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My Budget 250 build

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CZLN6
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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #101 by CZLN6 » Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:13 pm

Howdy Lavron and All:

May I respectfully suggest that you start a new topic as your posts evolve. There is a section for "Suspension" where folks would love to see what you've done. Just a thought.

Adios, David
co-author of the Falcon Performance Handbook
http://www.falcon6handbook.com/

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lavron
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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #102 by lavron » Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:13 pm

You are right David I really didn't even think about it, I will try to keep my posts in here engine related from here on out.

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, 250- I6, Air Ride, Mll, 8.8 LSD, 4 wheel Discs
Image
Currently a Build in Progress- Whatever I do it will be awesome!

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chad
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My Budget 250 Build Thread

Post #103 by chad » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:11 pm

CZLN6 wrote:Howdy Lavron and All:
May I respectfully suggest that you start a new topic as your posts evolve. There is a section for "Suspension" where folks would love to see what you've done. Just a thought.
Adios, David


Is there a "Build Thread" forum on here? This would B 1 I'd luv 2C take advantage of that type opportunity...
It would B nice (I know, an alternative to ur statement/idea/this forum's purpose) to have something like that.

May B on the new site Perry is in process of moving us to? May B here now? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Thnx~
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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lavron
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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #104 by lavron » Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:28 pm

Just an update I got my oil pan modification done to work with the M2 front suspension and steering rack, I am going to string a bunch of pictures here with short comments (I hope) on how I did it.

First you need a perfectly good 250 oil pan like this;
Image

But before I start chopping this thing up, I need to measure a few things so I put the motor in with all the mounts and made this template that showed the minimum requirements for everything to fit.
Image

Then let the cutting begin.
Image

I left the rear section in the pan until all the welding was done BTW and cut it out near the end.

I reinstalled the cut pan and checked clearances again, looks good over the steering rack on each side.
Image

I welded up a box and patchworked some heavier galvanized steel together that had leftover from building the shed (going to guess around 18 gauge, approx. 8"X2" C-channel)
Image

I then welded all the added parts together separate from the original pan to avoid warping the pan as much as possible. I bolted the pan fully to the block and welded the added part onto the pan.
Image

I made a dipstick tube out of a piece of pre-flared 3/8" brake line from the auto parts store (12") I cut the flare off one end, made a tube to attach an inverted flare to 1/4"NPT adapter to out of a piece of scrap metal (tractor stabilizer bar) and a 1/4" NPT nut (from an old light fixture) welded to a heavy washer. I also added a couple of 1/2" NPT drain bungs.
Image

At this point I unbolted the pan and gave a sigh of relief, it was not warped at all as far as I could tell, I cut the rest of the bottom out of the original pan and made some baffles and welded them inside the pan.
Image

I then cleaned up all the welds, acid etched the pan and applied marine-tex epoxy to all the seams because I do not trust my welding to be leak free :roll:
Image

Then I sanded it down and added a little thin coat of JB Weld to some low spots (you know to make it smoother and prettier)
Image

Next was a coat of POR15 to the entire pan.
Image

I have read, right or wrong, if you want to paint POR15 you need to fog it with primer or paint as soon as it flashes (if you want paint to stick), I may have missed that window but dusted it with primer anyway.
Image

And finally after that was dry I sprayed it with truck bed lining finishing it up.
Image

While I was waiting on paint to dry, etc. I went ahead and made the rear sump oil pick-up tube (or modified the original). I used a 9" piece of 3/4" tube, the original slipped snugly inside the pipe, and welded.
Image

I guessed on the stud mount main because I don't have the bolt yet, so I may be modifying the mount in the future when I finally track down a main bolt with a stud.

Everything fits fine and I have magnetic drain plugs on the way, so this little project is finished, I am about to run out of excuses for not taking this engine to the machine shop now.

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, 250- I6, Air Ride, Mll, 8.8 LSD, 4 wheel Discs
Image
Currently a Build in Progress- Whatever I do it will be awesome!

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chad
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Budget 250 build

Post #105 by chad » Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:08 am

how ja determine the p/u tube/screen 2 B 1/8 inch offa the 'floor' of the pan? I'm at that spot right now.

