XF EFI HEADS

[Anonymous]

The head on my engine that i'm driving has the numbers 569D cast into the front of the head and the numbers QQ051 stamped also at the front of head .I have a spare head with 541C and J016 . Can anyone tell me what these numbers mean? Are the heads interchangable? does one out perform the other? mods? anything?

 

[yeah right]

Hmmm - not sure on the numbers but I think they changed from leaded to unleaded in 86 - and the EFI head has bigger valves. I had my XF EFI head off a month back but didn't not the numbers. I'm sure XECUTE or ADDO would be able to help you though - they're fountains of knowledge - useful knowledge - which is pretty rare these days!!!

 

[xctasy]

Casting Numbers:-

Sorry, I don't know! We touched on it with Tommo back in 10 Feb 2003, but there were few takers in the info stakes. I was little help then as well.

One is a date code, then there is a plant code. Dunno which! The external casting number is likely to be Hondas batch number for the heads, and that may cover what batch of moulds were used when they pressure die cast it in Japan. Discokin6 broke out the block and engine number codes a while back.

My project engine, originally a 4.1 Alloy Head II from a late XE, has '321' stamped on the boss above the water pipes to the heater and manifold, JO68 on the water thermostat boss and 534B cast on the front of the head in big letters. It is cast HF5 on the flat area above no.5 cylinder with the rocker cover off.

My XE sedan runs a'321' stamped on the auxhiliary hoses boss, date stamped 73YD casting, and haven't had the rocker cover off it since 1997 to check the head casting number.

Other XF heads commonly run boss stamps of '123687', any kind of date stamp, and an external casting C2A on some.

(You have to waste 15 bucks and two days of 15 minutes reclamping to lift the rocker cover to see the stamping number. HF 6 or HF7, I think. Pre unleaded fuel was the HF5.)

I'm making a big guess that the heads last casting boss number is the revision code, but I'd say:-


Your QQ051 569D head should be a post 86 XF HF 7 head (Unleaded)

Your J016 541C should be an 85 XF HF 6 head (pre-unleaded).

Heads to modify:-

*Ford pumped $$$ into this XF casting. I'd not change it for an earlier head unless I knew what I was doing!

* The XD and XE Alloy head (HF 2, 3, 4 and 5) is reputed to be the best to modify, but it is not the best for power and economy unmodified. They love the later big valves from the XF's, and with this modifcation, they flow better air-flow numbers than the same XF head. On an XD or XE or XF running 96 octane Oz Brew, they are less detonation prone if you muck up the ignition and raise the compression too much for our crappy fuel. On an XF, you may have a severe detonation problem to deal with because I think the XF runs a pretty agressive spark advance.

* The XF head has more power and has the best fuel economy but needs the correct ignition and compression and electronic control mechanisms to work. If you dump an XE or XD head on an XF, you run a risk of detonation setting in. Few of the head modifying set have figured out how to make the shrouded XF hi-swirl compustion head flow big air without ruining the mixture motion which stops detonation.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanx for that info. That helps heaps. I think i'll stick with the later model
combo. The JO16 is a HF5. I havent had the cover off the other one.Do the XF combos appreciate cam mods on an other wise standard engine?

 

[xctasy]

Any alloy head loves lift and duration. No problem if you use the right springs and show some discipline by never going over 5400 rpm. With perfect approach and departure port angles, they love bigger cams, but it is very conditional on the engine size and if its carby or EFI, the trans type and gearing. Get it wrong, and a 256 degree cam like mine on a stock six will walk all over someones 280 degree cam.

*If its manual, a 30/70 {280 degree (total)} cam with less than 215 degrees duration at 50 thou should be okay. Just be aware that Crow, Wade, Camtech and other cam grinders don't like having to refund cams that don't work properly, so they generally don't go over 25/65 or 270 degrees with EFI combos. Dick Johnston's ill-fated SVO XF project car, in a Feb 1987 Wheels mag, ran an EFI XF unleaded engine with the T5 and a huge 2.77:1 diff. It had a 280 degree cam, and no EFI modifications. Other engine builders find that if you go over 180 hp on an EFI, you get fuel delivery or miss-phased injector pulses, causing drivablity problems.

