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I planned on re-reading your EDIS install thread, you made it look easy enough for a guy like me to figure it out.
I've got minimal fabrication skills, but I have no doubt that I'll be able to create the motor and transmission mounts necessary to install the powertrain.

It could be just me, but I think the main reasons that people don't like the motorcycle carbs is the perceived complexity..
Multiple carb mounts
"complicated" linkage
Carburator sync
Sizing a set of carburators for IR performance (I don't even know how you rate them for CFM)

personally I worry that one out of 4 carbs may suffer individual issues and leave a single cylinder exposed to unpleasant fuel mixture, how would I ever know until its too late?

So now that we know I have marginal skills and I'm afraid of multiple carbs..
I've been working on projects and amassing equipment.
I've got a grinder/cut off wheel, a 90amp flux MIG, and I'm buying a cheap chinese plasma from the neighbor (Lotos Cut50D), I also have a 20t press that I'm working on building a brake for, and I recently bought a HF 40lb sandblast cabinet and an Eastwood dual voltage powdercoat gun, with an old oven to cook parts.

For the flange there are a couple options, I could build a 1 off (cut/grind/weld/drill/tap/weld) its been done for generations, just pick an induction (carb style) and forge forward.
If I had dimensions for bolts/ports, I know a guy I could tap to crank out a CNC/DXF/DWG file and have one or more plasma or laser cut, maybe sell a couple to generate some project funds.

I've been working on projects and amassing equipment.
I've got a grinder/cut off wheel, a 90amp flux MIG, and I'm buying a cheap chinese plasma from the neighbor (Lotos Cut50D), I also have a 20t press that I'm working on building a brake for, and I recently bought a HF 40lb sandblast cabinet and an Eastwood dual voltage powdercoat gun, with an old oven to cook parts.

I'm pretty good at measuring for precision and knowing when to apply it and when it doesn't matter.
For my skidsteer engine swap I needed a bellhousing plate
Case 1830 Motor swap -- FordSix Forum
I made it out of 1/4" steel, the bellhousing and starter bolts lined up perfectly, the flywheel and starter snout holes are 'good enough'

I'll be reading as many motorcycle carb intake threads as I can find, like this.. (carb and IR EFI)
HOW TO FIT A ZETEC - Part 1 - Fuel System -- TurboSport.co.uk

I've wanted to try making my own intake since I helped get the parts together for clintonvillian to build his 300 MPFI manny
Started on headers and efi intake today! -- FordSix Forum
The intake, header, and throttle body flanges were cut here at work out of 3/8" steel, but we can't cut aluminum (yet) but there is a laser shop here in town that can.

I'd like to try making one out of round stock and another out of formed steel, utilizing a wooden buck and hammering the metal over it.
Since I don't have a permanent car to put it in, I have a couple other for fitting it into. I have a '65 Mustang shell (very rusty, but the engine bay is good)

Any mounts I make for the engine *should* work for a Mustang. I've been meaning to make this car mobile on its own power, but I always thought I'd use the spare 200/C4 that I have sitting on my shop floor out of a '67 Mustang, but since this will eventually be a dedicated project/fun car, I may as well, it isn't doing anything else. And in regards to performance it should be very close to a Falcon, especially since its gutted.

As I was getting ready to finish this post, I realized that the blue Mustang 2 parked in Dad's trees had a running 2.3l, that carb should be a decent starting point for a 2.0L... I may have to go swipe that car.. If it does still run, I could even possibly install the 2.3L then change it out for the zetec.


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I am pretty sure one of those places I linked to has plates for the Zetec to facilitate mounting longitudinally - maybe or maybe not worth ordering, but maybe something worth looking at for inspiration. ;)

I think the non-turbo Limas were only rated at 80 or 90hp, probably way too low to properly run a Zetec. I guess it would at least be mobile, though! :)

This thread is really inspirational (aspirational?) for me. I am knee-deep in house updates right now, but I think there's a light at the end of the tunnel. If I'm not totally broke when it's done I think I'm going to pick up a decent/cheap welder and start practicing. The electrical work isn't all that daunting, but actually getting an engine & transmission installed is a major obstacle for me. I have zero fabrication experience - historically I just hand a cardboard model (and some dough) to someone who sorts out the details. ;)