Gunna do somea da same ww/my 250 ina bronk - hope no change on dipstick tube or that radical 'woop de do' in the bottom profile of whole pan. I may need ta use a spare 250 to hold/weld 250 "ring" to 170 "pan" = my rear sump 250. Gotta avoid the frnt chunk ona 4WD rig. :nod:

Not sure I will need the long-run p/u tube, tryin the 170's (diameters different w/the 250?). Seen the 'support' offa the main's bolt'n wonder if I'll need that as well.

Blessings on those who go B4....
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #106 by lavron » Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:09 am

chad wrote:how ja determine the p/u tube/screen 2 B 1/8 inch offa the 'floor' of the pan?


The rear sump is the same depth from the block as the original pan, I bolted the pump and unmodified pickup tube and measured the distance (right around 7") made a template to sit on the block pan mating surface and held it while I got everything lined up and tack welded, put the pan on and made sure everything fit still before removing it all and doing the final welding.

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, 250- I6, Air Ride, Mll, 8.8 LSD, 4 wheel Discs
Image
Currently a Build in Progress- Whatever I do it will be awesome!

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chad
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Budget 250 build

Post #107 by chad » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:07 am

OK, cool, thnx!
may B4 I braze on the bottom 1/2 I'll treat it like a window & measure thru there,
Worried abt how much change of demention the heat will do to tube. Go slo'n correct if needed
like much else I guess.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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bubba22349
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Re: My Budget 250 Build Thread

Post #108 by bubba22349 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:17 am

chad wrote:
CZLN6 wrote:Howdy Lavron and All:
May I respectfully suggest that you start a new topic as your posts evolve. There is a section for "Suspension" where folks would love to see what you've done. Just a thought.
Adios, David


Is there a "Build Thread" forum on here? This would B 1 I'd luv 2C take advantage of that type opportunity...
It would B nice (I know, an alternative to ur statement/idea/this forum's purpose) to have something like that.

May B on the new site Perry is in process of moving us to? May B here now? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Thnx~


Yes there is a forum for Build Threads" that would be perfect to document your great Comet build up. It is located here viewforum.php?f=60

Since your Mercury Comet shares much with the Falcon's you could probally start one in the "Falcon Forum" or you could also make one in the "Other Forum" too. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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chad
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Budget 250 build

Post #109 by chad » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:40 am

cool "Car Corral". Not sure I been there.
I wondered where build threads went on this site.
A tech forum ("144-250 "Small Block" Six Performance")
didn't seem 'just right' for them tho.

Would admin be movin the few here to their place on "Corral"?
If here (as some R) I think "the nxt guy" might see em & assume
"Here's the place" incorrectly...?

EDIT:
o0OP, I have been there. THATs where my messily "bronk w/a 250" is....
:shock:
:oops:
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #110 by xctasy » Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:57 pm

Good conversations, people.

Its all peoples personal preferences, and accommodating ideas on coathangers. The best idea on a great coathanger is the Falcon Six Handbook... :thumbup: , so the advice above is important. For instance, if I'd done the Falcon Six Handbook, 90% of it would have been emissions and vac hookups, and then no-one would have bought it.... :bang:


At a personal, individual opinion (very subjective thing for someone who gets offended easily).

Whenever someone does something simply stunning, someone decides the thread needs to be broken up. Thats okay, it's personal preference, is it not?

We aren't all the same.

IMHO, a sump is 90% engine related, 10% topography. (Evenly, 5%Chassis and then 5% Suspension, which impinge on the way the sump has to be front, middle or back pick-up, or dual hump with another pickup like a Fox or Late V8 Explorer).

Chassis and suspension are linked to the type of car. An Early Bronco is different to an X shell Uni body.

Problem is, dumping the elements of this thread might not go to Suspension, which is not well frequented. I found this from the Roundbody Falcon nest.

:hmmm: As a note on all of this.....Mike, meet Rich.....

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=78629
xctasy wrote:Seriously, you and lavron need to talk...

lavron wrote:......

The front is near finished as well, needs the upper bag mounts installed as well as the air bags.

Image

It is a Mustang 2 install I have cobbled together from various vendors.

Going to start mocking the 250 in there soon building motor and transmission (T5 from 96 Mustang) mounts and seeing how much I have to modify the oil pan, I think I can move the bottom of the pan up to 3.5" below the block surface and still clear all the rotating parts, it is going to be a tight fit for sure.

