Stuck between a rock, and a hard place.
- Thread starter mike1157
- Start date
Money isn't a guarantee; success is based on time and chance, there are some slow, weak, starving and penniless and luckless smart people around... .
But Broke a$$ is just fine, because when we peg out, everyone is broke. When you have own talent, you can create all the talent that money can. Sometimes you have friends, acquaintances and mates that stick closer than brothers to help out, but raw talent that comes from industry brings you through. A live dawg has more hope than a dead person.
I always tell myself, where do you think Henry Ford would have been if he stopped working 96 hour weeks (night shift at the factory, and day shift) to set up the final, successful part of the Ford Motor Company? It was just his continual industry which set the course for success. Or a Nelson Mandela who was deprived of justice before he became a President, or Zola Budd if she just stopped running. Or David if he'd stopped trying to protect his flocks from Lions or country from Philistines.
I love the fact that both mike1157 and xrwagon keep working, thinking, and honing their knowledge.
The results speak for themselves...
But Broke a$$ is just fine, because when we peg out, everyone is broke. When you have own talent, you can create all the talent that money can. Sometimes you have friends, acquaintances and mates that stick closer than brothers to help out, but raw talent that comes from industry brings you through. A live dawg has more hope than a dead person.
I always tell myself, where do you think Henry Ford would have been if he stopped working 96 hour weeks (night shift at the factory, and day shift) to set up the final, successful part of the Ford Motor Company? It was just his continual industry which set the course for success. Or a Nelson Mandela who was deprived of justice before he became a President, or Zola Budd if she just stopped running. Or David if he'd stopped trying to protect his flocks from Lions or country from Philistines.
I love the fact that both mike1157 and xrwagon keep working, thinking, and honing their knowledge.
The results speak for themselves...
Not really much to update, (although I expected to be able to do so). 
I have the pan on the block, and the engine and trans back in the car to test fit the pan, and fabricate the mounts for the engine and trans.Testing the pan for leaks is still yet to do, and that turns my thoughts as to how to do that by filling it w/ either mineral spirits, or water. I still gotta weld a drop sump into it(like 2"), and add an anti slosh baffle, as well as the T/C drain back, and dipstick tube fitting. The real problem w/ that is the filler strip is above the semicircles that are the front/rear timing cover/rear main seal areas. How to fill the pan to get it up high enough to ck that before it spills over those areas.
The pan is bolted to the bare block again, and is in the engine compartment attached to the 4r70w. I am in the process of trying to make the stupid trans fit (which it don't, I had to cut part of the drivers' side tunnel), and building the trans crossmember similar like I did on the red car below.
This makes sense to me, more so than why use the stock mounts and have to build a hump for the exhaust to get by.
It requires that I plate the floor from inside w/ a 6 x 8" piece of 1/8" plate and stick those two little ears down through to bolt the cross member to. I'm making the one for the the Gila Monster out of 1/8" plate as well w/ side rails to add strength while keeping it as lean as possible, but as usual, I spent several hours and have little to show for it.
The good news is that I was able to use the 200 rubber fox mount, mated to the steel 250 block mounts. ( w/ a minimum amount of.........uhhhh....cobbling.) The engine sits where I want it, but the mount pad angle is different on the k member. I had to insert 1/4" spacers at the bottom of the block mounts to force the mount pads to angle up to meet the difference.
The trans tunnel required a driver side tunnel-n-dectomy for the shift linkage and connector to adequately clear w/o the dreaded rattle and thump that would've occurred had I left it alone just jammed against the floor. The whole thing is still a day away from being done, and after yesterday,..there's no wayy in hell I'd be able to get away w/ spending another day in the garage w/o the wife b itchin' about it,...so, it'll have to wait till another day.
** edit. It occurred to me that Nobody here knows what the Gila Monster is: My project Fairmont:
and the "red car" My last project 89 fox mustang:
This was my last car, totally built be me w/ an all steel front and rear end to pay homage to a 60's theme using 89 fox notch as the platform...
In hindsight, mounting the engine and trans in the current car is kids stuff.