For my project, the transmission is a major hangup. Bubba (in a random thread) turned me onto a controller that can run a 4R/5R55 transmission so I can stick with an autobox and not hack up the floor. Buuut a manual would be a lot more fun. A 6-speed from a Miata, for example. But then I'm figuring out a clutch and shifter linkage. Nothing is easy. ;)


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This may make you feel better about a cheap welder, I bought my Harbor Freight 90amp flux core welder when it was on sale for $82 just over a year ago.
I designed and built custom 144/170/200/250 motor mounts to allow easier installation of 250 motors.
Small Six Motor Mount Dimensions -- FordSix Forum
You can see welds I did with them, and what the magic use of a grinder can make it look like when done.
Starting point


ground flat

And painted

I'm not really stuck on the transmission issue as much, I'm being cheap and I *will* play with the ones I have, and if I ever get to a point that what I haven isn't good enough, I'll start shopping. I have looked at aftermarket transmission controllers for my '75 F250 CrewCab 4x4, I'd like to put in an E4OD behind a carbed motor. Bauman makes one... (but I don't *need* one yet)

I've been house project swamped before, I've been yard project swamped before, I've had periods when it was just too cold outside to even think about working on things.
This spring I pulled up the carpet in the basement and laid down laminate (below grade, had to be laminate, engineered, or tile) way back in 2006 I replaced 1100sqft of carpet with 3/4" x 3.5"wide solid maple, and built a staircase with banister, I've replaced every faucet, sink, and toilet in my house at least once in the 11 years we've been there, painted a couple rooms a few times, every room at least once.

Plus I still have my ongoing projects ('63.5 Falcon Convert, '71 Airstream remodel -- flooring will be here Monday 5/9, '75 F250 crew cab 4x4) None of it NEEDS to get done, and there are times when I just need a break from one project so I change gears.

Two nights ago, I built a 14ft x 36" deep above ground pool in the back yard.

Back on the Zetec front... today I spent a few minutes looking up custom tuners for Honda CB1100's to be used with stock equipment.
I found this one on eBay
2013 Honda CB1100 - Dynatek - DFE-16-040 - Fusion EFI Fuel & Ignition Controller -- eBay $319.90 (the ad lies)
I looked up their webpage
Dynatek Fusion EFI -- dynaonline.com
It had a lot of features, so I called them..
Dynatek Contact Us
I told them what I wanted to do and asked if their product could help me get a throttle body setup designed for a 1.1L motor working on a 2.0L motor, I got transferred to an actual engineer.
He said that their product is designed to piggy back into the stock Honda wiring harness and requires the stock ECM. (I figured as much)
He didn't know if the system could be modified enough to get the injectors to spray enough fuel for a motor twice the size as it was originally designed for.
He said I will have problems getting an initial fuel map that works, they don't have one.
And here is where the eBay ad lies..

The tuner designed for anything with more than 2 cyclinders WILL NOT control ignition

Some quick ebay searching and i couldn't find a Honda ECM listed anywhere, I found only 1 wiring harness ($150) I don't know if I can assume that wiring harness included the ECM or not, I found some other Honda ECMs for different years/sizes they were roughly $100. So figure about $300 to get all the stock Honda wiring harness/ecm/throttle bodies, and then another $320 for the programmer, and I'd still need to make/buy a manifold (I said I could make one for $60) I would be looking at about $680 with this option and I still need to figure out ignition (megajolt $150) and how to make enough fuel pressure, I did see some Honda in-tank pumps for under $40.

The Burton carb starter kit is still about $500 (manifold/carbs) and I'd need megajolt $150
Basically I'm using that as my baseline, any solution that costs more than $650 will be given the stink eye.


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That does make me feel better about a cheap welder! Maybe I'll pick one up and just get to practicing if nothing else. :)

Based on my looking, the Burton & Megajolt is the baseline, but a $350 MicroSquirt from DIYAUTOTUNE and a Megajolt setup isn't far off - maybe $50 all said and done. Speaking of, Microsquirt will control an E4OD. :)


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Sidebar from Zetec chatter...somewhere, I don't remember where, I did a writeup on the el'cheap-o HF 90Amp MIG. I thought it was here in the Eye Candy section, but be danged if I can find it.
It isn't a perfect machine, but it has its uses.