I actually have a build thread over on the Comet Central Forum and I can link to it if anyone wants to read it.

See Ya,
Mike
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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chad
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Budget 250 build

Post #111 by chad » Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:54 pm

"...We aren't all the same...."
no? but wait:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_consensus_effect

:idea:
:shock:
:oops:
:stick:
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #112 by lavron » Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:00 pm

xctasy wrote: As a note on all of this.....Mike, meet Rich.....


Thanks X, me and CobraGuy have met :P

I have a call in to a local machinist about boring my block, if that fails to pan out I will be looking at O'Reilly's as my only other choice, which is not so local. I talked to a local mechanic and he said talk directly to the O'Reilly machine shop and don't relay through the local parts store.

I am going to take my block, crank, rods, pistons and ARP rod bolts whichever way I end up going this time around, need the engine bored 20 over and I want them to look at the crank and see if it needs anything (hoping not) have then install the pistons on the rods and put the rod bolts in and finally check and see about decking the block to zero. For some reason this whole thing is making me nervous because I have to give up control to some big shop.

I am seriously considering the aluminum head even though this is a budget build, is it ready to bolt on with no machine work? Or will it have to be milled? It is a lot of money but I don't intend to ever do this motor again and not sure I want to sink money into my current head if eventually I was to get the aluminum head.

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, 250- I6, Air Ride, Mll, 8.8 LSD, 4 wheel Discs
Image
Currently a Build in Progress- Whatever I do it will be awesome!

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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #113 by lavron » Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:56 pm

chad wrote:Not sure I will need the long-run p/u tube, tryin the 170's (diameters different w/the 250?). Seen the 'support' offa the main's bolt'n wonder if I'll need that as well.


Chad sorry I missed that question, but the 250 and 170/200 oil pumps and pickup tubes are way different.

Image

I am not sure how different the Bronc tube is but I would think it would be really thin as well and of course they bolt in two different places.

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, 250- I6, Air Ride, Mll, 8.8 LSD, 4 wheel Discs
Image
Currently a Build in Progress- Whatever I do it will be awesome!

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chad
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rear sumpa 250

Post #114 by chad » Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:12 am

that 2nd pic really helps Mike. I heard the p/u tubes were of diff diameters.
I'm gunna try what U have'n hope 1 will slide into the other or some other way to bridge 170's inside my 170/250 pan
.
This month will B "gettin into it". Only assume the braze together/sump swap is needed, will C when putting in 250/NV 3550. I've
heard there is some interference @ frnt chunk/motor's oil pan. Did put on 1 inch BL for this reason. Heard my SL (2 inch) can benefit here too (yeah?).

Thnx 4 da post-back~
:nod:
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Budget 250 build

Post #115 by xctasy » Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:23 pm

chad wrote:"...We aren't all the same...."
no? but wait:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_consensus_effect

:idea:
:shock:
:oops:
:stick:


A rod of correction exists for the typical arguments. IMHO, Dividing and conquering isnt the way forward with 250 engine related posts.


Image

The mutually exclusive truth, exceptions report argument.

I'm a Rogers & Hammerstien man, and reworking a 250 is like being s Fiddler on the Roof.

A difficult balancing act of Different Strokes for Different Folks. The 21 block differences of the 250 require delicate historonic research to avoid it hitting the long run iron.

Compression deck,
carb issues,
compression ratios,
cast iron rods,
ignition

and what happens to the rev range of a stroker engine constrain some choices, but the payoff is just like other orphan strokers like the 360 Mopar, 400 Ford, 351 Windsor and the 400 Chev. Those engines were crotchety to work, looked the same as the good 340's, 351 C, 302 W's and 350's but they were only heaps more responsive to the very narrow focus of right gear than the little versions.

Ak Miller managed the whole 250 engine with supreme simplicity.

Jahns pistons and triple carbs , forged rods, cams if it wad not a turbo, and if it was, a simple turbo with a better carb.

How we like this info conveyed is the issue. The 250 is a whole process of modifications that the Falcon Six book addresses brilliantly.Accessory drives, Sumps, Suspensions, steering linkages and engine mounts are always a 250 issue, and any time a readet has to go on an Easter Egg hunt for infomation by dividing it up into a multiple room survival quest for info, important purchasing info is lost

Examples are the 302 SBF timing gear and the BMC 1275 based Toyota 18R timing chain shared with the Holden 253/304/308/350.

