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Milling Head for 2bbl

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StarDiero75
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Milling Head for 2bbl

Post #1 by StarDiero75 » Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:24 pm

Howdy guys,

So here is the time to start in on my 1980 hex head that will get the 2bbl conversion. I'm taking a machine shop class in school and the teacher said he'd help me as well as a pretty skilled guy in the class as well.

First thing i noticed when setting it up today on the mill was that the carb spot is not flat, its tilted slightly as well as the log. I knew that b/c the engine sits slightly back so that counters that. My question is, can i mill it parallel to the head gasket surface? If i mill it flat the angled way, its gonna be a lot harder to set and lose a lot more material on the lower side to try to keep it the same angle.

I've seen this discussed before on other forums but i just wanted to make sure. I don't think its super important but I'll let you experts tell me otherwise. I'll hopefully be back at it on Monday.

Thanks guys,
Ryan
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200, dual friction diaphram 9" Modern Driveline clutch and billet flywheel all balanced, 1985 SVO WC T5 with front shift, 1966 2.8 Ford 8", Weber 32/26 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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chad
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Direct mount 2bbl

Post #2 by chad » Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:59 am

"I don't think its super important..."
no, it is.
Not the expert U mention here. But I research well. U R missing a 1st step again.

Plez ck the tech archive (crossed screwdriver'n wrench above) for some good pic, also the Handbook.

Most do a 'fill" 1st, machine, may B nother fill'n final mill pass.
Some use a forge weld techn for the fill.

We also have many pic of mistakes (more of them than those properly done). Remove frm table , design a 2, 3* wedge, do the fill & re-bolt to table. Trying to 'make up' w/the adapter will leave a vac leak.
Last edited by chad on Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Milling Head for 2bbl

Post #3 by 63falcon4drwagon » Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:33 am

I just installed a China made $72.00 Carter BBD lowtop 285 cfm two barrel on my large log 1978 200 head.
Both the cable throttle and cable C4 kickdown cable are connected to the gas pedal under the dash.
I welded an arm on to the carb choke linkage to use my stock 1963 choke cable.
The Carter BBD has 1 1/4" throttle bores which are closely spaced making it an easier conversion than a Holley or Autolite.
The adapter I was made from 1" x4" x 6" aluminum.
The carb has to be turned at an angle which turned out great for my 1978 Fairmont cable throttle linkage modifications
I had to raise the carb higher to clear the valve cover so I made an 1/2" red oak carb spacer out of two pieces of 1/4" oak fiberglassed together.
These Chinese carbs don't come with an air cleaner hold down bracket. I had to make one.
I have the stock 1963 Falcon air cleaner modified to fit this carb.
The 1" aluminum is easy to drill and to cut with a router bit.
After drilling 3 pilot holes my tiny drill press would not cut a 1 3/4" hole saw so I used a heavy duty 1/2" hand drill.
The intake and adapter is hogged out so this adapter is not some silly funnel setup.
My first car at age 16: 1956 Victoria 292ci .045 milled heads, Mallory dual point dist, Autolite 4BBL, three on the tree + 3.89 gears.

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Re: Milling Head for 2bbl

Post #4 by frozenrabbit » Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:33 am

You need to stay parallel to the carb mount surface.

Most every carberated engine angles down in the back as installed in the vehicle. The carb mount surface and log angle up in the back compensating for the engine install angle.

Ideally the carb should be level with the ground as much as possible. You want even and level fuel in the bowl of the carb.

Your shop teacher should know that.

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Econoline
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Re: Milling Head for 2bbl

Post #5 by Econoline » Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:33 am

You could make a custom adapter that has the angle built into it. Since the carb is bolted to studs in the adapter it shouldn't be a problem so long as the adapter mounting screws are parallel to the log surface. I've been looking at my cracked D5 head and have decided that the easiest route is to mill it like you say. When I find a good head I'm going to cut off the majority of it like forum member stanyon with a 6" angle grinder w/ a cutting wheel. Then take it to a local machinist I work with when we need things done for work to mill it the rest of the way down and leave as much meat as possible. It looks feasible with a large flat log at least. If I go TBI it won't matter the angle. Otherwise I'll do the angled adapter thing.

63falcon4drwagon wrote:I just installed a China made $72.00 Carter BBD lowtop 285 cfm two barrel on my large log 1978 200 head.
Both the cable throttle and cable C4 kickdown cable are connected to the gas pedal under the dash.
I welded an arm on to the carb choke linkage to use my stock 1963 choke cable.
The Carter BBD has 1 1/4" throttle bores which are closely spaced making it an easier conversion than a Holley or Autolite.