After I bought my HF 90amp, the first thing I did was take out the stock .030 HF wire and I bought a set of gun tips for .035 wire, then I went to Home Depot and bought a spool of their .035 flux core wire.
And then I grabbed a bunch of scrap steel from the drop bins at work and started figuring out what I don't know.
And while I didn't know much.. practice helps.

My first weld with the HF wire, I should have beveled the mating edges.
Tons of splatter BB's

I ground it down and off.

And I tried some 1/4" at 90°

To me, the Heat Affected Zone (HAZ) seems sufficient for at least 1/4"

My skills in tight corners and ill fitting pieces of metal need work.

Eventually I started figuring things out, more 1/4", this time with a bevel

Tack welds looked good.

So I finished welding it up in a solid bead, not a straight bead..

Looks good on the bottom side to me.

Recently I replaced the leaf springs on my '75 F250, I needed a new set of rear leaves. None of my jackstands were remotely close to being able to hold the frame up while I worked on the suspension. So I made this.

I'm still working on the tight spaces welding technique, but the easy outside ones are (IMHO) looking pretty good.

I'm still not the best welder in the world, but practice has certainly helped.

There are still splatter BB's, but they are fewer. My coworkers recommended that I start using a welding spray that is designed to reduce the BBs from sticking.
There are a few upgrades to the HF90amp that are supposed make them better, from what I've read, doing them to a cheap welder makes it perform like less of a cheap welder, but the consensus is that if you are willing to spend $100 on the welder and another 30-60 upgrading it, you should just spend the additional amount at the beginning to get a little nicer welder. I got mine cheap enough and I'm out of warranty now, so I'll start looking into those upgrades (DC rectifier, better power source for the spool feed motor -- it does fluctuate with usage, capacitors to smooth out any voltage spikes.

Someday I'll buy a gas shielded MIG, but until then, this one does everything I need. I just have to deal with the extra clean up steps.


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Can you add a gas bottle to the HF setup? That's what I did to my cheap buzz box and it made a world of difference. Also, after the addition of gas, I bought a roll of wire at HF and had problems with it. Switched to a roll of H*me Dep*t stuff and the problems went away. Don't know if it's a reoccurring issue or just a bad batch.


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the 90amp is flux core only, the 170amp has the option to run as flux or gas shielded, and for somebody who wants the options it can be purchased for about 2x the price of the 90amp, and is probably worth it (I have never used one).
From what I have read, the HF flux wire is garbage and should be avoided, in my use, it splattered a lot and wasn't as consistent when welding with it, I still have 3/4 of the original roll at home "for emergencies only" in case I forget to buy the better stuff. The Home Depot wire is the same price as the Harbor Freight stuff and the Home Depot has better reputation.


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This thread, had me out looking around the internet for bellhousing patterns
200-250 motor mount locations -- FordSix Forum
And during my random google searching, I stumbled upon this..
Ford Transmission Bellhousing Info -- MercuryCapri.com
The original site is now defunct and the only place that information exists is on the wayback machine, so I've copied it here.
I claim no ownership to his information and if the owner ever sees this, I'd appreciate any updated information.
Ford Transmission Bellhousing Info

Ever wanted to know which engines shared bellhousing patterns? Want to swap in a new motor and are wondering if it will bolt to your existing transmission? Now you'll know! To the best of my knowledge, this list should be correct, however there may be some errors. These is no substitute for your own research!

Example Measurements

I am now on a great crusade! I am trying to compile a a list of all the Ford engines and their bellhousing patterns. I am looking for pictures of the back of all the engines listed below as well as some measurements! If you have one of these engines and it's just laying around your garage, please take a picture and please do some quick and easy measurements.

You can click on the example on the left for an example. You don't have to do the picture like this. The picture by itself and then writing the measurements in an email would be great! Once I have a few pictures together and more measurement info I will post a seperate page with the pictures and measurements. I hope to get pictures of all the patterns and measurements.

Once this gets going, I will also start working on transmission measurements.

If you have any other additions or information, please email me!