I have the pan on the block, and the engine and trans back in the car to test fit the pan, and fabricate the mounts for the engine and trans.Testing the pan for leaks is still yet to do, and that turns my thoughts as to how to do that by filling it w/ either mineral spirits, or water. I still gotta weld a drop sump into it(like 2"), and add an anti slosh baffle, as well as the T/C drain back, and dipstick tube fitting. The real problem w/ that is the filler strip is above the semicircles that are the front/rear timing cover/rear main seal areas. How to fill the pan to get it up high enough to ck that before it spills over those areas.
The pan is bolted to the bare block again, and is in the engine compartment attached to the 4r70w. I am in the process of trying to make the stupid trans fit (which it don't, I had to cut part of the drivers' side tunnel), and building the trans crossmember similar like I did on the red car below.
This makes sense to me, more so than why use the stock mounts and have to build a hump for the exhaust to get by.
It requires that I plate the floor from inside w/ a 6 x 8" piece of 1/8" plate and stick those two little ears down through to bolt the cross member to. I'm making the one for the the Gila Monster out of 1/8" plate as well w/ side rails to add strength while keeping it as lean as possible, but as usual, I spent several hours and have little to show for it.
The good news is that I was able to use the 200 rubber fox mount, mated to the steel 250 block mounts. ( w/ a minimum amount of.........uhhhh....cobbling.) The engine sits where I want it, but the mount pad angle is different on the k member. I had to insert 1/4" spacers at the bottom of the block mounts to force the mount pads to angle up to meet the difference.
The trans tunnel required a driver side tunnel-n-dectomy for the shift linkage and connector to adequately clear w/o the dreaded rattle and thump that would've occurred had I left it alone just jammed against the floor. The whole thing is still a day away from being done, and after yesterday,..there's no wayy in hell I'd be able to get away w/ spending another day in the garage w/o the wife b itchin' about it,...so, it'll have to wait till another day.
** edit. It occurred to me that Nobody here knows what the Gila Monster is: My project Fairmont:
and the "red car" My last project 89 fox mustang:
This was my last car, totally built be me w/ an all steel front and rear end to pay homage to a 60's theme using 89 fox notch as the platform...
In hindsight, mounting the engine and trans in the current car is kids stuff.
that sure is a great looking "Red Fox" ! 
Do you happen to have any construction pictures when you were building the front and rear?bubba22349":2620ibci said:
Well of course I do, don't be ridiculous.
http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/ ... h1.831329/
http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/ ... ch.856587/
I'll warn you, the first one is like 31 pages long, and alot of the good pics are missing. The second one is a consolidated collection of pics, but tells nothing of what it took to do what I did. If you got a couple of hours...........it's all yours.
And thanks,....The car ended up being pretty polarizing,.....you either love it or hate it. It did make the 06/12 issues of 5.0 though.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... 3115,d.eW0
LOL well you got some serious metal working skills! :wow: Yeah I would say the engine swap fab is not a problem for you. 
Yeah I would say the engine swap fab is not a problem for you.
I really like your stuff. I'm thinking the Gila Monster is also found in Aussie, as a poor mans XD Falcon
http://www.xfalcon.com/forums/index.php ... d-cortina/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ic38oRfy ... r_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... W5y9m_mmpo
Mad Mike, meet Cyco Jason, and his little yellow and black contraption. Of interest is how you can fit a 250 under the low radiator of a Fox.
He also runs a roller cam Like I plan to use on my engines. 256@50 584liit exh. 265@50 607lift 107split
http://www.xfalcon.com/forums/index.php ... low-story/
I can't wait to see how it goes turbo'd...you've seen this no doubt?
His specs before he sold it to current owner George L
https://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8404
https://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php ... 52#p518852
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgWROF-NuEM
http://www.xfalcon.com/forums/index.php ... d-cortina/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ic38oRfy ... r_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... W5y9m_mmpo
Mad Mike, meet Cyco Jason, and his little yellow and black contraption. Of interest is how you can fit a 250 under the low radiator of a Fox.
He also runs a roller cam Like I plan to use on my engines. 256@50 584liit exh. 265@50 607lift 107split
http://www.xfalcon.com/forums/index.php ... low-story/
I can't wait to see how it goes turbo'd...you've seen this no doubt?