I was just looking at those! How is the carb performing? Holley makes a sniper version.
Image
It ain't gonna fix itself

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Re: Milling Head for 2bbl

Post #6 by StarDiero75 » Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:48 pm

frozenrabbit wrote:You need to stay parallel to the carb mount surface.

Most every carberated engine angles down in the back as installed in the vehicle. The carb mount surface and log angle up in the back compensating for the engine install angle.

Ideally the carb should be level with the ground as much as possible. You want even and level fuel in the bowl of the carb.

Your shop teacher should know that.


I knew i wanted to have the carb as level as possible for the float but i didn't know it'd be that far off.

I didn't ask the shop teacher about that, I wasn't gonna get him involved till i needed to cut.
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200, dual friction diaphram 9" Modern Driveline clutch and billet flywheel all balanced, 1985 SVO WC T5 with front shift, 1966 2.8 Ford 8", Weber 32/26 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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StarDiero75
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Re: Milling Head for 2bbl

Post #7 by StarDiero75 » Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:52 pm

Econoline wrote:You could make a custom adapter that has the angle built into it. Since the carb is bolted to studs in the adapter it shouldn't be a problem so long as the adapter mounting screws are parallel to the log surface. I've been looking at my cracked D5 head and have decided that the easiest route is to mill it like you say. When I find a good head I'm going to cut off the majority of it like forum member stanyon with a 6" angle grinder w/ a cutting wheel. Then take it to a local machinist I work with when we need things done for work to mill it the rest of the way down and leave as much meat as possible. It looks feasible with a large flat log at least. If I go TBI it won't matter the angle. Otherwise I'll do the angled adapter thing.

63falcon4drwagon wrote:I just installed a China made $72.00 Carter BBD lowtop 285 cfm two barrel on my large log 1978 200 head.
Both the cable throttle and cable C4 kickdown cable are connected to the gas pedal under the dash.
I welded an arm on to the carb choke linkage to use my stock 1963 choke cable.
The Carter BBD has 1 1/4" throttle bores which are closely spaced making it an easier conversion than a Holley or Autolite.


I was just looking at those! How is the carb performing? Holley makes a sniper version.
Image

I was just thinking about angling the carb adapter. Do you happen to know what the angle is? I'm gonna use my angle gauge to get it exact but do you know what it should be so i have a reference?

I might try to do the carb adapter angled b/c with this hex head, its gonna eat the front side a lot thinner than the back side. If i make the adapter angled it'll take off roughly the same
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200, dual friction diaphram 9" Modern Driveline clutch and billet flywheel all balanced, 1985 SVO WC T5 with front shift, 1966 2.8 Ford 8", Weber 32/26 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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Re: Milling Head for 2bbl

Post #8 by 62Cometman » Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:25 pm

Obviously always verify with what you have before milling but it should be 3 degrees give or take. You are correct that you could also mill the adapter to makeup for it but that just makes it that much harder cause now the holes are off and at the wrong angle too. So either customer make an adapter and mill the head level or mill the head to the needed angle and everything else sits square.

Good luck :beer:
1962 Mercury Comet 170 ci, Dagenham Trans, 2.83:1 7.25 rear.
She ain't fast but she's fun. 8)

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Re: Milling Head for 2bbl

Post #9 by 63falcon4drwagon » Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:53 pm

63falcon4drwagon wrote:I just installed a China made $72.00 Carter BBD lowtop 285 cfm two barrel on my large log 1978 200 head.
The Carter BBD has 1 1/4" throttle bores which are closely spaced making it an easier conversion than a Holley or Autolite.

I was just looking at those! How is the carb performing? Holley makes a sniper version.
Image[/quote]

It seems to be all the carb or more than this stock engine needs. I was building the adapter for another engine I'm rebuilding but decided to try it on the engine already in my Falcon. I enlarged the intake after stuffing rags and grease in the log. I think the Sniper would work at an angle. The angled stud holes on the intake need to go between the outer carb mount holes when making a one piece adapter. This puts the carb at an angle. My cable throttle would not have been long enough if not angled.
273 ~ {1964 thru 1969} Carter BBD {1.437" Throttle Plates x 1.063" Venturi}.......... 275 CFM Rating
318 ~ {1968 and up} Carter BBD {1.437" Throttle Plates x 1.186 Venturi}............ 285 CFM Rating
383 ~ {1962 thru 1971} Carter BBD {1.563" Throttle Plates x 1.313" Venturi}.......... 365 CFM Rating
My first car at age 16: 1956 Victoria 292ci .045 milled heads, Mallory dual point dist, Autolite 4BBL, three on the tree + 3.89 gears.