Also note that even though you'll be able to bolt the engine to the transmission of you choice, you'll still have to figure out the flywheel/flexplate/starter/input shaft/torque converter pattern/etc. issues.
  1. 221 V8, 260 V8, 5 bolt 289 V8
  2. 3.8 RWD/4.2 V6, 255 V8, 6 bolt 289 V8, 302 V8, 351W V8, 351C V8, 240 I6, 300 I6
  3. 351M V8, 400 V8, 429 V8, 460 V8
  4. 2.3 FWD I4, 2.5 FWD I4, 3.0 Vulcan V6 FWD/RWD, 3.0/3.2 SHO V6, 3.8 FWD V6
  5. FE Series - 352 V8, 360 V8, 390 V8, 391FT V8, 410 Merc V8, 427 V8, 428 V8
  6. 1.6 I4, 1.8 I4, 1.9 I4 (Escort, Tracer, OzCapri, Miata)
  7. 2.6 V6, 2.8 V6, 4.0 V6
  8. 2.0 Pinto I4, 2.0 Zetec I4, 2.3 Capri II
  9. 2.3 RWD I4
  10. 4.6 SOHC V8 RWD, 4.6 DOHC V8 RWD, 5.4 SOHC V8, 5.4 DOHC V8, 6.8 SOHC V10
  11. 2.5 Duratech V6, 3.0 Duratech V6, 3.4 SHO V8, 4.6 DOHC V8 FWD
There are some notible exceptions and other interesting notes.

The 400 V8 was also available in a rare casting in 1973. In some full-size Ford, Mercury & Lincoln products the 400 was cast with the small block bellhousing pattern like the 302. It was mated to a an FMX transmission. These blocks are fairly rare, but it would make it easier to swap into various Capris.

A lot of people assume the 2.0 and 2.3 I4s share bellhousing patterns, and in some cases they do and in other cases they don't. In most cases 4 out of the 6 bolts between the engine and the bellhousing are the same for a 2.0L and a 2.3L, but the top two are different. On the 2.3 they are about an inch higher up on the block. The other possible difference would be the dowel pins on the bottom two bolts being slightly larger in diameter for the 2.3. The one exception is the 76 and 77 Capri. The 2.3 bellhousing in these cars are identical to the 2.0 bellhousings found in previous Capris and Pintos.

If you are planning to swap a 2.0 Zetec into a Capri and want an automatic C4, you can use a bellhousing from 2.0 Pintos and Capris before 1975. You may be able to use a 4 speed bellhousing to adapt a T5 to the engine as well. Remember however, you will have to find the proper flywheel. A 2.3 flywheel/flexplate will work work with the 2.0 Zetec.

3.0 Vulcan V6s were the same in front wheel drive and rear wheel drive applications.

The 3.0 Duratech FWD(Taurus, Sable, Escape) and RWD(Lincoln LS V6) are the same bellhousing pattern.

The Mod motors share bellhousings, but the flexplates/flywheels are different. Cast cranks got 6 bolt flexplates/flywheels while forged cranks got 8 bolt versions. The SHO V8 shares the same crank bolt pattern as the forged cranks in these motors.

The Mod motor bellhousing pattern is fairly close to the small block Ford bellhousing pattern. Early 4.6 blocks in 91 and some 92 models were exactly the same as the 5.0/SBF bellhousing pattern.

The 2.0 Zetec motor DOES NOT match the 2.5/3.0 Duratech & 3.4 SHO V8. The 3.4 SHO V8 and the Duratech V6s are a match.

People have said that the Duratech bellhousings changed in 1999 making them incompatible with earlier engines of the same type. From what I've researching, there was a change to accomodate the MTX75 manual transmission. However, I am not sure what that change was. The SHO V8 '99 block matches the 3.0 V6 Duratech V6 block bellhousing pattern, and all the SHO V8 blocks are the same. Not sure what to think of this. There are a few EXTRA holes in the 3.0 Duratech V6 bellhousing pattern, all the other bolt holes are a match. Perhaps these extra holes are the difference?

The earliest two castings for the 4.6L Mod blocks, used prior to late 11/1/91 in Lincolns and 2-18-92 in full size Fords, share the 302/351 small block bolt pattern exactly. The casting numbers that fall under this category are F1AE and F2VE. The change in bellhousing pattern coincided with the changeover from the AOD transmission to the AOD-E, which resulted in relocating two bolt locations, going to larger, hollow dowels, and changing to a three bolt starter. All subsequent Romeo mod blocks beginning with the F3VE use the AOD-E pattern, and all Windsor mod motors use it.* Thanks to Chuck Sanders for this info!