That info was lost for 18 months until 2016 while the information wad partitioned.

The same with the 6" HSO Taurus conrods.All the posts had the dates incorrectky ordered, and that info got nested away.

Then the picture size limits, which I thumb nailed to ensure the board had acess to the pictures. The pictures were off accessory drives and details which now wont copy over in posts unless considerable time is spent.



These days, people only do strokers, and the aftermarket cater for specific combinations, and its only the US that caters for Ford Six cylinder parts. Overseas concerns are on the way out, and the USA just has to pick up the inventory and do the same job here.

Corporate USA can make good money on making parts for the specific and diverse needs of the 250, like the Pico River flash did when he made Ak Miller Enterprises the go to place for a 200 to 300 hp in line six.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #116 by drag-200stang » Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:21 am

Lavron,
You are doing great work, looks good. :thumbup:
66 Mustang Coupe
200 turbo w/lenco 4-spd
stock adj. rockers, stock timing set, ARP studs
best 1/4 mile ET 9.85/best mph 139 on 8 lbs progressing to 15 lbs boost
Went 9's when 10's was fast.

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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #117 by lavron » Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:09 am

drag-200stang wrote:You are doing great work, looks good.


Thanks.

Just to confirm, are the 250 and SBF (or which years/engines) main bolts the same size? I need a studded main bolt for my oil pump pick-up tube.

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, 250- I6, Air Ride, Mll, 8.8 LSD, 4 wheel Discs
Image
Currently a Build in Progress- Whatever I do it will be awesome!

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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #118 by xctasy » Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:25 am

See Bob the Buildes pictures
and bubbas note on the pickup clip. The stock 300 big six head studs become the bottom 250 main studs.

viewtopic.php?t=70677#p541861
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #119 by lavron » Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:30 am

xctasy wrote:See Bob the Buildes pictures


Can't see any of the pictures.

I really just need the one main bolt with the stud sticking out to hold my rear sump oil pickup tube like the SBF rear sump motors have.

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, 250- I6, Air Ride, Mll, 8.8 LSD, 4 wheel Discs
Image
Currently a Build in Progress- Whatever I do it will be awesome!

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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #120 by xctasy » Fri Apr 26, 2019 2:52 am

Sorry Mike, Bobs only active picture log is the 97 item , 5 page cfyfairlane photobucket, so all the earlier pictures are no more.

Look at Mike1157's here or a Stangnet ( where he is CarMichealAngelo or Four Eyed Pride, where his posts are, but they aren't accessable except by "Gila Monster FourEyed Pride" google picture search.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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chad
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My Budget 250 build

Post #121 by chad » Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:52 am

"...Sorry Mike, Bobs only active picture log is the 97 item...so all the earlier pictures are no more..."
Not in ur archive X ? Thought U hadem all...
:lol:
7 million terabytes?
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #122 by drag-200stang » Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:10 am

lavron wrote:
drag-200stang wrote:You are doing great work, looks good.


Thanks.

Just to confirm, are the 250 and SBF (or which years/engines) main bolts the same size? I need a studded main bolt for my oil pump pick-up tube.

See Ya,
Mike

Sorry I I do not know for sure about the 250 - Main bolts.
I know you can weld...If you have any decent amount of threads past the nut when the main is torqued down you could weld a short bolt to one end of another nut and the tighten it down with lock tight making a stud.
66 Mustang Coupe
200 turbo w/lenco 4-spd
stock adj. rockers, stock timing set, ARP studs
best 1/4 mile ET 9.85/best mph 139 on 8 lbs progressing to 15 lbs boost
Went 9's when 10's was fast.

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lavron
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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #123 by lavron » Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:36 pm

I don't have studs just regular main bolts.

I just need the bolt in the picture below.
Image

and are 200 main bolts the same? I know they had a rear sump pan.

I will go out and measure the bolt.

Thanks for the help guys.

See Ya,
Mike
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chad
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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #124 by chad » Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:32 pm

lavron wrote:Just to confirm, are the 250 and SBF (or which years/engines) main bolts the same size? I need a studded main bolt for my oil pump pick-up tube

I see.
Did you hafta buy the whole set just for the one.