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Re: Milling Head for 2bbl

Post #10 by drag-200stang » Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:01 pm

It does not matter what the angle of the carb. as it came, what matters is that it is level as it sits in your car...some like the boat look , I like my car lower in front than the back...
Mill the head even and and make a custom adapter with the angle cut on the top of the adapter and and make the carb. studs straight with it.
If you try to put the angle all in the head you will get too thin to hold threads on one end.
66 Mustang Coupe
200 turbo w/lenco 4-spd
stock adj. rockers, stock timing set, ARP studs
best 1/4 mile ET 9.85/best mph 139 on 8 lbs progressing to 15 lbs boost
Went 9's when 10's was fast.

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Re: Milling Head for 2bbl

Post #11 by powerband » Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:07 pm

.. a few $ .01's on related discussion :

... most popular performance carbs will need to be raised and offset with a spacer or other means if milled to original 1 bbl flange and original pitch angle maintained.

... 'had an idea for a carb adapter for small six cylinder log heads. The idea is to cut steel plate mounting flange copied from a carb base gasket with steel thick enough to prevent warping when welding to a steel plenum or riser. The OEM 1 bbl manifold opening would be opened as typical and ADapter bolted to manifold with carb bolted to flange on top. Drilled steel Flange on top could accommodate offset mount larger 4bbl's , turbo pipes or any carb setup. Bottom drilled plate flange would simply bolt to opened log manifold.

I had someone with access to a CNC plasma cutter try to cut mounting flanges for a Holley 2Bbl 2300 series carb. The 1/8 inch thick test were cut ok but too thin to weld without warping, a 1/4 " plate wouldn't cut clean enough with his equipment.

'kind of like:
(if photobux allows)

Image . Image

similar to:
Image

have fun
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Re: Milling Head for 2bbl

Post #12 by Econoline » Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:50 pm

I'm looking fwd to seeing what you find with your angle finder. When I had my engine on the stand I did my best reckoning and came up with 3* as well iirc. I didn't say for the same reason drag-200stang brought up. If you like the rake of your car, check it in place. I think you know the deal, the float should be basically level as the car sits.
It ain't gonna fix itself

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Re: Milling Head for 2bbl

Post #13 by 63falcon4drwagon » Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:18 am

powerband wrote:.. a few $ .01's on related discussion :
... 'had an idea for a carb adapter for small six cylinder log heads.
have fun

An adapter for an electric choke Carter YFA to small log head would supply plenty of airflow for a small log 200ci six.
I am about to make one out of 1 inch thick aluminum.
The YFA carb will be angled the same as the studs on the intake log.
The original Mustang or Falcon air cleaner can and have been modified to fit a YFA carb.
Even if the intake log was sawed off the intake-exhaust ports would not flow more.
My first car at age 16: 1956 Victoria 292ci .045 milled heads, Mallory dual point dist, Autolite 4BBL, three on the tree + 3.89 gears.

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Re: Milling Head for 2bbl

Post #14 by Econoline » Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:24 am

I'm running one of the chinese yfa's on my 250. I made my adapter from a thick piece of phenolic we have laying around at work. It's on a lrg log head but it's otherwise basically the same. With the stock linkage pivot rod threaded into the side. I had to add a lever extension onto the throttle arm on the carb.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCBCLF76E1w&feature=youtu.be
It ain't gonna fix itself

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Re: Milling Head for 2bbl

Post #15 by tdlund » Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:08 pm

Here’s what I came up with when I was milling my head.
AA9B61B1-20F2-4AF0-BBA7-19641C3D1D1C.jpeg
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Re: Milling Head for 2bbl

Post #16 by 63falcon4drwagon » Sat Apr 06, 2019 1:02 am

It might be easier to adjust the float level and or the air fuel ratio;
or put big tires in the back and small tires in the front?
My first car at age 16: 1956 Victoria 292ci .045 milled heads, Mallory dual point dist, Autolite 4BBL, three on the tree + 3.89 gears.

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Re: Milling Head for 2bbl

Post #17 by 63falcon4drwagon » Sat Apr 06, 2019 1:52 am

Econoline wrote:I'm running one of the chinese yfa's on my 250. I made my adapter from a thick piece of phenolic we have laying around at work. It's on a lrg log head but it's otherwise basically the same. With the stock linkage pivot rod threaded into the side. I had to add a lever extension onto the throttle arm on the carb.]

