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My Budget 250 build

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chad
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My Budget 250 build-A/C bracket

Post #151 by chad » Wed May 15, 2019 10:26 pm

fun, fun, fun!

I no U will get there frm seein whatja do.

Sanden is beddah den York (size wise) Ck Wolwo's..
X may have an ider or 2.
I C a nice low right side (rare, aftr mrkt?) pass side bracket on another member here's.
Bulky but compact, has extensive frnt'n back armature...
Not sure it will help but a thought (of mine 4 U)...
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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lavron
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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #152 by lavron » Fri May 17, 2019 11:43 pm

Few minutes today I built a throttle linkage rod, ok with it to a certain extent but really don't like the center link I built, that is ok there is only about $2.50 in parts there.

Image

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, 250- I6, Air Ride, Mll, 8.8 LSD, 4 wheel Discs
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Currently a Build in Progress- Whatever I do it will be awesome!

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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #153 by lavron » Mon May 20, 2019 5:26 pm

Some more work on my 3x2 intake pattern, pretty close to finished except for some sanding and light fill.

Image

Going to board mount it and build three moulding flasks so I can try to pour three in case there are mistakes.

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, 250- I6, Air Ride, Mll, 8.8 LSD, 4 wheel Discs
Image
Currently a Build in Progress- Whatever I do it will be awesome!

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chad
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sand casting 3 intakes

Post #154 by chad » Mon May 20, 2019 10:17 pm

tryin 2 catch up on the process -
U covered the wood w/plastic?
That will be placed in the sand, B burned away by the melted ingots pored in?
How will U vent the expanding gasses of burnt plastic as they try'n escape out?
Will the wood B remover 1st?
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #155 by lavron » Tue May 21, 2019 12:04 am

chad wrote:tryin 2 catch up on the process -
U covered the wood w/plastic?
That will be placed in the sand, B burned away by the melted ingots pored in?
How will U vent the expanding gasses of burnt plastic as they try'n escape out?
Will the wood B remover 1st?


This is a wooden pattern (that and bondo), in the last picture it is just been primed, I haven't quite finished it.

It is a split pattern, the parting line is near the top just below the carb flanges, it will be sand moulded and the pattern removed before being cast in aluminum, I will show some pictures once I get it mounted on the moulding board and the flasks built.

After the casting is done it will be machined on the carb mount surface and 6 bolts/screws will hold it on. If tolerances are tight enough I will use RTV to seal between the surfaces, if not I will probably bed the aluminum intake with high temp epoxy and then RTV.

I could probably say the pattern was done right now (good enough for sand casting) but I can be super picky about stuff and want to even some things up and I think I have one spot with negative draft on the top I need to fix.

I wish I had made an impression of the firing order cast on top of the intake before I ground it off because I think it would be neat to cast it on top of the flat between carb 1 and 2, make it look factory"ish" :roll:

I did plane off the top of the lower pattern today slightly to make the profile thinner in case I need to use the fiber spacer under the carbs, the valve cover side really only has to clear the fuel line connections and the only close one is the front where it runs close to the PVC valve.

I was wondering, is the port in the manifold, just below the carb, the PVC connection? (where I have the cutout on my pattern)

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, 250- I6, Air Ride, Mll, 8.8 LSD, 4 wheel Discs
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Currently a Build in Progress- Whatever I do it will be awesome!

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chad
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casting an intake

Post #156 by chad » Tue May 21, 2019 8:37 am

lavron wrote:I was wondering, is the port in the manifold, just below the carb, the PVC connection? (where I have the cutout on my pattern)

wasn't that an 'everything' port?
vac breaks, pcv, dizzy, etc ? I've seen a brass fitting tube or barrel-like thing w/3 or 4 nipples on it there...
not sure~
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #157 by Econoline » Tue May 21, 2019 10:17 am

That's the aux manifold port. The carbs usually have a nipple for the pcv.
It ain't gonna fix itself

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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #158 by bubba22349 » Tue May 21, 2019 4:48 pm

lavron wrote:
chad wrote:tryin 2 catch up on the process -
U covered the wood w/plastic?
That will be placed in the sand, B burned away by the melted ingots pored in?
How will U vent the expanding gasses of burnt plastic as they try'n escape out?
Will the wood B remover 1st?


This is a wooden pattern (that and bondo), in the last picture it is just been primed, I haven't quite finished it.