I'm tryin to rig up a stud & two bolts (4 ?) that will capture the lll tab
on the p/u tube 'support'. I need thread count/pitch, diam & approx. length...
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #125 by lavron » Fri Apr 26, 2019 2:57 pm

chad wrote:Did you hafta buy the whole set just for the one.


I haven't bought anything yet, still trying to figure out if they exchange.

I went out and measured one of my main bolts.
Image

Which is exactly the same size as the head bolt (appear to be the exact same bolts) now I just need to confirm the SBF main bolts are the same, searching right now for that info.

See Ya,
Mike
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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #126 by bubba22349 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 3:23 pm

You should be able to use the 5.0 / 302 main bolt. The 5.0 with its rear sump pan has a stud for the pickup tube support. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #127 by chad » Fri Apr 26, 2019 3:24 pm

aw, gosh, U do all the hard wrk, Mike.
(Glad U do...mine's 15 mi away...
:roll:

If that's a 3 inch bolt - the lill extension on the end 4 da tab looks bout a 1/4 inch?
Also three 4th the diam - may B 1/4, 20?
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #128 by lavron » Fri Apr 26, 2019 3:43 pm

bubba22349 wrote:You should be able to use the 5.0 / 302 main bolt. The 5.0 with its rear sump pan has a stud for the pickup tube support. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:


Thanks Bubba!

chad wrote:aw, gosh, U do all the hard wrk, Mike.


Well I have to admit a lot of this if I ever knew it I forgot it :roll:

Now to find the bolt, cheap, been finding them for around $20 each out there, seems a little pricey to me :roll: may not know where to look or I may end up scouring the JY for one, now that I know what I am looking for :P

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My Budget 250 build

Post #129 by chad » Fri Apr 26, 2019 4:11 pm

nuttin that ol round here.
I imagined bein under a vehicle (yeah right, they leave um all right on the ground, in da dirt) w/a butane (to heat it up),
loosen an 1/16th, tighten. loosen an 1/8th, tighten, loosen a 1/4, etc). I'll send ya $25 if ya find ONE. :lol:
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #130 by lavron » Fri Apr 26, 2019 4:22 pm

Thinking about just getting this set of main studs from Summit and using an extra nut to attach my pickup tube too.

Speedmaster 250-6 main studs

I would rather spend $44 for a whole set of studs than $20 for one bolt :roll: :lol:

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, 250- I6, Air Ride, Mll, 8.8 LSD, 4 wheel Discs
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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #131 by drag-200stang » Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:24 pm

Oops, I saw arp and thought studs,
200 mains are shorter and not as tall as a 250, so that will be to short.
If you go with studs make sure you check oil pump to stud clearance and shorten it if you have to, before finish work.
66 Mustang Coupe
200 turbo w/lenco 4-spd
stock adj. rockers, stock timing set, ARP studs
best 1/4 mile ET 9.85/best mph 139 on 8 lbs progressing to 15 lbs boost
Went 9's when 10's was fast.

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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #132 by lavron » Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:02 pm

drag-200stang wrote:Oops, I saw arp and thought studs


Well I went ahead and ordered the studs, not sure if Speedmaster stuff is any good but ARP doesn't offer a set for the 250, hopefully studs will be an upgrade over stock bolts irregardless.

Also, if nothing happens the block is finally going next week to be bored, decked, balanced and the Aussie pistons pressed onto the 2.5L HSC/OHV rods. I will get there eventually :roll:

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Mike
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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #133 by lavron » Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:31 pm

Not sure you guys are interested in looking at this video I made on my progress a few days ago, it is mostly on fitting the 250 down in my Comet with the M2 front end, but I do talk about a couple of other things.

https://vimeo.com/330165656

Sorry about the audio quality it really sucks, I have my GoPro Hero in a selfie stick and it is pointing away from me and when I really extend the stick to get down in the engine bay the microphone gets too far away.

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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #134 by Max_Effort » Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:15 am

lavron wrote:
drag-200stang wrote:Oops, I saw arp and thought studs


Well I went ahead and ordered the studs, not sure if Speedmaster stuff is any good but ARP doesn't offer a set for the 250, hopefully studs will be an upgrade over stock bolts irregardless.