I was running the Chinese YFA on my large log 200 with 1978 Fairmont cable throttle and brackets before I adapted the Carter BBD.
The Fairmont throttle linkage was a bolt on to the large log head. The Ford carb adapter is a E0BE-9A589-EA which came on a 1978 Fairmont. If you ever find a Fairmont in a wrecking yard grab the throttle cable-linkage-brackets-gas pedal-carb adapter and heat shield. No pivot rod is required.
The Chinese YFA is a great carb for a good price.
The BBD carb will outflow the YFA at higher RPMs.
The strange thing about this BBD conversion is the exhaust tone of my hated old droning turbo muffler that I wanted to replace has changed.
At full throttle + higher RPMs it sounds like a 6 cylinder race car!
Tonight I floored it until the C4 full of 303 tractor fluid shifted at 35 mph then I held it in second at until 70 mph then shifted it to high.
All the while enjoying this new 6 cylinder race car exhaust sound!
My first car at age 16: 1956 Victoria 292ci .045 milled heads, Mallory dual point dist, Autolite 4BBL, three on the tree + 3.89 gears.

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Re: Milling Head for 2bbl

Post #18 by bmbm40 » Sat Apr 06, 2019 6:20 pm

63falcon4drwagon wrote:
Econoline wrote:The Chinese YFA is a great carb for a good price.
The BBD carb will outflow the YFA at higher RPMs.
The strange thing about this BBD conversion is the exhaust tone of my hated old droning turbo muffler that I wanted to replace has changed.
At full throttle + higher RPMs it sounds like a 6 cylinder race car!
Tonight I floored it until the C4 full of 303 tractor fluid shifted at 35 mph then I held it in second at until 70 mph then shifted it to high.
All the while enjoying this new 6 cylinder race car exhaust sound!


That is pretty awesome! Flogging the old c4. And having it sound better is a big plus.
66 Bronco-1970 250, NV3550, DSII, 4 turn ps, uncut, 1" bl, 2.5" sl, front disc, twin stick D 20, 30 x 9.50
NEXT- direct mount 1.08 on D8 head, power brakes, rear limited slip, 3G, electric fan, electric upgrades, custom curved DSII, header, 31" tires

New guy? Get the Falcon Performance Handbook and Ford six high performance parts from https://vintageinlines.com

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Re: Milling Head for 2bbl

Post #19 by StarDiero75 » Sat Apr 06, 2019 11:45 pm

63falcon4drwagon wrote:It might be easier to adjust the float level and or the air fuel ratio;
or put big tires in the back and small tires in the front?

I got hijacker shocks so i can lift the rear, if need be
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200, dual friction diaphram 9" Modern Driveline clutch and billet flywheel all balanced, 1985 SVO WC T5 with front shift, 1966 2.8 Ford 8", Weber 32/26 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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Re: Milling Head for 2bbl

Post #20 by StarDiero75 » Wed May 01, 2019 3:41 am

Finally did the 2V hog out and cut. I got to use the mill machine at school, so this was really cool to do myself. Now I'm working on making the adapter plate. I woulda cut lower to hog it out even more but i don't have equipment to braze or the time to JB Weld the low spots. It looks pretty good to me though.

Should i cut my own gasket for the adaptee plate and this, or should i JB weld it to the head? I was told the expanding and contracting at different rates will crack the JB weld so i should cut my own gasket

What do you all think?

Ryan
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--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200, dual friction diaphram 9" Modern Driveline clutch and billet flywheel all balanced, 1985 SVO WC T5 with front shift, 1966 2.8 Ford 8", Weber 32/26 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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Re: Milling Head for 2bbl

Post #21 by drag-200stang » Wed May 01, 2019 9:29 am

Looks good :thumbup:
There is plenty of sealing surface to work well, but in the pic, another bolt needs to be added on the right at about the same space or closer from the edge as the left lower bolt spot...You have a lot of sealing surface but it needs to be clamped even or it can leak. take a magic marker and draw it on the manifold and you can see what will be best for even clamping force.
Make a gasket using about 1/6'' material and dope it up both sides with permatex #3 , let it sit and soak in, let it dry some, do manifold and bolts too, not so much that it is dripping more like tacky.
Time is your friend, Wait as long as you can before putting in service...Re torque as necessary but do not over torque it.
Last edited by drag-200stang on Thu May 02, 2019 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
66 Mustang Coupe
200 turbo w/lenco 4-spd
stock adj. rockers, stock timing set, ARP studs
best 1/4 mile ET 9.85/best mph 139 on 8 lbs progressing to 15 lbs boost
Went 9's when 10's was fast.

