Ford 250 I6 question(s)

T

Texas46Ford

New member
First, excuse my ignorance, I am unfamiliar with this engine; I bought a rust and dent free 68 F100 lwb for $31 and this was in it. The sticker on the V/C states that it's a 78 250. What would it have come in? Is it a desireable engine to build? If so, what V8 heads can I cut up to fit this, if any ( I like the idea of crossflow and can't justify the $ for the aluminum head listed elsewhere in these forums)? My very limited research shows it bolts to a small block V8 tranny so no problems there, but what works for power and/or economy on these? I see very little mention of them anywhere. I am a very capable mechanic and metal fabricator, so no problems creating parts and I welcome the challenges of creating something "different". Thanks for any help and feel free to suggest ideas I might have missed (for this engine)
 
Swap Job , first 250's didnt come out till 69 , and then never in a truck , other than that if its a good job there a great , simple engine , any pics of the engine compartment ?
 
Thank you. I will keep this engine since it's a decent one. No pics yet, I'll get some when I can. The vin calls for an FE.

The engine is well mounted, but not wired or plumbed to the truck. I hooked up the starter and ran compression; all six were within 3 to 7 pounds of 150 so it seems like a good place to start. I'll rebuild later if it needs more after improving the rest of the engine.

I am not happy with the integrated intake as it is very limiting. As I understand things, the biggest limitations on these engines mostly come from restrictive heads and while there are aftermarket heads for the little sixes I can't justify the cost for something I might be able to make myself. I have read where some people have cut and welded Cleveland heads to make crossflow heads for the 300 sixes. I will be building my own pans, covers and manifolds as it is.

Forced induction is a future possibility. Since this truck is a testbed for me, not a daily driver, I want to stretch a bit beyond the normal rebuild just to see what can be accomplished with what I have or can get reasonably. Throwing money at a build only means you have money to spare; without knowedge and a willingness to try different things, there is no advancement. I don't have all the answers, teach and I shall learn.
 
Hmm, interesting. If you can fab the heads, the 2.3 HSC was derived from the 200/250 engine. I'd imagine that the bore spacing and bolt pattern is identical, along with valve geometry. The bore certainly is identical, the HSC uses the same pistons as the 200/250. It's not a crossflow design, but it has a very much improved combustion chamber, intake design, and ports.

Might look into that, they came on many Ford Tempos/Merc Topazes in the 80's so should be plentiful and cheap.
 
Thank you. HSC? Are these aluminum heads or iron? I have a gas fired forge with a thermostatic control large enough to handle the job for iron heads, but aluminum would be preferable. This would be a very inexpensive head in a salvage yard, those cars are plentiful there. Definately worth further research on my part. Thanks again and keep the ideas coming.
 
Yes, they are aluminum. So far, everything looks good about this idea; the intakes appear to be aluminum so they can donate their mounting flanges as well. This is getting very interesting. Everything is frozen around here, but it should be around 50 next week so I'll pick one up and the head gasket to start measuring things. Since the bore is the same, how close would the pistons be and would they provide any benefits? Should I try matching the 2.3 cam profile or use somehing more aggressive? Thanks again.
 
I would definitely go more aggressive. The stock cam was very mild, no reason to strangle the engine especially if you are doing all this work. The pistons are a direct swap for 250 pieces and have the benefit of higher compression, no dish. Might be a good idea to look at the deck, 250s are pretty notorious for setting the pistons .125" or so down in the hole. There's a lot of quench left on the table that the HSC cylinders need for optimal performance.
 
Maybe I should cut the scrap cylinder to expose the valves and bolt it on to see how they interact with the piston, take some baseline measurements so I can build it as tight as I can? Maybe figure in a new cam profile and rocker ratios? You evidently have a good deal of experience with both these engines. Keep the ideas coming and we'll see what we can do on a reasonable budget. I am kicking around a few fuel injection ideas, too, but that can wait.
 