Also, if nothing happens the block is finally going next week to be bored, decked, balanced and the Aussie pistons pressed onto the 2.5L HSC/OHV rods. I will get there eventually :roll:

See Ya,
Mike

Speedmaster is absolute crap. Use the stock bolts, return the studs.

If you really want studs, call ARP direct, they have more than what’s in the catalog. Once studs are installed the block need to be align honed.

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My Budget 250 build

Post #135 by chad » Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:45 am


Real nice ta meet ya in this new way!
Don't B concerned abt the audio (or video) quality. It wrked great 4 me!
I'm most interested in ur suspension mods (any way to get quality, performance, affordability) is of interest to me.
Did not C enuff detail to C the air bag set up, camera moved too fast over those details.

Will also stay subscribed as the rear sump is a place our projects connect.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #136 by lavron » Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:58 pm

chad wrote:I'm most interested in ur suspension mods (any way to get quality, performance, affordability) is of interest to me.
Did not C enuff detail to C the air bag set up, camera moved too fast over those details.


Thanks Chad, if you look on Vimeo you might see a video under my name of me testing the air bags out for the first time.

Someday when I get closer to finished I will make a video showing everything I have done to the Comet and post is somewhere on the forum.

If I get the block off to the shop next week I will be working to get the engine bay prepped for it's eventual return (working on that now) I also am building my own wiring harness so that is something I have to get going on, probably not the most exciting stuff but required (at least for me) to get done and on the road.

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, 250- I6, Air Ride, Mll, 8.8 LSD, 4 wheel Discs
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My Budget 250 build

Post #137 by chad » Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:16 pm

"...of me testing the air bags out..."
yes, saw that last Oct here in this thread, just can't C
how/where U set them (bags) on the frnt end, no matter. I C the request to have the 'motor build" in this thread only ; another for the suspension...Onto
where our rigs do match.

I think U said U will use the Ford 2.5L HSC/OHV Connecting Rods to zero the deck w/o a mill pass.
Did U locate a piston ("My Budget 250 build") for this combo? What is it? How far "dwn the hole" now? What duz the head cc out to now (or should I say nxt month, LOL)?

Thanks for bringin me along ur trip, Mike...gettin close now.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #138 by lavron » Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:14 am

chad wrote:I think U said U will use the Ford 2.5L HSC/OHV Connecting Rods to zero the deck w/o a mill pass.
Did U locate a piston ("My Budget 250 build") for this combo? What is it? How far "dwn the hole" now? What duz the head cc out to now (or should I say nxt month, LOL)?


I may have to deck the block approx 10 thousandths to achieve zero deck.

The pistons are Silv-O-Lite 3332H for an Australian Ford 250 (Stock 250 rods measure 5.880", replacing them with 2.5L HSC rods I would move the piston up the bore .110" that would leave .040" of deck height [with stock US pistons]. Replace the stock US 250 piston with a AUS 250 piston the difference in pin height .030" moving the top of the piston up the bore another .030" leaving .010" of deck height which could be milled off the block deck to bringing it to zero deck block.) These pistons have a 12.863cc dish on top so compression won't go too high.

I still don't know on the head cc yet because I am not sure I won't go with the Aluminum head, I have a big log '72 head off of a 200.

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Mike
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My Budget 250 build

Post #139 by chad » Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:25 am

OK, head spinnin a lill right now (CR, quench, con rod, piston, rod to stroke ratio). It takes me awhile.
Archive will eat this info for next round ina few yrs. I need 200K mi to let it sink in and raise the $ both...

Thank you.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #140 by lavron » Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:23 pm

chad wrote:OK, head spinnin a lill right now (CR, quench, con rod, piston, rod to stroke ratio). It takes me awhile.
Archive will eat this info for next round ina few yrs. I need 200K mi to let it sink in and raise the $ both...

Thank you.


Well all the stuff I am doing is not required by any means, I just have a particular outcome in mind and this is the last time I intend to ever build the motor in my Comet.

As far as me contemplating getting an aluminum head (which I may not do) it is not required for the changes I am doing to the short block, the pistons and rods are no more expensive than the stock replacement parts, just harder to find, nor is the machine work anything special.

See Ya,
Mike
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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #141 by lavron » Sat May 04, 2019 12:42 am

Short block went to the machine shop today, finally :roll:

Maybe eventually we will be able to find out if this whole thing is going to work as planned :P

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Mike
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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #142 by lavron » Tue May 14, 2019 6:33 pm

Because the short block is off to the machine shop I have been working on my head, more specifically the intake mod I am doing, this is what I have done so far.