It is a split pattern, the parting line is near the top just below the carb flanges, it will be sand moulded and the pattern removed before being cast in aluminum, I will show some pictures once I get it mounted on the moulding board and the flasks built.

After the casting is done it will be machined on the carb mount surface and 6 bolts/screws will hold it on. If tolerances are tight enough I will use RTV to seal between the surfaces, if not I will probably bed the aluminum intake with high temp epoxy and then RTV.

I could probably say the pattern was done right now (good enough for sand casting) but I can be super picky about stuff and want to even some things up and I think I have one spot with negative draft on the top I need to fix.

I wish I had made an impression of the firing order cast on top of the intake before I ground it off because I think it would be neat to cast it on top of the flat between carb 1 and 2, make it look factory"ish" :roll:

I did plane off the top of the lower pattern today slightly to make the profile thinner in case I need to use the fiber spacer under the carbs, the valve cover side really only has to clear the fuel line connections and the only close one is the front where it runs close to the PVC valve.

I was wondering, is the port in the manifold, just below the carb, the PVC connection? (where I have the cutout on my pattern)

See Ya,
Mike


Hi Mike if you look at your above Tri Power mockup picture (reposted in the link below) the carb on the left rear has a capped off vacuum port on the base this is a PCV port. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=77057&start=150#p619527
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #159 by lavron » Tue May 21, 2019 5:02 pm

Thanks you guys, I will just cap the port in the manifold until/if there is a call for it, I have no power brakes, etc (I like my stuff manual). If it had like a vacuum gauge attached to it what would it show, overall manifold vacuum?

It will take me a bit to figure out what all the ports on those carbs are, there are a bunch of them but I figure most will end up blocked off I am sure many from the '80s were smog control and I know one or two are for an altitude control I am sure one is the vacuum advance. It may take me a while but I will get it once I start using them, there is a big port right in front part of the float bowl (around the corner from the fuel line connection) that I thought was possibly for some sort of fuel/vapor canister?

So used to the Autolite 1100 :roll:

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, 250- I6, Air Ride, Mll, 8.8 LSD, 4 wheel Discs
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Currently a Build in Progress- Whatever I do it will be awesome!

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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #160 by bubba22349 » Tue May 21, 2019 5:40 pm

Yes anything that's tapped into the intake manifold below the carb's throdle blades would read full manifold vacuum. :hmmm: I might be wrong on that vaccum tap on the carb's base its hard for me to tell its size. If it's smaller than a 3/8 inch hose fitting than it isn't for PCV, also the porting in the carb base would be going into the throdle bore below the throdle blade too. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #161 by powerband » Tue May 21, 2019 8:38 pm

was wondering, is the port in the manifold, just below the carb, the PVC connection? (where I have the cutout on my pattern)

... believe all PCV's used the manifold to carb alum. OEM adapter. Lower manifold port would be used for Auto tranny Modulator vacuum and accessory vacuum taps for vacuum wipers, coolant switched advance emissions 2-way diaphragm dist,' etc... . Holley 2300 2bbl, 4bbl , AFB, etc have 3/8 vac port integral.

Put your finger over ported vacuum - there's almost no vacuum (and no advance) at idle with throttle blade in position for that port. Manifold vacuum to distrib' adds advance at idle.

have fun


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multiple nipples on log / carb

Post #162 by chad » Tue May 21, 2019 10:15 pm

"...Holley 2300 2bbl, 4bbl , AFB, etc have 3/8...(PCV)...vac port integral. ..."
I believe my RBS (carter) also has it up on the carb. A male 'peg' sitting out on the side there.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #163 by lavron » Tue May 21, 2019 11:39 pm

Here is the big port I was talking about on the leading edge of the carb, you can see the fuel port facing towards us and it is 90 degrees and below it.

Image

Doesn't the PCV valve just hook to the air cleaner as well? I guess this is what I get for just keeping the road draft tube on my 170 :roll:

And here is the crusty old carb that was on the 200, the PCV valve is entering the lower mounting plate.

Image

I don't have a way to do that on this new set-up I am doing if there isn't a port on the carbs already or if I can't hook to the manifold vacuum port.

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, 250- I6, Air Ride, Mll, 8.8 LSD, 4 wheel Discs
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Currently a Build in Progress- Whatever I do it will be awesome!

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closed PCV system

Post #164 by chad » Wed May 22, 2019 9:05 am

yes, I think we haves 'sticky' on PCV systems.