I originally found that link from this forum thread.
Zetec Bolt on 5 Speed? -- LocostUSA.com Forum (this thread is a rabbit hole that I definitely need more time for)
Which also lead me to this...
Tuning the Zetec - Page 1
Specifically this sub section.
ZVH Turbo conversion":10kdq6oe said:
There's a popular engine conversion available in the UK, called the Zee-VH. This involves combining the Ford Zetec engine block and crankshaft, and the Ford CVH cylinder head and water pump. Sounds strange? Well, its popular amongst the Ford Escort and Fiesta Turbo owners. It allows them to build a higher capacity engine than the original CVH engine (1600 cc) and it also allows them to retain the original manifolds and Turbo system. Figures of up to 270 BHP have been quoted with this straight forward modification. Jim Hearne is currently producing some information on the Zee-VH and rather than re-invent the wheel, follow this link to Jim's site for all the technical details Zee-VH information page.

Another engine conversion that follows the Turbo route, is of course the Zetec Turbo, where the 16V head is retained. Sunny Khalsa's Zetec Turbo powered Mk3 Fiesta recorded 178MPH at Bruntingthorpe in September 2003, and he was planning to break the 180MPH barrier for a front wheel drive car in 2004.
Clearly, more reading is required.


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thesameguy":3owixatf said:
I think early Pinto bellhousing + T5 is the cheapneasy

There were two four speeds used back then. Letter code RAD and the German four speed. The RAD is the Borg Warner SR4 and was the predecessor to the T5, and the German trans eventually became the Type 9 as used in Euro Sierras and US Merkurs. I've owned both, but I don't know if the bellhousings are the same between the two.


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as i said before, I am basically i4 illiterate, I never had much reason to know about them.
Sitting at Dad's house is a Ford Ranger with a 2.3L/5 speed and out back in the trees an Aerostar with a 2.3L/5speed (2wd). He offered both, plus he said he had another 5 speed for a 2wd ranger 'tucked away' somewhere. And I am certain that there is a 4 speed for a 2.0L there also.

I am starting to wonder now, with all the EFI 2.3's he has sitting around, how hard would it be to cobble the 2.3L components onto the Zetec?

Refering back to the MGB build,
Zetec Powered MGB Build Thread -- Page 13
4. You need to add at least one more mounting hole to the bell, preferably two. There are two ways to do this. You can either drill the block to match the top holes in the bell, or you can weld a little additional material to the bell to pick up the Zetec holes. The Zetec pattern is already in the block plate for some reason so you have a template to guide you. We chose to weld because the top two holes would have come very close to the back two head studs. I would rather leave the material there and not risk drilling into the stud.
I think I am going to look into getting my block drilled so I can swap transmissions easier. If I thought I might only use one transmission, then welding the ears on would be a one and done deal, but if I want to play around with an automatic and then a couple of manual transmissions and I don't know if they have removable bellhousings or not; then having the top 2 holes will make this easier.

In addition to the OMC/SBC adapter that was posted earlier.
There is also this which is designed for the 2.3L to use SBF bellhousing transmissions, but those top bellhousing bolt holes look like they just might work for the top 2 of the zetec...
2.3 Liter Ford Bellhousing Adapter Plate


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I think Lima 2.3 EFI is a sticky wicket. I think all Limas used EEC-IV, which is reasonably adaptable so on the fuel side, you'd be okay. I think the issue would be ignition. The Zetec does not have a distributor, and that *might* make EEC-IV angry... possible you could program it out and use Megajolt. Hell, it's possible it might not even care so long as you get it a tach signal. I suspect someplace like Moates would be a place to seek information on what you can do with EEC-IV. I'm sure there are PLENTY of resources for EEC-IV info - Moates just comes to mind. Otherwise, getting EEC-IV to do the fuel is not going to be an issue.

*But* - I don't think you're saving *real* money here. Whether it's carbs & Megajolt or MS2 or EEC-IV tuning I still think you're talking abour $700 or $800 to get a good result. I just don't see things getting much cheaper than that, and I say that because the Zetec was my go-to swap for the Falcon until I realized the Duratec is the same price or cheaper and a newer/better/lighter motor and I got a Duratec! :) TBH, if you've got a bunch of Limas hanging around, why not Lima+turbo+EECI-IV+T5 and sell the Zetec cash? The Zetec is better in the <200hp range, but a Lima turbo will reward its extra 100lbs with an extra 100hp, so it's a net win. ;)


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It just occurred to me that late fox body Mustangs were distributorless, so you could use one of those ECMs or ROMs to run that Zetec. Derp!


