Zetec

MechRick

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thesameguy":1ua7sawq said:
They don't flow or rev, and even with 2.5l they can't get out of their own way

If you had seat time in my Mustang before the turbo went on, it just might have changed your mind. The head had big valves and porting, the pistons had massive dishes, the compression ratio was 7.4:1, but it ran very well for a four. I can't help but wonder how that engine would have ran with compression...

thesameguy":1ua7sawq said:
IMHO, the only way the Lima is any good is with a turbo

It's a much cheaper way to go, but I don't want the added expense of premium fuel.

thesameguy":1ua7sawq said:
The Zetec would probably need short gears to do anything useful in a B2

It's up 40 HP on a stock 2.3 Lima, but the Lima is making the same torque at 2000 that the Zetec makes at 4000 rpm.

thesameguy":1ua7sawq said:
I can't imagine choosing a Zetec over a Duratec

It's the bellhousing change with the Duratecs that is frustrating, but yes, the 2.5 Duratec is a powerhouse...
 

thesameguy

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I have been in a couple semi-built NA 2.3s - Esslinger stuff, etc. - and they just don't impress. I don't think you can really crest 140 or 150hp on pump gas in those motors unless you get into seriously expensive stuff like aluminum heads, etc. They simply can't rev (because they can't breathe) to make real power. For the money something like that would take I just don't think it'd be worth it. Those 150hp builds entail new bottom ends and headwork, an easy $1000 or $1500 in parts. That seems like crazy money to spend on what a junkyard Zetec will do that with a pair of cams! OTOH, Entry level on a 2.3 turbo is 150hp (10psi) and you have a lot of headroom - my XR4Ti is in the 250hp range and reasonably quick. A stock turbo Lima with it's 8:1 CR and, say 8-10psi *with an intercooler* should be fine on regular unleaded. Might need some adjustments to ignition timing, but it shouldn't be an issue. An '80s or '90s Saab LPT (2.0l or 2.3l, 16v, 9:1, 8psi, intercooled) runs great on regular. With the lower static CR the Lima does not need premium for base boost. The only reason it was specified on the automatic XR4Ti is because Ford was to cheap/lazy to intercool it. :thumbdown:

Also, bear in mind that while the Zetec might not have quite the low-rpm torque the Lima has, it isn't far off - this is a Zetec with an exhaust:



It's only off about 15 lb ft at lower revs. It might peak much higher than the Lima, but it's like single-digits off during most of that intermediate time. That's a pretty good trade for a significant bump in power, much wider powerband and a substantial weight savings. Probably gets better gas mileage, too. ;)

The Duratec bellhousing change *is* rough, but there are two manuals that will bolt right up - Mazda M5OD-R1, Aisin AZ6 - and there are several sources for T5 or T9 bellhousing adapters. The T5 has the obvious fitment advantages, but it seems like a total pull out of 2001+ Ranger (engine & trans) makes it easy... well, as easy as putting things where they don't belong ever is. Considering what you win over a Lima - +50% hp and -200lbs - it seems very worthwhile.

(FWIW, I am not down on the Lima - this is just random musings. I'm still rockin' one in my XR4Ti, everything from Esslinger cams & valves to a 3" exhaust and a mountain of parts in the middle. But, if I had a blank slate and was considering what to do, I'm not sure I'd ever consider a Lima. Especially these days - finding good heads is near impossible!)
 

CoupeBoy

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Over the weekend, I went to a swap meet and found a guy selling (2) T5 "parts" transmissions. He bought them this way, he sold them to me this way, he knows nothing about them.
The price was right, $25 and that included a SBF bellhousing with throwout bearing.

I'll shelf them for now while I read more about rebuilding them, the one looks complete but is missing its ID tag, the other has an ID tag, but it is known to be missing parts, starting with the input shaft and there is a peice of metal black taped to the input shaft bearing retainer.

If nothing else, I will at least have transmissions for mock up purposes or parts, which I've needed for quite a while.


I really do need to start working on a better storage plan for all the motors and transmissions that I've been accumulating.

I'm into this for less than what it costs to fill my truck fuel tank every week... so yes, basically the zetec did fall in my lap and so did the T5's
I was reading a thread in the small six forum and I'm thinking about building an Arduino/Speeduino for controlling ignition and/or fuel injection.
My 200 EFI Turbo build ('65 Econoline) -- FordSix Forum
From the links he provided, I should be able to *build* the controller for about $160 (obviously.... more reading is required)


While at the carshow/swapmeet I saw this, the window says
1927 Ford Model T


powered by a small i4 of some sort

Looks like it would be fun.
There was a rope and no owner, otherwise I'd have gotten better pictures and more information.

On my drive in this morning, I had a thought..
What about a belt driven distributor?

A few minutes on google, I can find some for V8's, my guess is to reduce ignition scatter on SBC V8 motors.
Jesel -- THE ORIGINAL BELT DRIVE SYSTEM


Regarding HP and motor building swapping.
If I wanted cheap easy power, I'd go straight for a 5.0 and build toward 400hp.
My current '68 Mustang is a C-code 289, originally 195hp 2bbl, it has been upgraded with Edelbrock cam/lifters/intake/carb but to even imagine that it puts out more than 230hp now.
It runs just fine, ample oompf for daily driving, keeps my wife happy.
I've got more v8's, I've got a ton of small and big sixes, I don't need another project, but its too much fun to quit.