Please, PLEASE take pictures and post them here as this project continues.
8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Joe
 
I will post some baseline pics as soon as possible, but please be patient; I'm also building my daughter a one-off extended cab 62 C***y 4x4 (her choice, not mine) and she won't let me forget that she comes first. As I make progress with the Ford project, or find something that doesn't work, I will post it. Thanks for the interest and inspiration; they make it easier to stay on task. BTW, I just acquired a 91 AOD (non-electronic) from a 5.8 in a police car so out comes the C4. Keep the ideas coming.
 
update: We took a 250 head gasket and a 2.3 hsc head gasket, overlaid them and they matched up. Cylinder spacing, head bolt placement, even most of the water and oil passages lined up, so I guess the next step is to get the heads and get started. Late model 2.3 hsc efi intake manifolds with a 4.6 V8 throttle body & TPS, 5.8 injectors, the timing cover and balancer from the 2.3 will supply the crank position sensor, heads have knock sensor and I'll work on the rest as we go. Any suggestions?
 
Another option you have is to adapt the 250 engine block to accept the Aussie Crossflow alloy head. If you look at the crossflow head, you will see that it resembles a Cleveland head in design; in fact, the rocker arms from a Cleveland can be used on the crossflow. MustangSix did it on a 200 if you want to read about it here http://www.fordsix.com/XF200ci.php . Bayrunner is also in the process of converting an US 250 to use the crossflow head; he would be able to fill you in. The 250 is taller, so you should be able to use a distributor, plus there are aftermarket intakes, cams, and headers available. Some guys in OZ are pulling 300HP+ NA. They also came with carburetors and EFI.

This may be easier than welding two Tempo heads together, fabricating an intake, and exhaust. Plus you can still use US parts for the bottom end rebuild.
 
Thank you for the input on the project, I welcome it. I have read about the aussie conversion and it seems to be a good idea, but I can't see spending that much money (shipping alone would be prohibitive) on a vehicle I bought for $31. I am an engineer and custom fabricator (R&D), so the built-up head and intake, etc., wouldn't be much of a problem; the idea here has become to build something different and expand our knowledge base of what works and what doesn't. This isn't meant to be a daily driver, but if it proves dependable, who knows. Crossflow is intriguing and if this doesn't prove out I may go that route, but this hasn't been done before and it uses relatively inexpensive salvage yard parts so it is screaming out to be done; who knows, it might become an affordable setup for those who can't afford the crossflow heads. I will do my best to make this work, but if it doesn't it will have cost very little to find that out and no one else will have to wonder about it. However, if it does work, credit needs to be given to wallaka for the idea; it was his knowledge of these two engines that got me interested in this build. Again, please keep the ideas coming; this won't be my last build. If 99 out of 100 attempts fail, only the 1 that succeeded will be remembered. Again, thank you for your input, it holds merit for future consideration.
 
I'm attempting to post some pictures, let's see how well this goes. Sorry for the poor quality, they're cell phone pics.

These are pics of the 2.3 hsc head gasket overlaid on the 250 head gasket



It looks like a few of the water and oil ports may need a little work, but everything seems to line up fairly well, cylinder spacing, bolt and pushrod locations. When I pull the 2.3 hsc heads I'll take more pics to compare to the 250 block.
 
pretty interesting ideas! we've been scavanging internals from the HSC for a long time, but I've never read of someone welding some heads together! Keep us updated!!!
 
ozconv":wxtxiozr said:
Isn't the 2.3L an overhead cam engine?
Click to expand...

Ford made two 2.3L engines for the US market.
A 2.3L OHC engine found in the Pinto, Mustang II, Ranger, Fairmont, and 79+ Mustang.
The 2.3L engine that they are talking about here is an overhead valve with cam in block found in the Tempo/Topaz. This engine is loosely based on the 200cid 6cyl with the same bore and cylinder spacing. That is one reason the pistons from the 2.3L Tempo/Topaz will work in the 200/250. Some people on the form have even retrofitted the TFI distributor to work in the six, and have used the TBI from the 85-87 model to fuel inject their 200.

Hope this helps.
 
rocklord":1g2q309d said:
ozconv":1g2q309d said:
Isn't the 2.3L an overhead cam engine?
Click to expand...

Ford made two 2.3L engines for the US market.
A 2.3L OHC engine found in the Pinto, Mustang II, Ranger, Fairmont, and 79+ Mustang.
The 2.3L engine that they are talking about here is an overhead valve with cam in block found in the Tempo/Topaz. This engine is loosely based on the 200cid 6cyl with the same bore and cylinder spacing. That is one reason the pistons from the 2.3L Tempo/Topaz will work in the 200/250. Some people on the form have even retrofitted the TFI distributor to work in the six, and have used the TBI from the 85-87 model to fuel inject their 200.

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

Si. http://www.tempotopaz.com/main/index.ph ... =35&page=1
 
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