Trouble is we gotta B a bit of the historian...
I would like to havea closed system so as U say 1 rubber hose goes to the A/C housing
(frm frnt V/C opening).
From the rear V/C opening (PCV) the pcvalve in line goes to the intake "area". I'm thinkin some went to the carb &
depending on yr - others went to the base. May B none ever went to the log, eh?
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #165 by Econoline » Wed May 22, 2019 12:05 pm

There's nothing wrong with hooking it up to the log. It may affect the vacuum signal to any other lines hooked up there, not sure. But since you have nothing else hooked up to it, it won't be problem.
It ain't gonna fix itself

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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #166 by bubba22349 » Wed May 22, 2019 8:47 pm

For the very best PCV system all you need do is follow Fords engineering from the very start they have always used a closed PCV type system. The first part of the system is PCV this removes the contaminates from the engines crankcase and consumes them during the combustion process. On an inline six Ford mounted the PCV valve at one end of the internally baffled valve cover the other end of the hose goes to bottom of most newer carb's (a Vacuum source that's below the throttle blade) or to an adapter plate used between the early style carb's and the intake log, X2 yes this hose can also be connected / mounted to the intakes log vacuum port too.

The second part of the closed system is for fresh air into the engines crankcase is oil fill / breather cap this is mounted on the opposite end of the valve cover as the PCV, it will have a stub hose fitting for the crankcase vent hose that goes to the air cleaner, usally installing it into the bottom of air cleaner base plate this install also looks the cleanest but it will also function the same with it mounted to the top of the air cleaner. A slightly Modded PCV system called an open type or Hot Rod style PCV system can use a open type oil filter / breather cap without the hose bib going into the air cleaner. This system works ok for a car that's not driven very much it also filters the air that's going into the crankcase but depending on the filter of the cap used might also allow some dirt and grit into the engine. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #167 by lavron » Wed May 22, 2019 9:18 pm

You guys are a big help, I think I should be able to take care of the PCV system now, I can't remember the oil cap having a hose I will have to dig it out and look at it.

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, 250- I6, Air Ride, Mll, 8.8 LSD, 4 wheel Discs
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Currently a Build in Progress- Whatever I do it will be awesome!

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closed PCV system

Post #168 by chad » Wed May 22, 2019 9:26 pm

here's one. Can get chrome or not.
Look below on page for 1 w/"pcv nipple".

https://www.vintageinlines.com/product- ... essory-kit
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #169 by lavron » Wed May 22, 2019 10:14 pm

chad wrote:here's one. Can get chrome or not.
Look below on page for 1 w/"pcv nipple"


Thanks Chad, I already have this, I went in and dug around for asn old picture of when I brought the 200 home.

Image

Pretty much is how everyone said :P

I will probably just paint that cap and call it good.

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, 250- I6, Air Ride, Mll, 8.8 LSD, 4 wheel Discs
Image
Currently a Build in Progress- Whatever I do it will be awesome!

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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #170 by wsa111 » Wed May 22, 2019 10:18 pm

The chrome breather does not have enough air flow. If the crankcase pressure exceeds the flow of the PCV & the breathe cap,
Get a Spectre breather cap, it has twice the flow of the chrome cap.
As Bubba stated a hose from the valve cover to the air cleaner will also supply an adequate flow to the valve cover. Take your choice.
67 mustang,C-4, with mod. 80 hd, custom 500 cfm carb with annular boosters, hooker headers, dual exh.-X pipe, flowmaster mufflers, DSII dist. MSD-6al & MSD-Blaster 8252 Coil. Engine 205" .030" over with offset ground crank & 1.65 roller rockers. 9.5 comp., Isky 262 cam.
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My Budget 250 build

Post #171 by chad » Wed May 22, 2019 11:06 pm

lavron wrote:Chad,Image

Hey, if U get rid of that "over the valve cover throttle cable bracket" let me know.
I could use one.
C email in sig below.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #172 by bubba22349 » Wed May 22, 2019 11:07 pm

lavron wrote:
chad wrote:here's one. Can get chrome or not.
Look below on page for 1 w/"pcv nipple"


Thanks Chad, I already have this, I went in and dug around for asn old picture of when I brought the 200 home.

Image

Pretty much is how everyone said :P

I will probably just paint that cap and call it good.