*If its a carby, then a screamer cam is okay. Any auto will languish with a 280 degree cam. The first gear is just too tall with power steering, air conditioning and the stock converter...you'll end up with a staggering pig off line. I think the 3-speeder is a handicap with any cammed 4.1. You either have to drop to 3.23:1 gears and loose some of the relaxed open road cruising, or shell out coin on a 4 or 5-speed gearbox.

*4 -speed auto swaps are in there infancy with the Ford 200/250 sixes. A cammed six would be perfect with a light and strong THM 700 gearbox. No conversion kits yet, but Rod Hadfield at CRS would do one at the drop of a hat if your keen.

* When you cam a big six, it needs a wider spread of ratios than the C4 or BW autos can provide.

*The Weber ADM starts to look very small on an engine that can get close to 200 hp with just a cam, carb and headers swap.

Cam swapping is the total package. The cam grinder is the one you want to talk with!

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks again, i'll have a chat to a cam grinder after i get the head off and get the cc ratio sorted. My g.box is a T5, don't know what the diff ratio is i'll have to check that out. What ratio do you suggest running?

 

[xctasy]

The one that's in it will be fine at a pinch. I suspect they ran a 2.92:1 diff. If you can find one, your disc brakes fitted onto a drum braked 3.23:1 Diff off a 5-speed manual 3.3 XE or XF should be okay as a swap. One change of the speedo drive. Limited slip 3.23:1's are rare on coil sprung Falcons.

I like 3.45:1 or 3.23:1 gears because, with an over driven fifth, they help launch a car that is no longer a stock Falcon EFI.

A stock 4.1 EFI shunted out 164 hp. Just a set of headers brings it up to 180 hp. A wild cam will push it over 200 hp easily if the injection is calibrated to suit.

Tell 'em you want no software changes on your EEC module and that it may get a tubular header. The camshaft grinder will give you the :nono: talk about big cams and EFI , and then you will end up with the kind of car you'd really like.

 

[Anonymous]

i could not for the life of me find a 3.23:1 coil sprung diff in WA... i rang everywhere and ended up spending the big money and having a brand new one fitted by a diff place, the big pain was that the centre wouldnt swap into the standard casing, a whole new one was needed.... its done now tho, with a big difference in take off!!

-matt-

 

[Anonymous]

I went into the ford wreckers today, went out back they had about 30 or so alloy heads marked as to what model they were off and apparently this is how it goes; On the intake side of the head between 1 and 2 ports there's a casting number C1, C2, E1, E2, C1=carbied leaded head. C2=carbied unleaded. E1=injected leaded.E2=injected unleaded. I checked my car and yep E2. If there's no casting like the spare head i'v got(JO16) its an older XD head. Don't know if you already knew this? I didn't.Apparently the HF numbers mean about JS.

 

[Anonymous]

The wrecker sold me an XE -E2 head , had 2 on the table thought they were both XF, took the least corroded one. Ya recon i should take it back? Didn't look close enough to spot any diffs,(if any?) What do you blokes rekon?

 

[Anonymous]

What size are those bigger XF valves? I had a look a sectioned piece of a log head with the 1.65 inlet valve pushed into the cut groove so I could see how the whole thing worked from the inside. My 250 2V has a 1.65 inlet valve and is very similar if not same where the fuel exits around the valve. Looked to me to be all very cramped and I doupt just adding a bigger valve would do much at all without bowl porting and unshrouding. I cut through the bowls on the log and they look very thin already (around 3mm) I would not like to remove any material from this area.
I was told recently that the Crossflow heads have double retainer valves and valve locks the same as the Aussie Cleveland V8s. In Clevelands they allow the valve to turn around while in position. I quote "The major cause of engine faliure in Clevelands (esp at high rpm) is due to dropping a valve".
"I would" use the earlier alloy head with XF valves (or similar size) providing they were the single lock type retainer and valve. There is a difference in the pedestal material with some Clevelands which are same as Crossflow (steel and alloy?) steel are better.

 

[Anonymous]

Oh I nearly forgot the Aussie Cleveland V8s are two piece valves and can break off at the head where they join. Dont know if the Crossflows are like this also.