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I thought that the Distributor Less 2.3's still used a stub to drive the oil pump and provide a tach signal?

This is the motor in the 2wd ranger at Dads.
I'd have to double check, but I think is is one of those weird ones with 8 spark plugs for 4 cylinders.


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CoupeBoy":3i4dz1gd said:
those top bellhousing bolt holes look like they just might work for the top 2 of the zetec...

Yep, that adapter has both patterns. Some of the Limas had both sets of upper holes, so extra support. But the upper two would match the Lima bell and the lower the Zetec pattern.

CoupeBoy":3i4dz1gd said:
I thought that the Distributor Less 2.3's still used a stub to drive the oil pump and provide a tach signal?

They used a stub shaft to drive the oil pump only. They weren't EDIS, but DIS, which used a waste spark setup and batch fired injectors, thus no need for a cam sensor. They picked up a tach signal off the balancer.

It would be easy to Megasquirt one.

I'm not sure if the Lima ever went sequential injection.


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I don't know, but I would have to believe at least the '98-01 LL25 motors were sequential. Even the crappy HSC motor got sequential injection in the early '90s, I don't see how the Lima could have gotten into OBDII years without it. But, I don't think the injection scheme would be a hangup - surely you can run the Zetec batch-fired, that's what Megasquirt would do anyway. :)

I'm sure the Zetec has a VR sensor that EEC-IV might not like, but it's not that difficult to generate a old-school tach signal - *worst* case one of the install kits for a diesel tachometer would have the pieces you'd need to stick on the crank pulley or flywheel to get a signal EEC-IV can work with. With that tach signal, EEC-IV can do batch-fired injectors and work a DIS coil pack for ignition. Use TunerPro or Tweecer etc. to tune it.

An EEC-IV-powered, batch-fired, DIS Zetec would be a fun mix of old Ford parts, and while you probably wouldn't be eeking *all* the performance out of that motor, it'd probably be fine. FWIW, XR4Tis have *the* EEC-IV harness you want as it's easily removable and totally discrete. Of course, if you'd got Rangers kicking around, that's free. A 2.3/2.5l Ranger is probably close enough to a 2.0l Zetec in performance it would start right up.


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thesameguy":1idhv2yw said:
An EEC-IV-powered, batch-fired, DIS Zetec would be a fun mix of old Ford parts

Just peeked at the PCM schematic for a '95 Contour. Two wire VR sensors for both cam and crank, 60 pin PCM connector, old school dlc connector. OBDI...

Now you got me thinking how well one of these would run in a baby Bronco...


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I loved reading the B2 2.3l thread. I saw that you are planning on supplanting it with a "v" motor.

I'd read it either way. But it would be fun to see the 2.3 get another chance to redeem itself.


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It needs more power, Scotty. I may end up with another small main block with a 2.5 Ranger crank. I really do like the Limas. Tough little engines...


Famous Member
IMHO, the only way the Lima is any good is with a turbo. They don't flow or rev, and even with 2.5l they can't get out of their own way. But they are tough and do well with forced induction. Given how many places Ford stuck the turbo'd Lima there is plenty to draw from and it's easy to do. I've ridden shotgun in a TurboRanger around Thunderhill and it was good fun.

The Zetec would probably need short gears to do anything useful in a B2, but the Zetec Escapes were okay so it's doable - heck, the B2 may even be lighter than an Escape. But, you know, the Duratec is available in 2.3 and 2.5l displacements and makes excellent power naturally aspirated. If a Zetec fell into your lap there's no real reason not to use it, but Duratecs in 2.0, 2.3 and 2.5l are easy to find cheap these days. If you're going to buy something, I can't imagine choosing a Zetec over a Duratec. A 2.5l 170hp/tq B2 would be exciting. A 2.5l Lima is only 120hp/150tq. Quite a bit less.

(Also, I did confirm even the last 2001 2.5l Limas were batch fired. Crazy!)