Image

I will cast it in aluminum, I have someone with a furnace/forge I just need to get a crucible, sand and some scrap aluminum, I think the old 250 pistons are going to go into the pot, I thought it would be cool if they stayed with the engine.

See Ya,
Mike
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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #143 by xctasy » Tue May 14, 2019 8:23 pm

Truely beautifull...well done!
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #144 by drag-200stang » Tue May 14, 2019 8:25 pm

X2 :thumbup:
66 Mustang Coupe
200 turbo w/lenco 4-spd
stock adj. rockers, stock timing set, ARP studs
best 1/4 mile ET 9.85/best mph 139 on 8 lbs progressing to 15 lbs boost
Went 9's when 10's was fast.

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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #145 by lavron » Wed May 15, 2019 1:51 am

Thanks guys, I am probably going to need some help figuring out how to run the accelerator cable and fabricate a bracket, so far all I have is a pedal mounted in the car off of a 1994-1998 Thunderbird, Cougar and Mark VIII. Not sure what the Escort bracket looks like but I would probably have to change it some anyway, can't really find any detailed pictures.

Not doing a progressive linkage so just an adjustable bar linking all three carbs, also going to pull the auto chokes off a make some sort of manual choke and I think that I would just need a fast idle cam on one carb.

I am thinking it might be easiest to let the cable pull on the rear or the center carb, I guess I need to check the travel on the pedal and see how long a arm on the carb I need to reach WOT at that pull.

See Ya,
Mike
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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #146 by xctasy » Wed May 15, 2019 2:22 am

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=77043&p=592939#p592939

The fix.....


viewtopic.php?f=1&t=76577&p=589580#p589580l



Copy Varilux's 69 Mustang short Lokar cable with a direct pivoted bracket.The actuation will be smooth and easy to arrange.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #147 by lavron » Wed May 15, 2019 7:55 am

Thanks X the pictures help, I don't think I will copy the Offy pivot arms but maybe the larger crank will work for me.

I have my current 3x1 sitting here I can look at, I do agree with the header clearance issue but I never did have any kind of sticking with it, of course like I said I am not doing the progressive part so it should help in my situation some.

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, 250- I6, Air Ride, Mll, 8.8 LSD, 4 wheel Discs
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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #148 by lavron » Wed May 15, 2019 6:14 pm

Like I said earlier the pictures helped spark a plan on how to do the throttle so I went out today and made a new throttle arm, the hardest thing was making the oval hole where the throttle shaft goes through the arm.

The red string represents how the carb linkage rod will go through, there will new a connection on the center arm where you can see I drilled the hole, the other two auto chokes will come off as well and I will build a manual choke system. The magnetic arm represents the throttle cable and I will build a bracket for the end of the cable near the rear carb. The pedal has about 3.5" of travel so I think I am ok with my arm length.

Image

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, 250- I6, Air Ride, Mll, 8.8 LSD, 4 wheel Discs
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My Budget 250 build: trips on DIY log

Post #149 by chad » Wed May 15, 2019 8:48 pm

yeah, good idea. Getta peddle etc to C how it will coordinate w/it all now B4 proceedin too far.
Don't 4get the headers'n, A/C (as in other fella's).
Lookin good~
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #150 by lavron » Wed May 15, 2019 10:13 pm

chad wrote:Getta peddle etc to C how it will coordinate w/it all now B4 proceedin too far.


I have the pedal already mounted in the car. I will probably try and do a complete mockup soon I have a 200 block on a stand I can use to bolt the head on (actually the motor the head came off of) Will probably wait and fabricate the rear cable bracket until I get the motor installed and the new intake cast (I may try and cast 2 or 3 if I can scrape together enough scrap aluminum in case of mistakes)

I am not sure if my AC bracket will bolt on the 200 or not, of course I don't have a compressor anyway but I would like to find a more compact unit like a Sanden anyway (I know they make conversion brackets, or I could make some)

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, 250- I6, Air Ride, Mll, 8.8 LSD, 4 wheel Discs
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Currently a Build in Progress- Whatever I do it will be awesome!

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