His specs before he sold it to current owner George L
https://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8404
https://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php ... 52#p518852
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgWROF-NuEM
xctasy":7oc1j01v said:
That's great stuff, good information. Thanks. It would have to be a Gila Monster that was shipped to Austrailia,....The lizards are Native to the S.W. U.S., Specifically, one particular area in Arizona. And........ they are ugly. ( Like my current Fairmont) I nicknamed my car that because that's where i had to go to find one that was clean and rust free.
I have faith that I can change that though,......Fairmonts are my favorite fox, and I've had 6 of them since 1988.
(This was #2 in 1990, sporting a roller cammed 357/C-4/9")
The roller cam thing is becoming an obsession w/ me,.....I'm really worried about hurting the flat tappet solid I'm contemplating buying from Crow during break-in. (or anytime after that for that matter)
Can a roller be had for a U.S. 250? It doesn't look like it can, head bolt bosses look to be in the way of the link bar. Who would make one if they did?
Maybe I'm just being paranoid, I've had several solid lifter camshafts make it through the break-in ordeal w/ no negative outcome, But it's the two hydraulic flat tappet cam failures at break in that haunt me.
I cannot afford to hurt this engine due to it's somewhat relative rarity,.(Not to mention that after the sleeving process, and all the junk I gotta do to make the xflow head fit, I'll have a buttload in just a bare block.) Not having to worry about the camshaft contributing to that would ease my mind.
It is what it is though, there is a budget w/ this build. If I could buy a billet solid roller like I could for a SBF from Chet Herbert for 200.00....I'd have one.....Somehow, I'm thinking one for the 250 (if it's even made) would be a little more than that. :roll:
xrwagon
Well-known member
Jason Stoodley’s Cortina i have seen race a few times, i know of two other aspirated crossflows running quicker, like 11.14 quicker, and 11.4 in a heavier sedan. Another Ford Forums guy i talk to Mex has a white XF ute, mini tubbed and triangulated rear, 31 spline borgwarner with 4.11’s and full spool, he has a brand new crossflow motor, the specs are wet dream type stuff and runs a mech roller cam and triple 50mm webers. Not sure of power or times yet as he is painting and tinning out the rear tray still. Has a start up vid though.
Magic stuff, those passes. I'm not discrediting any of that in a heavier car with safety equipemnt, a lot of guys now have to run roll cages, and its hard to go less than 2000 pounds on a Cortina, or less than 2500 on an XD. In ultimate terms, it's not so fast. In the sub 11's it cage fighting territory, and that usually demarks the street and strip car limit.
http://www.harrop.com.au/history.php
The Red Back Spider inspired this one, I'll bet!
From April 1968 to the just before the 1000 ft track limit of 1973, Victorian Ron Harrop ended up doing 11.82's at 118 mph in a 208 cube 1955 FJ holden. He was then and is still today an ace machinist, and like all good racers, cheated a fair bit. It started of with 13.63's with a 179, then 186 with 220 hp, then 285 hp 208 with his own stroker crank. It was doing 11.97s in May 1971 with 327 hp in that 1800 pound package, still with 2" SU Triples and, if I'm not mistaken, after the custom Frank Duggan/ Ian McCredie Injection, that 11.82. It started off 3 speed manual, then ended up with a "Clutch-Flyte" pushbutton Mopar Torque Flite auto, started with a limited slip 3.9:1 diff, ended up with a 54 Chev axle and nice and nice fats.
What I like, is how he did it all with just a better damper, steel flywheel, fully counterweighted crank, something like a 560 lift cam with over 312 degrees duration, and roller rockers with a 130 thou shaved head and close to stock XU1 Torana valve sizes (1.625" in, 1.425" ex). And that was done on an engine with flat tappet solid lifter engine and a butt ugly 12 port version of a 9 port head.
http://www.harrop.com.au/gallery.php?g=2#
Today, I look at the non cross flow block and say, it just needs a set of 12 Ford SB lifters with a grove and a well tempered compact wire retianer to get a roller cam working one of those blocks. But the price won't be Chet Albert.Changing the cam lobe positions on the cam is not a big thing when the cam is custom made anyway
http://www.harrop.com.au/history.php
The Red Back Spider inspired this one, I'll bet!
