200 i6 Rear Main Seal Problem Removing

[candyapple66]

Hi all-
I recently tried to remove the rear main seal with the engine in the car. It is the original rope seal. I tried using the chinese finger type remover on the top part of the seal that is in the block and pulling it out with the spiral tool that they give you. Needless to say i only ripped a little chunk out of that one side. So the rest is still tight inside the block.

Should I take the engine completely out, put it on a stand, remove all the main bearing caps and see if the crank can drop down. Will the crank even drop down at all? Can this be accomplished without removing the timing chain and all the bells and whistles? Im going to put a modern rubber seal in instead because that rope seal looks like a pain to install. I will remove the pin in the bottom cap that is there for the rope seal.

Id prefer to not have to tear the whole bottom end apart, I want to make this as minimal an effort as possible because the engine has 107K miles on it and everything is really top shape and I just had the head completely rebuilt.

Thanks

Hope to hear from someone who "knows" or has done this type of seal before.

 

[Econoline]

We recently did this on a Ford Lehman big deisel 6 in a small yacht. It can be done, but really, it's easier to pull the motor if possible. The crank will drop but it's a luck game putting the seal in and you can't look at or clean the seal groove above the crank. We went the other way, rubber back to rope. The rubber may be easier to feed around the crank b/c it's so rigid.

 

[candyapple66]

So do you guys think that by removing the main bearings the crank drop low enough to get the old seal out and the new seal in? Do i have to remove the piston rods from the crank also?

The bottom seal was pretty squished into a formed shape so i doubt the top seal will leave remnants of rope unless I have to rip it out to get it out.

Yes im probably just going to just remove the engine from the car and put it on a stand. Im not sure if the 200 is different than the Lehman because I believe I have 7 main bearings on the 1966 i6 200.

Im just making sure that it is possible to just drop the crank down a lil bit, before I run into another headache of taking the crank completely out and reseting all the specs for it to run properly.

I dont want to mess up the timing chain and cam shaft timing if I let the crank drop down.

Any helpful words are appreciated------

P.S. I have both the rubber seal and a new rope seal but man o man the new rope seal look too thick to squish into that gap lol

 

[bubba22349]

Yes you can replace the seal in the car. First it depends on the transmission your car has, for a stick type you will need to remove the trans maybe also the flywheel unless it can drop down with the crank. For an Auto depending on which one it is you may need to remove it, for some you can just remove the dust cover, unbolt the torque converter and push it back towards the front pump so the flex plate can move down with the crank. You will need to remove the rear main cap and loosen up the other mains too so that the crank can drop down a little about 1/8 to 1/4 inch should be good. You don't need to touch the rods you may need to use a bar near rear of crank to lightly pry down the crank enough to get the old seal out. The "Chinesse Finger" tool is used to pull a new rope seal into place, if the kit has a rod with a pointed corse thread its the tool used to pull out the old seal other then that you can use a small screw driver or punch to push or pry it out of the blocks grove. Good luck

 

[timdog]

I recently did this on my Mustang with an automatic transmission. I did it with the engine/tranny in the car and on jackstands.

As you found, half of the original rope seal came out with the cap, half was left in the block.

I was lucky enough to be able to push it up and over the crank using a piece of electrical wiring from a recent house project (12 gauge). I split the outher jacket and used one of the three solid conductors. I kept the insulation on, and carefully taped the end with electrical tape so that it would not scratch the crank. Then I carefully pushed up on the end of the end of the rope while rotating the crank in the same direction using a wrench. I found that this thicker wire was strong enough push well but not buckle. It was soft enough to bend as it went up and over the crank. I only needed to get it broken loose from the block and was then able to pull it out by hand.

I had a much harder time getting the two piece seal BACK into the block. When I put it in, I found that the groove in the block was a bit tight and the seal kept getting caught on the sharp edge as it went in. It kept digging into the seal and tearing off the outside edge. Using a jewlers file, I VERY LIGHTLY radiused the block to provide a lead in... I suggest you consider doing the same. Just be careful not to damage the sealing surface of the crank.

Good luck... you can do it, just don't get frustrated.

 

[rbohm]

i am not surprised you are having issues getting the old rope seal out. they tend to stick somewhat, and most of them if they havent been removed before have a small pin in the upper cradle that makes getting the old one out, and the new one in. at least that is the case with early V8s. the newer rubber seal is much easier to remove and replace in the car, though that little locating pin has to be removed if it is still there.

 

[candyapple66]

I have the original C4 automatic so Im not sure how it would work with that tranny. But it seems that the old seal doesnt want to budge much and I had the car on a car lift in the air and it was a pain. I can only imagine trying to do it under the car on jackstands. I will probably pull the engine because the engine crossmember needed to be removed and the front sway bar needed to be loosened JUST to get the freaking oil pan off the engine. Going from the bottom was a pain.

Now that the car is back home and not on the lift im probably just going to try removing the engine and loosening the crank while the engine is attached to an engine stand.

>>>>Is it a pain in the to remove the engine,,,,,right now there are no fluids in the engine,,, no coolant -no oil -no trans fluid -no radiator in the car. No cables hooked up except the fuel line.
SO basically all that would need to be removed is probably the starter, and the bolts that hold the engine into the car and to the transmission. Other than that I should be able to pull it out of the car easily. I need to replace the engine mount 'pads' anyways

Where is the best place to attach the engine lift chains to the motor???????????

Thanks for all your help guys and gals

Candyapple

 

[candyapple66]

P.S. I just need to know how to attach the 'engine leveler' chains to the engine,, so I can hoist it out with my engine lift. Someone told me to use the head bolts one on each corner of the head front and back?

Im just gonna pull 'er out of the car and work on that seal on a stand by dropping the crank down a lil bit....

Thanks

 

[candyapple66]

Engine is on the engine stand

Is there anything I need to remember before loosening all the bearing caps and letting the crank drop down a bit?

Cap 3 is the Thrust bearing.......do I need to do anything special when I tighten all the bearings down after I do the seal?

 

[rbohm]

Engine is on the engine stand

Is there anything I need to remember before loosening all the bearing caps and letting the crank drop down a bit?

Cap 3 is the Thrust bearing.......do I need to do anything special when I tighten all the bearings down after I do the seal?

yes, dont bother just dropping the crank a little since you have the engine on the stand. just yank the crank so you have plenty of room.

 

[Econoline]

I agree, and you may as well change the timing chain or set while you're at it if need be. Be sure and line up the timing marks and sharpie or scribe some lines before you pull the sprockets. Good chance to check out your rod and main bearings to.