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Re: Milling Head for 2bbl

Post #22 by StarDiero75 » Wed May 01, 2019 12:24 pm

drag-200stang wrote:Looks good :thumbup:
There is plenty of sealing surface to work well, but in the pic, another bolt needs to be added on the right at about the same space or closer from the edge as the left lower bolt spot...You have a lot of sealing surface but it needs to be clamped even or it can leak. take a magic marker and draw it on the manifold and you can see what will be best for even clamping force.
Make a gasket using about 1/6'' material and dope it up both sides with permatex #3 , let it sit and soak in, let it dry some, do manifold and bolts too, not so much that it is dripping more like tacky.
Time is your friend, Wait as long as you can before putting in service...Re torque as necessary but do not over torque it.

I've seen someone do the 3 bolt thing before and I'm assuming it worked. I don't know how I'm gonna squeeze a 4th bolt hole in it, it was already tight before. I was gonna do 4 in a rectangle pattern but the original bolt hole kinda screwed up my room for that. But it won't be in service for awhile. I gotta be able to afford having the 1.50 exhaust valves put in and doing porting work in the exhaust ports.
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Last edited by StarDiero75 on Thu May 02, 2019 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200, dual friction diaphram 9" Modern Driveline clutch and billet flywheel all balanced, 1985 SVO WC T5 with front shift, 1966 2.8 Ford 8", Weber 32/26 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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Direct Mount Milling - choices

Post #23 by chad » Wed May 01, 2019 12:41 pm

different heads I imagine, can't read the casting #s.
Some R beddah den odders (by log shape that is)~
(I think it's: '60 - 68 not much, '70 - '74 not much)
That's 10 good yrs for the direct mount, no?
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Milling Head for 2bbl

Post #24 by drag-200stang » Wed May 01, 2019 12:46 pm

I have seen pic before and people do what works for them at the time , but with 20 20 we can usually always improve what has been done by their efforts.
What do you mean tight to what?
Last edited by drag-200stang on Thu May 02, 2019 9:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
66 Mustang Coupe
200 turbo w/lenco 4-spd
stock adj. rockers, stock timing set, ARP studs
best 1/4 mile ET 9.85/best mph 139 on 8 lbs progressing to 15 lbs boost
Went 9's when 10's was fast.

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Re: Milling Head for 2bbl

Post #25 by xctasy » Wed May 01, 2019 1:45 pm

Same E0 head, the 1980 - 1983 model year cars with 3.3's.

The 1980 model year Grandas or Monarchs with 4.1's.

All had that manifold vac source was changed on all E0BE-6090-BB heads.

Image


In some late 1979 cars, a boss existied where the manifold vac was to go the next year.

it was undrilled, and the casting was E0.


That boss for the brake booster was shifted to the front of the head in FoMoCo's D7 experiemental XE head of 1977.

Image

About then, Ford planned on rolling out

1. the low mount block,

2. integrated EGR all E0 heads had, and the front mounted Manifold vac.

And note how the downshift rod bracket only used on automatic 3.3's and 4.1s covers all the casting numbers.

Image


Image

Here is Shawns 1981 Mustang T4 manual E0 head...without the downshift rod bracket

Image


Image

For the dyslexic...the EO heads are all the same internally. How you drill and tap is your choice.

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Re: Milling Head for 2bbl

Post #26 by xctasy » Wed May 01, 2019 2:32 pm

D7's and D8's are the harder to 2bbl direct mount, the C7's and earlier, harder still.

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You don't need to add filler to an E0.

To a D8, filler is also likely.

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XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
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Re: Milling Head for 2bbl

Post #27 by StarDiero75 » Wed May 01, 2019 3:56 pm

drag-200stang wrote:I have seen pic before and people do what works them at the time but with 20 20 we can usually always improve what has been done by their efforts.
What do you mean tight to what?

I wasn't planning on reusing the original hole (top one on right side). In order for me to do the rectangular arrangement it woulda cut it too close to that hole. So thats why i went with the 2 and 1 setup. With plenty of permatex, flat sealing surface, gasket, and a .75" aluminum spacer on top, i think it should be plenty sealed. But this is my first rodeo so if I'm talking out my rear here please tell me so i don't waste time putting it on and not working.
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200, dual friction diaphram 9" Modern Driveline clutch and billet flywheel all balanced, 1985 SVO WC T5 with front shift, 1966 2.8 Ford 8", Weber 32/26 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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Re: Milling Head for 2bbl

Post #28 by drag-200stang » Wed May 01, 2019 5:56 pm

StarDiero75 wrote:
drag-200stang wrote:I have seen pic before and people do what works them at the time but with 20 20 we can usually always improve what has been done by their efforts.
What do you mean tight to what?