From April 1968 to the just before the 1000 ft track limit of 1973, Victorian Ron Harrop ended up doing 11.82's at 118 mph in a 208 cube 1955 FJ holden. He was then and is still today an ace machinist, and like all good racers, cheated a fair bit. It started of with 13.63's with a 179, then 186 with 220 hp, then 285 hp 208 with his own stroker crank. It was doing 11.97s in May 1971 with 327 hp in that 1800 pound package, still with 2" SU Triples and, if I'm not mistaken, after the custom Frank Duggan/ Ian McCredie Injection, that 11.82. It started off 3 speed manual, then ended up with a "Clutch-Flyte" pushbutton Mopar Torque Flite auto, started with a limited slip 3.9:1 diff, ended up with a 54 Chev axle and nice and nice fats.
What I like, is how he did it all with just a better damper, steel flywheel, fully counterweighted crank, something like a 560 lift cam with over 312 degrees duration, and roller rockers with a 130 thou shaved head and close to stock XU1 Torana valve sizes (1.625" in, 1.425" ex). And that was done on an engine with flat tappet solid lifter engine and a butt ugly 12 port version of a 9 port head.
http://www.harrop.com.au/gallery.php?g=2#
Today, I look at the non cross flow block and say, it just needs a set of 12 Ford SB lifters with a grove and a well tempered compact wire retianer to get a roller cam working one of those blocks. But the price won't be Chet Albert.Changing the cam lobe positions on the cam is not a big thing when the cam is custom made anyway
Love this thread! Lots of deja vu going on here for me!
I really like the idea of another crossflow hybrid. Gets you the US block with a good Aussie head. Lots of work, though, and I never really got all the oil seepage under control on mine.
The Oz block has a larger opening to be able to get a roller lifter installed. Even after opening the pushrod passage it's going to be tight. You can use a roller Oz cam in the US block if you'd rather not custom grind a billet.
I really like the idea of another crossflow hybrid. Gets you the US block with a good Aussie head. Lots of work, though, and I never really got all the oil seepage under control on mine.
The Oz block has a larger opening to be able to get a roller lifter installed. Even after opening the pushrod passage it's going to be tight. You can use a roller Oz cam in the US block if you'd rather not custom grind a billet.
MustangSix":2r5kt5pw said:
I figured out how to install the roller lifters,.By drilling (w/ a 2" hole saw) access holes right above the lifter galley to allow me to get my fingers in there and "attach" the link bar. The hole "cores" that are left after the hole cutting process can be used to plug the holes so they wont leak. (I'd either take them to my machinist, and have him machine a groove in the plug to support an o-ring, or I'd just use a bead of silicone to do the same.....maybe even machine the holes perfectly to accept a freeze plug?) It appears that the link bar will just sneak between the water passage riser, the side of the block w/ maybe a minimum of clearancing through my proposed access hole.
I looks like Wade makes a cross flow roller cam (maybe) but their web site is terrible, and I can't figure out how to get it to work to confirm that. Maybe somebody else can get it to work to confirm?
Be nice to have a price as well.
xrwagon
Well-known member
Tighe cams are the only ones that sell semi finished crossflow rollers, i know of a couple of guys using them, i know one guy i talk to had a few problems with Tighe but the camshafts are good, he had either clive or Wade finish the cam. Camtech did the final machining of his cam, he is running Comp Cams solid roller lifters, can give more info if needed, his last solid cammed crossflow had a in his words below
Any way Phill @ Surecam has came up with a new profile that should make the most of the crossflow design and is a high steel content billet.It has 650th lift,Inlet has 274 duration @50th exhaust has 284 @50th on 106 lobe sep.That is the baddest cam I have used in a Clevo or x-flow so I am pretty excited to see how it will go with so much lift and duration.It is ground flatter with a slower ramp rate and based on a wider ford pattern lifter so I have to run Comp EDM lifters and the valve lash will tight at around 10-12th on both.
