Drive car. And a kick-down /down shift cable bracket, which operates from the long lever on the primary Drivers sde Barrel of the 2bbl carb, just below the green electric choke.

20200501_054355.jpg



With a Fox 2.3 liter accelerator cable and bracket and part of a 2-bbl 5200/6200 2bbl carb, you can get your Ranchero accelerator working easily.



09-1982-Ford-Fairmont-Coupe-Down-On-the-Junkyard-Picture-courtesy-of-Murilee-Martin-550x412.jpg


39877384543_b0ef5d25b4_c.jpg



45732013982_aef0182d27_c.jpg



46824468782_f522049888_c.jpg




The Holley Weber Drivers side primary linkage and the whole 1978-1982 Accelerator cable will get your ADM 34 working without having to convert anything.

That's your first problem solved. Having an Accelerator and kick-down cable that work without futzing around.
 

xctasy

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Again,
A emissions gear,
B ignition,
C carb/induction, is only what we will work on Ken

Question 1. Do you have an air-cleaner to go with your Weber ADM 34 carb?


Question 2 . Are you able to find a Fox body four eyed Zephyr/Fairmont/Mustang/Capri or 1982 Ford Courier 2.3 carb throttle cable and linkage Ken?

Its the easiest solution.

Question 3. Can you please just double check the ignition part number as well?

I think your distributor is the right one. I was worried some one put the red circled one, the # 602 EST from the wrong engine.

est%20ford.jpg


Efiandgeneral004.jpg


Efiandgeneral005.jpg


Question 4. Is your fuel pump like this?

250XFlowReturnLineCarterFuelPump.jpg


Or this?

AUS Bendix Carter A31223







I've got you covered for any thing you want to do. I've done it all to the X flow. Turbos, propane, carbs, anything.


For example,

Here is the 2 BBL CarterBDB /Autolite 2100/Motorcraft 2150 /Holley 2300 series 7448/4412 adapter for that carb on the cross flow.

post-218-131072847927146070.jpg

post-218-13107285171083411613.jpg


It's a mount for a Propane carb which I have used on all my six cylinder carb cars. I've been using the same type since 1996.


Just know we can do whatever you want, but if you go 2bbl Autolite 2100 1.08, you\ll have to put a huge alloy spacer on the intake for it to fit. Then do the Chrysler/AMC down shift cable bracket.

So have a think about what you want to do.

Some more examples.

266289_10150255828401641_691356640_7860090_5756460_o.jpg


DSC02853.jpg


DSC02367.jpg


I had to use an extended drive shaft to avoid my Impco Propane Carb and V6 Cologne 2-bbl Solex base plate.


I got so sick of the drama, I decided to make my own in line six carburation systems because FoMoCo made adopting anything else nearly impossible.


You could do this, but I'm certain we can get your engine running with just a few 2.3 liter OHC carb parts.

Please feel free to post and respond to Questions 1, 2 and 3.


The solutions are very simple, but between 1980 and 1987, there were huge changes to A, B and C, and for a car running on unleaded low octane gas, it is absolutely fatal to put wrong emissions, ignition, and carb/induction systems together on a 9.4:1 high compression 1985 250 X flow engine. I assure you we can fix this easily.
 

papawsfalcons

Active member
Ok I will try some answers. 1. no air cleaner,2.throttel linkage I can order.3.distributer is the one on the right red and green wire only no plug-in.Thats not my fuel pump. It must have been replaced. You know I am slow at getting anything done. I do not get under a car by myself and can only lean over the engine bay afew minutes. I also need a carby base gasket for the Webber. Most employees at Auto parts stores are not always knowing . Also trying to get a different thermostat housing ( with a different angle ) And can not find demsions on mounting holes to get the right one. I am looking at one for a 429 but do not want to buy 2 or 3. THANK YOU!!!
 
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