And there must be some famous quote about an idle mind being a terrible thing to waste.
 

CoupeBoy

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I wish this guy had posted more information about the mods he made to the distributor.
Edit: page 4, has a lot more information on his conversion.
Suzuki G10 3 cylinder project. -- Miata.net Forum Page 3
fujioko":2gm300u9 said:
My original clever plan for lubrication has also been scrubbed. I ended up boring out the distributor to add a sealed ball bearing assembly on the pulley side.



another thing to consider is a direct mount distributor.
A while back, I had a Ford 2n tractor, 4 cyl flathead. The distributor plugged directly into the front of the motor with an offset key so it could not be set in backward.
Distributor Front Mount For Ford Tractor 2N 8N 9N /9N12100 -- Amazon.com
 

thesameguy

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That rod is awesome - am I reading the sign correctly? $2300? Or is he saying it's 2300-powered? Definitely looks like a Lima under the hood!

I like the idea of Arduino or Pi-powered fuel injection, but I have some concerns about running general-purpose electronics for mission-critical stuff. It's probably unnecessary, legacy concerns - but it still puts me on edge. ;) There are some really cool shields for Arduino - doing it that way should be pretty cheap, but require a lot of elbow grease. I am good with computers, but that's way above my pay (and risk) grade. :)

A cam-driven distributor is a nice thing, but I'm not sure how retrofit-able something like that would be. You'd have to modify the head in a pretty particular way... and then you end up with a one-off head which would be a problem should it warp or whatever. I tend to lean away from things that couldn't be fixed in BFE, NE in a pinch so stuff like that scares me. I think a belt-driven distributor would be cool in a ratrod - visually - but it sure seems like all the time & effort spent making brackets, drives, and just-so pulleys would eclipse a lot of other solutions. Everything for EEC-IV from a Lima can't be more than $100 at a junkyard (ECM, harness, VAM, IAC, coil) and then you need some sort of programmer to tune it which is probably $100-$400 depending on what you do. That's five bills to a running car. I'd eat ramen for a month or two before working much harder over $500. :D Guess now you know my pain tolerances and risk aversion. ;)
 

CoupeBoy

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The "2300" is in the "Engine" portion of the window sheet, so I'm guessing 2.3L i4.

No cam driven distributor, that would be a nightmare.
I dropped off a flywheel for (4) simple bolt holes to be drilled and tapped 3.5 weeks ago and it is still out. While I trust in their work, I don't like being dependent on outside work.
The belt driven one seems like an interesting fix, a couple cogged pulleys and a short belt, make a couple minor modifications to a 4cyl distributor.
Brackets are the least of my concern, I know you have your own phobias :rolflmao:

Dad offered me the Aerostar minivan with 2.3L/5speed (rare manual option) it would be EFI, so it would be up to me to strip it down and take it out, easiest way to get everything and/or mess things up. Not certain of the year.

My next couple weeks are going to be focusing on the next stages of the strip and remodel on my Airstream.
For now it isn't a full remodel, interior paint, rebuild the loo, and new flooring.
Then we will use it as we figure out what else we need.

Some of the last interior pieces coming out of the trailer yesterday.

Interior from the bathroom looking forward

From the front looking at the Driver Side (also called the street side on the airstream forums)
This is after the third scrubbing of the street side wall.

The curb side needs a lot of attention once I get the plumbing and wiring organized a bit.
Next steps are to finish tearing out the bathroom and then we will paint the interior walls with Zinnszer Bondz (r) primer on the walls, Krylon Fusion (r) on the endcaps, then paint it a color we like.
The flooring was supposed to be in today, but they said 'tomorrow'.

If I had a 100x100 shop building, I'd still need more space..
 

chad

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Hey! what's MY motor doin in the back'a your truck!?
That red lill car is what I drive (granted 2 yrs older & a silver wagon…

Have fun, there's been at least 1 important TSB (fuel sys) so you may want to check if it's been done on this 1.
 

chad

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when ur done it'll be able to pull that Airstream!
 

bubba22349

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Can't tell for certain in the picture but it looks like a VW distributor 02 that might be a good one to try. Good luck :nod:
 

chad

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Yeah! That's 1a the longest Airstreams this Right Coaster's ever seen.
Been watchin yer crew cab build (as I may have said on that thread) "My fav p/u (any truck & most cars) model '73/9!"

This aint an orphan or a six but neat thread…
I clicked on yer UK link & read a lill (not all). Those guys must not know bout the Sun(tour) dizzy machine we use to re-curve?

Can U explain Y folks like the Duratec better than our motor? (I got the choice 2 go w/the lima between the 2 esp if U can find the oval port head).

Tanks (w/o guns) bro!
 

thesameguy

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The Duratec is newer, lighter, stronger, makes more power, and because it was widely used across Ford and Mazda has a lot of tuning options.

The Zetec was a great evolution of the CVH/SPI engine family and very limited in capacity and output options. 2.0l is the biggest it can be, and that's 130hp stock.

The Duratec was a clean-sheet design, capable of up to 2.5l of displacement, built to be boosted, and power a wide range of vehicles. It is better in literally every way.
 
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