That is his last solid cam, he now runs a full mech roller with triple 50mm webbers
Any way Phill @ Surecam has came up with a new profile that should make the most of the crossflow design and is a high steel content billet.It has 650th lift,Inlet has 274 duration @50th exhaust has 284 @50th on 106 lobe sep.That is the baddest cam I have used in a Clevo or x-flow so I am pretty excited to see how it will go with so much lift and duration.It is ground flatter with a slower ramp rate and based on a wider ford pattern lifter so I have to run Comp EDM lifters and the valve lash will tight at around 10-12th on both.
That is his last solid cam, he now runs a full mech roller with triple 50mm webbers
It's no problem getting a roller rocker cam in any form, X-flow or non cross flow.
I'd strongly suggest you look at the ones that can be gotten through Kelford. Mine are suitable for turbo, and are really a K code/E303 cheeter cam. It's a specific grind to pass emissions, as unlike 5.0's, you can't prove a post 1975 3.3 or 4.1 in an X shell, Bronco, F100 or Fox will pass any Aussie or US or US California 1975 to 1983 standard emission test. Enough work has been done, and the EO and CARB requirements can be applied to make the 5.0 eclipse a 3.3 or 4.1. But a 3.3 or 4.1 can with ease out decimate the 350 to 500 horsepower potential of a 5.0 or 347 if a turbo orblower is added, but the most draconian states in Australia and the USA make an aluminum headed 3.3 or 4.1 a gross poluter unless its on propane. Its that inequity that made me push for a non cross-flow roller cam with the non cross flow head, in a later 1976 to 1992 X-flow block.
The 291 cam that George C used in his TD x-flow Cortina 250 is the right option for making in roller form for the right turbo.
You'd cover off the cost by talking with Mike at Classic Inlines and having a set kit trialled in your 250. X-flow or log or non cross flow or Classic inlines is a non issue, a roller cam is a device that can put a 250 into the 7500 rpm bracket without breaking the long pushrods or taking out the rocker fallcrums.
The American industry has had roller cams suppied to the USA by Crow cam since 1990 for a certain Texan called JD who trailed one in his econo rail. Lynx Corporation and Crow cams did the work back then, but the inline six market for small 144-250 Ford sixes is a very fickle one, with many wanting to go fast, but few wanting to pay the price. There is no risk of ruining a block if oil pump isn't overloaded and you use an EDIS ignition system and a roller cam. You can lean on it reall hard.
I don't want to add another bump in the road map to sucess, but a roller cam is a self funder, and he who pays will also be able to certify a 250 turbo cross flow for us on any engine.
I'd strongly suggest you look at the ones that can be gotten through Kelford. Mine are suitable for turbo, and are really a K code/E303 cheeter cam. It's a specific grind to pass emissions, as unlike 5.0's, you can't prove a post 1975 3.3 or 4.1 in an X shell, Bronco, F100 or Fox will pass any Aussie or US or US California 1975 to 1983 standard emission test. Enough work has been done, and the EO and CARB requirements can be applied to make the 5.0 eclipse a 3.3 or 4.1. But a 3.3 or 4.1 can with ease out decimate the 350 to 500 horsepower potential of a 5.0 or 347 if a turbo orblower is added, but the most draconian states in Australia and the USA make an aluminum headed 3.3 or 4.1 a gross poluter unless its on propane. Its that inequity that made me push for a non cross-flow roller cam with the non cross flow head, in a later 1976 to 1992 X-flow block.
The 291 cam that George C used in his TD x-flow Cortina 250 is the right option for making in roller form for the right turbo.
You'd cover off the cost by talking with Mike at Classic Inlines and having a set kit trialled in your 250. X-flow or log or non cross flow or Classic inlines is a non issue, a roller cam is a device that can put a 250 into the 7500 rpm bracket without breaking the long pushrods or taking out the rocker fallcrums.
The American industry has had roller cams suppied to the USA by Crow cam since 1990 for a certain Texan called JD who trailed one in his econo rail. Lynx Corporation and Crow cams did the work back then, but the inline six market for small 144-250 Ford sixes is a very fickle one, with many wanting to go fast, but few wanting to pay the price. There is no risk of ruining a block if oil pump isn't overloaded and you use an EDIS ignition system and a roller cam. You can lean on it reall hard.
I don't want to add another bump in the road map to sucess, but a roller cam is a self funder, and he who pays will also be able to certify a 250 turbo cross flow for us on any engine.