I wasn't planning on reusing the original hole (top one on right side). In order for me to do the rectangular arrangement it woulda cut it too close to that hole. So thats why i went with the 2 and 1 setup. With plenty of permatex, flat sealing surface, gasket, and a .75" aluminum spacer on top, i think it should be plenty sealed. But this is my first rodeo so if I'm talking out my rear here please tell me so i don't waste time putting it on and not working.

The problem with the centered bolt hole is it is the thinnest there and you have only a couple of threads.
I see nothing wrong with using the upper right hole ( in your pic ) But if it is to close to work I see nothing wrong with a new bolt hole straight to to right. and a new bolt hole at the lower right like the one at the lower left, the threads will be thicker there...Maybe forget the center hole..It does not have to be perfect but four bolts more even would be best.
What you have may be fine but why not improve it while you can easily do so now.
I am trying to help the future readers to help them get the best job done.
66 Mustang Coupe
200 turbo w/lenco 4-spd
stock adj. rockers, stock timing set, ARP studs
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Re: Direct Mount Milling - choices

Post #29 by gb500 » Wed May 01, 2019 7:45 pm

chad wrote:…..
Some R beddah den odders ….


Like reading a 16 year olds phonetic spelling.

Chad - your posts are so hard to read, please try - or use spellchecker

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Direct Mount

Post #30 by chad » Wed May 01, 2019 7:50 pm

The only 1 worth it to me (& plenty folks call me an a$$hole, don’t feel bad doing so ur self) is
the 2nd ½ of the 1st pic in post # 26. If U pull ahead/have machine time - Y not go 4 broke?
the others look all most as bad as member MPGs' stang log wrk (direct mount 2v).

"...use spellchecker..."
nah, dat wuz deliberate, sorry (slang'n learning disability - just use ur Delete 'button')
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Milling Head for 2bbl

Post #31 by Econoline » Wed May 01, 2019 9:43 pm

Bravo! It's awesome you got it done and did it yourself. Not to nitpick b/c it may not matter, but like others said I would have moved the adapter mounting holes on the aft side aft a bit so I could have used 2 and spread them as far apart as is practical. Also, I wouldn't recommend using rtv if you can help it, gasoline and those sealants don't mix well. Intake and carb gaskets general aren't installed with sealant b/c of that.
Last edited by Econoline on Wed May 01, 2019 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Milling Head for 2bbl

Post #32 by wsa111 » Wed May 01, 2019 9:50 pm

Without brazing up the low areas you will have to make up the difference with some adapters. Then you can contour the lower radius of the lower adapter to gain the lost area of the log. I wish you the best.
67 mustang,C-4, with mod. 80 hd, custom 500 cfm carb with annular boosters, hooker headers, dual exh.-X pipe, flowmaster mufflers, DSII dist. MSD-6al & MSD-Blaster 8252 Coil. Engine 205" .030" over with offset ground crank & 1.65 roller rockers. 9.5 comp., Isky 262 cam.
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direct mount

Post #33 by chad » Wed May 01, 2019 9:54 pm

"...contour the lower radius of the lower adapter ..."
can U say more Bill, I don't understand this offering.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Milling Head for 2bbl

Post #34 by StarDiero75 » Wed May 01, 2019 10:18 pm

Alright so i decided to add a hole but I'll do it when i finish my adapter. Since all the holes are referenced from the lone one, I'll drill the 2 on the left side in the adapter, then look at drilling 2 on the right side right through the adapter and log.

Thanks for the input guys.

I'm gonna get the small bore carb gasket and try to make the slot in the adapter plate look like that. The big bore gasket has the holes going into the sealing surface a little bit, so the small bore might just fit, or i may need to funnel the adapter ever so slightly.

I got to work on the adapter today, here's what i got. I'll be working on this again probably tuesday next week. Currently its .75" tall, would you all cut it lower than that or is that probably good?

Ryan
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--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200, dual friction diaphram 9" Modern Driveline clutch and billet flywheel all balanced, 1985 SVO WC T5 with front shift, 1966 2.8 Ford 8", Weber 32/26 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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Re: Milling Head for 2bbl

Post #35 by gb500 » Wed May 01, 2019 11:23 pm

fit rocker cover before drilling the holes -so you know you can get it past the adapter if you need to remove the rocker cover.