See Ya,
Mike


:beer: great Mike your all set for the correct type valve cover and other parts! :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #173 by lavron » Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:39 am

Update on engine build, I got a call from the machinist and he was actually working on my motor. Of course there was an issue, first he said he needed to bore the block .030 over not .020 I had bought piston for (and waited months to get) second was he had o deck the block (did not ask how much) to true it up and from his calculations with the rods I have and the decking the pistons would be out of the bore.

I told him to go ahead and get stock cast .030 over pistons (I will have the .020 pistons up for sale probably if any one is interested) I will have to deal with compression ratio when the head gets built, he said he could modify the recess on the piston if needed.

The last thing is he was turning the bearing journals all .010 under which is fine I just bought the correct bearings.

Not sure how the math could have been wrong on piston and rod length unless he took a lot off the deck, will hopefully all work out in the end.

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, 250- I6, Air Ride, Mll, 8.8 LSD, 4 wheel Discs
Image
Currently a Build in Progress- Whatever I do it will be awesome!

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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #174 by bubba22349 » Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:08 pm

:bang: well that's a bummer on those new Pistons Mike. With the stock type 250 cast piston you will be down the hole .030 more then the Ausie piston. On the deck cut I doubt normally that he would of took much more than .010 to .020 off, but even if the pistons do end up out the top of the block .010 with a .044 Victor head gasket the quench would be near perfect at .034. With a Felpro .050 then you could be out the top of the deck .015 or .020 and still be at a .035 or .030 quench. Might work out yet and you could open up the head chamber around the valves for a little better flow too. Is there a chance after he has the crank turned down you could get the block back and do a mock up to see were your at now? Is your head a large chamber one? Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #175 by lavron » Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:34 pm

bubba22349 wrote: Is your head a large chamber one? Good luck


Well I never have checked it, it is a 200 head off of a '72 Maverick. I am considering doing the later larger valves and hardened seats, I had considered the 144 intake valves for exhaust valves but I am not sure I want to risk cutting into the water jacket.

He thought it would be zero deck with the longer rods and stock pistons, my only concern is the piston dish size, I am not sure what the stock dish is. I really did not want to do a ton of work on the head if I needed to lower compression but maybe I am over thinking it and it is no big deal.

I wish I had gotten the .030 pistons, I thought about it but changed my mind at the last minute so I am just going to deal with it and know that the piston shortfall (if any) will be less than stock and hopefully CR will be manageable.

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, 250- I6, Air Ride, Mll, 8.8 LSD, 4 wheel Discs
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Currently a Build in Progress- Whatever I do it will be awesome!

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Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #176 by bubba22349 » Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:02 pm

I think you will be okay here is some of what we can know except for the blocks new deck measurement.

With the Auzie Piston the compression height is 1.530
With a stock 250 replacement piston the compression height is 1.500 so .030 shorter so down the hole again
HSC Rod lenght 5.990
Stock 250 Rod lenght 5.880
Bore 3.6830
Crankshaft stroke 3.91
Stock Block height 9.469
FelPro head gasket .050
Stock Block pistion deck with stock 5.880 rods and 1.500 compression height Pistons was .150 down the hole
New block pistion deck height with 5.990 rods and 1.500 compression height Pistons is .040 down the hole before the block deck
milling.

With the Ausie Pistions you would have been only .010 down the hole and a with a .010 clean up mill it would havebeen at a zero deck height. In any case if the Pistons end up .010 to .015 above the deck with a .050 FelPro head gasket it could work out ok then it can be adjusted with cutting a larger piston dish, find a .020 block saver shim or have one made (see below example of a 300 Ford one) or Open up the head combustion chambers some too. I think stock Pistons have about a 13 CC dish.So depending on how much was the amount that that was milled off the block deck there are still some ways to fix it. If I ever get to build another 250 the plan is to tighten up the quench distance to a minimum of .030 or 035 on the short block then dial in the head cambers and cam to suit the combo.

Plugging in all these know above numbers and only have to guess on what the new deck height is, so will use zero deck at .040 (or with even as much as a .060 mill cut) could still work out. For an example I get a static compression ratio of 9.16 with using the stock spec 62 CC 1972 Maverick head plus a .040 mill cut of the block for a zero decked. Often I have found that most Ford heads will measure even larger then spec for the Combustion Chambers CC's by 2, 3, or 4 CC's depending how many times they have ever been milled before. Good luck Mike :thumbup: :nod:

FelPro 300 Head Saver Gasket Shim
https://www.summitracing.com/oh/parts/f ... /overview/
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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