 

[xctasy]

On 250 X-flows, the valves are much lighter, and aren't subjected to a lot of lift like many cammed Clevelands can be.

I don't know what material spec is for the XF valves. They run at about 1.8" for the intake, but are a different height to the log headed and 2V ones. Unless you can get the installed height and valve spring unbound at full lift, it'll be a bad item. Can't remember if the collets are single or muti-grove. Multi grove Clevelands butt up against each other, and this allows the valve to rotate, and even out wear and hot spots on the valve seat margin. Good enogh idea, but stocker 302 and 351Cs used to be renown for developing the dreaded rattle and drop when given too much curry because of this. Most replacements are single grove, or the machinist reprofiles the multi-grove collets so they stop the rotator mechanisim turning the valve around. The Cleveland has very heavy valve gear. The valve quality took the heads off. People rev them too much. If you want 7000 rpm, buy a GTHO with its better vlave train!

On the non-cross flow, the 1.75" American valves have a similar length to the Aussie ones. Haven't gotten into the old non-cross-flow, but its got great potential if the intake is a 2V or post 70 US 250 sizes with the bigger 1.75" intake hole.

 

[Anonymous]

hey XECUTE,

i have an XF EFI in which i am building up another engine on the side for. i was wondering if i could ask you a question:

i have the Crow Cam 14776 at the moment but want to take it back to get the 14892 or 14770. when i told them my build up they recommended not to use above their 14771 (as you said they do) for EFI engines as the computer can't handle it. here are the specs i want:

14892/770 Crow Cam & Valve train kit including timing gears
Pacemaker Extractors, 2.5" straight through exhaust
k&n filter
XE EFI (open chamber) head shaved 60 thou, port & polish
XF Valves
aftermarket elec fuel pump
3.45 LSD (already have)
T5 Manual (already have)

would this work with the standard computer or do you think i would need and aftermarket job? would the standar injectors be ok or would they need changing too?

Cheers,

 

[xctasy]

Talk to Fueltronics and get the EEC module changed. Link make a crude but non-descript (no-one will notice the mod) computer which fits in the stock case. My friend Glenn used one in his Turboed Escort with a 3.0 Nissan V6 engine. It doesn't have a lot of great features, but for 700 bucks it beats selling a used cam that you can't run.

Just to recap on the facts. Dick Johnstons 1987 XF SVO had a bog stock EFI 4.1 with just a 280 degree cam and no software mods. It was a manual prototype, which ran the moon shoot 4-spd diff with the local BTR made non-world class T5. Your freer breathing head and exhast system wasn't part of Dickies car that Michael Stahl tested.

With headers and other mods, the 14892 cam will push the engine over the 200 hp mark, no danger.

I don't have an EFI engine, but the information I have is that with a manual gearbox, correct gearing, and no more than 180 hp, you'll be okay. If the amount of hp is more than 180, you'll have issues. Going to a different injector may help. Check this site for injector size. Best, no risk option is to go for the one you have, that 14776. Just a set of headers will raise the stock 122 kw (164 HP) to 140 kw (188 HP) plus as the stock cast header is a poor flowing item. So with a 14776, it may be on the outer limits already.

The injection is timed to pulse at a certain crank angle at the sub 3000 rpm. Past this, bigger cams don't have much of an impact. Low speed drivablity will suffer if the cam timing changes too much. If you have the later unleaded EFI, it has a closed loop set up which looks after the ignition. It could be that this is the best engine to cam. The earlier pre October 1985 version was less amenable to mods.

Use this at your own perril:arrow: 14892
IN.30/70
EX.74/26
280/280
214/214
.510"/.510"
1800/4800
K1402 Designed to give maximum performance and driveability in street modified engines.

Don't use this14770
IN.29/71
EX.78/32
280/290
214/224
.510"/.510"
2000-5000
K14033 Good mid range power and torque for hot street to street/race engines best 3.2 or lower gears.

C'mon, get the 14892 and set asside some sheckles for an updated EFI chip.

 

[alloydave]

Hey Guys, just got my Crow 14892 delivered yesterday and i will chuck it in after bathurst .Ive got the spec sheet that came with it if you want any more specs on the the cam lem me know.

cheers Dave .D