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Re: Milling Head for 2bbl

Post #36 by Econoline » Thu May 02, 2019 1:47 am

Check your throttle linkage situation on the carb before making it any thinner. Iirc from when I was looking at using the 2100 I needed a bit of height to clear the log.
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Re: Milling Head for 2bbl

Post #37 by StarDiero75 » Thu May 02, 2019 3:14 am

gb500 wrote:fit rocker cover before drilling the holes -so you know you can get it past the adapter if you need to remove the rocker cover.

Good idea. It looks like it will but I'll double check
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200, dual friction diaphram 9" Modern Driveline clutch and billet flywheel all balanced, 1985 SVO WC T5 with front shift, 1966 2.8 Ford 8", Weber 32/26 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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Re: Milling Head for 2bbl

Post #38 by StarDiero75 » Thu May 02, 2019 3:15 am

Econoline wrote:Check your throttle linkage situation on the carb before making it any thinner. Iirc from when I was looking at using the 2100 I needed a bit of height to clear the log.

I'm using a Lokar cable and a little bracket i fabbed. It should work. I'll measure how high the carb was sitting before and make it the same just to make sure
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200, dual friction diaphram 9" Modern Driveline clutch and billet flywheel all balanced, 1985 SVO WC T5 with front shift, 1966 2.8 Ford 8", Weber 32/26 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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Re: Milling Head for 2bbl

Post #39 by drag-200stang » Thu May 02, 2019 9:46 am

I would like to make a correction, permatex # 3 is what I was thinking about , it is thinner than #2 and brushable...#2 is a little thick for good fitting parts .
Star can you edit the quote to #3.. I like to make things as factual as I can.
Thanks....PS the adapter is coming around nice.
66 Mustang Coupe
200 turbo w/lenco 4-spd
stock adj. rockers, stock timing set, ARP studs
best 1/4 mile ET 9.85/best mph 139 on 8 lbs progressing to 15 lbs boost
Went 9's when 10's was fast.

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Re: Milling Head for 2bbl

Post #40 by StarDiero75 » Thu May 02, 2019 2:56 pm

drag-200stang wrote:I would like to make a correction, permatex # 3 is what I was thinking about , it is thinner than #2 and brushable...#2 is a little thick for good fitting parts .
Star can you edit the quote to #3.. I like to make things as factual as I can.
Thanks....PS the adapter is coming around nice.

Fixed it! Ok but like was said earlier, is using sealant a good idea around the gas?

Thanks, i spent a lot of time with a file rounding everything
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200, dual friction diaphram 9" Modern Driveline clutch and billet flywheel all balanced, 1985 SVO WC T5 with front shift, 1966 2.8 Ford 8", Weber 32/26 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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Re: Milling Head for 2bbl

Post #41 by StarDiero75 » Thu May 02, 2019 3:13 pm

Next I'll be cutting the slot for the carb bores, facing the bottom side and angling it at 3.5°. Then facing the top, drilling and counter sinking the holes for the allen screws to the head. Will update again probably Tuesday next week
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200, dual friction diaphram 9" Modern Driveline clutch and billet flywheel all balanced, 1985 SVO WC T5 with front shift, 1966 2.8 Ford 8", Weber 32/26 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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Re: Milling Head for 2bbl

Post #42 by wsa111 » Thu May 02, 2019 4:48 pm

Nice job so far. My only concern is loosing cross sectional area of the log, vs brazing the low spots & then milling at a higher point.
Anyway you do it will require spacers to get the carb higher & get as close as you can to keep the carb at the same angle as the one barrel mounting pad.
67 mustang,C-4, with mod. 80 hd, custom 500 cfm carb with annular boosters, hooker headers, dual exh.-X pipe, flowmaster mufflers, DSII dist. MSD-6al & MSD-Blaster 8252 Coil. Engine 205" .030" over with offset ground crank & 1.65 roller rockers. 9.5 comp., Isky 262 cam.
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Re: Milling Head for 2bbl

Post #43 by StarDiero75 » Thu May 02, 2019 5:00 pm

wsa111 wrote:Nice job so far. My only concern is loosing cross sectional area of the log, vs brazing the low spots & then milling at a higher point.
Anyway you do it will require spacers to get the carb higher & get as close as you can to keep the carb at the same angle as the one barrel mounting pad.

That's why I'm done milling, its probably .25 or slightly under that in my material thats left. I'll see what i can do to the adapter to make it all good. But yes i am keeping in mind the carb angle. I read it should be about 3.5°.

I am thinking of using a phenolic spacer to raise it if needed. The one at NAPA looked about .5". Currently its about .75", after decking it at an angle and facing it might go down to the high .6's. I'll keep measuring and use my original setup witb the 2 to 1 adapter as a height reference b/c that was perfect.
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200, dual friction diaphram 9" Modern Driveline clutch and billet flywheel all balanced, 1985 SVO WC T5 with front shift, 1966 2.8 Ford 8", Weber 32/26 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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Milling w/o filling for 2bbl Direct mount

Post #44 by chad » Thu May 02, 2019 5:31 pm

mill the plastic to 3* ?
(after trimmed to 1 inch)?
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Milling w/o filling for 2bbl Direct mount

Post #45 by StarDiero75 » Thu May 02, 2019 6:22 pm

chad wrote:mill the plastic to 3* ?
(after trimmed to 1 inch)?

I'm not milling the phenolic spacer. I'm going to mill the bottom of the carb adapter to the 3.5 degrees. Then everything on top of it will be sitting correctly. The phenolic will be added only if i need more lift to clear the valve cover. Otherwise it'll just be the carb and aluminum adapter
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200, dual friction diaphram 9" Modern Driveline clutch and billet flywheel all balanced, 1985 SVO WC T5 with front shift, 1966 2.8 Ford 8", Weber 32/26 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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Re: Milling Head for 2bbl

Post #46 by drag-200stang » Thu May 02, 2019 6:32 pm

StarDiero75 wrote:
drag-200stang wrote:I would like to make a correction, permatex # 3 is what I was thinking about , it is thinner than #2 and brushable...#2 is a little thick for good fitting parts .
Star can you edit the quote to #3.. I like to make things as factual as I can.
Thanks....PS the adapter is coming around nice.

Fixed it! Ok but like was said earlier, is using sealant a good idea around the gas?

Thanks, i spent a lot of time with a file rounding everything

That is what I used on my home made full sized hole in the manifold tri power adapters... It sealed with only .090 but only along the sides of the manifold at the round hole ... The full name is permatex aviation form-a-gasket #3 if you google it and look for the data sheet you can see, but a quick run down is slow drying ,non hardening, continuous use -65f to 400f. Retains effective properties in contact with gasoline, motor oil, trans fluid ethylene glycol and sea water.
Last edited by drag-200stang on Thu May 02, 2019 10:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
66 Mustang Coupe
200 turbo w/lenco 4-spd
stock adj. rockers, stock timing set, ARP studs
best 1/4 mile ET 9.85/best mph 139 on 8 lbs progressing to 15 lbs boost
Went 9's when 10's was fast.

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Milling Head for 2bb direct mount

Post #47 by chad » Thu May 02, 2019 7:16 pm

"...non hardening..."
da god stuff, ? $25 a tube, I believe?
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Milling Head for 2bbl

Post #48 by Econoline » Fri May 03, 2019 12:12 am

Is permatex #3 like gasgacinch? Or more space age? i.e. not basically rubber cement? I don't think I've used it. I know not to use RTV in the fuel path. They have all kinds of sealants and there's good measure and there's overkill. I've used gasgacinch to tack gaskets to one side or to keep them in place while I set the part or like the valve cover or oil pan and then it stays on the cover side when you take it apart. I use rtv sparsely, on wtr pump gaskets and bolts, thermostats, core plugs, at the rear main and flywheel bolts, that one head bolt and under the balancer bolt, ect. I hate cleaning off gasket sealant when I take something apart. Especially in the intake, where any good scratch or easy warp from prying could lead to a vacuum leak. How about trying to dislodge something that is glued together over that nice faying surface? Bedded well in glue. It's enough of a pita to get the gasket off where it sticks on it's own. If you have a good, flat faying surface and reasonably rigid components, the gasket will seal.
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Re: Milling Head for 2bbl

Post #49 by StarDiero75 » Fri May 03, 2019 2:25 am

For people reading, i used a 3/8 carbide end mill on a vertical mill at 500 RPM.
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200, dual friction diaphram 9" Modern Driveline clutch and billet flywheel all balanced, 1985 SVO WC T5 with front shift, 1966 2.8 Ford 8", Weber 32/26 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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Milling Head for Direct Mount (2bbl)

Post #50 by chad » Fri May 03, 2019 11:42 am

"...i used a 3/8 carbide end mill on a vertical mill at 500 RPM..."
4 lip (double end) end mill here. The 500 rpm seems slo but depends on speeds'n feeds (of course).
Some 'hand feed'. Others 'automatic table'.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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