Adding to the Aluminum Excitement...

CHALLENGE to Sp Aluminum, Inliner and Southern Cross:

If you guys could come up with a super deal, I will do the testing of the head on a stock 200.

I'll pay for the engine overhaul and dyno testing, and do the build ups and tear downs.

PM me if you are willing to work out some details.

I am willing to try a few combos, including stock cam versus FSPP 264*/264* (214*/214* @ .050") cam I just ordered, and a few carb and exhaust combos.
 
Asa – I agree with you here - I wouldn’t buy without seeing numbers either. As for us selling heads prior to publishing our own numbers – our buyers decided to take that risk themselves. What's wrong with that? We wanted to wait also, but the simple fact is that it may still be a long wait. I haven’t had the time or the money to deal with this project. You seem to be very concerned about the “businessâ€￾ side of our presentation regarding the information on the heads – especially when you aren’t even considering one. I know you couldn’t care less about my excuses, but truth be told, this project has been on the back burner since April. I have a lot of work to do and show to back up the claims I made. I don’t need that pointed out to me. I’m sorry if my tardiness rubs you the wrong way, but I haven’t exactly been pushing these heads on people since then. Everyone who has one, came to us in person.
 
Like John said,

P.S.: Linc, thanks for your offer. I personally think we have that covered, but it might be different. Im in no position of answering your proposal, simply because Im not in charge of funds and pricing.
 
I'd like to toss in a few comments. First, as a compeditor of SCP, I'm happy you guys want to see real numbers. But I also see their side of all this. It takes a lot of hard cash and time to do all the things you guys ask. Considering John just graduated and recently married (with all the assoc expense), this is a bit much for him to handle in such a short time. Yes, he stated he woulld have this all done by now, but it is very easy to under estimate what is required. Especially in all the excitement.

I have been working on my head for nearly a year, and it's still in the design stage. Unfortunately the guy doing the work is in high demand because of his expertise, so we have to wait until his schedule allows. But we are nearing that point and things will move quickly once the design phase is accomplished.

All I'm trying to say here, is give them a break and the time needed to provide what you ask. I'm sure they will.

To ask that the aluminum head be tested on a stock 200 is a bit unrealalistic. A stock cam will never allow the motor to take full advantage of the additional breathing capabilities. But to post numbers of an all out build is equally unrealistic. I think the best comparison would be accomplished on a common build up. Build a 200 short block with the normal upgrades (ARP bits, cam, balance job, DSII, etc), then dyno it with the varrious heads. Say a log with a 2v adaptor, a dircect mount 2v, the cast argie and oz heads, and then the aluminum heads.

This is exactly what we are in the process of doing. We have been doing a lot of testing on three different setups. One mildly built 200ci, one hipo 200ci, and one all out 250ci. Testing the log head, stock OZ2V, and highly modified OZ head, in various combinations of blocks and heads. Once our aluminum head is done, it will be added into the mix as well. Thus we will be able to provide all the numbers you guys are seeking. It would be easy to add in the Argie aluminum head if SCP is willing. This would save them the expense of doing all the other comparrisons and could happen in a realitively short time. Sort of like our own version of Engine Masters. ;)

To keep this on equal sides, the dyno's could be done at a shop with unbias opinions and operators. I'm sure there are several in the LA area that are capable of providing this service.
 
It won't be long, and I think Will, (does10's) Kelly and I need to get together for some friendly "King of the Hill" racing!

Sounds good to me!

BTW I predict with an good cyl. head, Kelly's 250 will reach 400hp at the tires in standard, daily driver type street trim. (Cast everything, FSPP 272s cam)
According to my calculations that would be a 11.10 in the quarter.
Later,
Will
 
I am not brave enough to keep cast pistons for too much longer. Melting one a bit is one thing, but having one come apart from too much stress and grenading the whole engine is another thing.

Since you are 25% larger cubes than me, do I get a 25% head start??? ;)
 
I thought maybe I would go ahead and buy one since they said they are already selling them. I sent a PM to get a solid price and have not had a reply. I tryed to log on to their website and all I get is access forbiden. Did we make somebody mad?

If you are gonna make promises you keep them!
If something prevents you from keeping them, you should comunicate with your potential customers. We all know what it's like to have life throw you a curve ball.

I have realistic expextations from these heads. A completely stock engine with a one barrel carb should feel like it doubled in HP just from two barrel carb, better breathing head and headers.
A two barrel conversion with headers and stock cam prob will not get as much gain since it already has slightly better breathing.
An engine that has been modified to the point where the log head is a serious restriction should see a huge gain.
An aluminum head will need at least one full point more compression in either case due to heat dissapation or you might actualy might lose power. I have seen many Chevy engines actualy slow down when switching from iron bowties to aluminum bowties with compairable flow numbers.
 
not trying to start anything but I had also emailed them maybe 2 months ago and never got a reply... I then just decided to wait for Mikes head to be finished, I have a bunch of money saved and am waiting for the right parts to start building but I decided to just start a small block buildup in another car (yes... I know) so I will be able to take full potential of an aluminum head. Tommy
 
I definitely think that some kind of a comparison to the baseline needs to be established before I would consider buying. Last time I posted this opinion someone replied to me that a stock I6-200 has a pretty well established power and torque output and they were right.

What I mean is more that the engine that this head is being tested on definitely has more non-stock components than my engine has. I would like to see a comparison with the stock head and the new head on the same engine that shares whatever non-stock components exist; cam, pistons, carb, distributor or whatever. AND I would like to see full disclosure of what the combination of parts is that is producing the HP you advertise.

I also really would like to see, but doubt that I will, the numbers that this head produces on a fairly stock engine. Maybe an upgraded 2 bbl carb would be ok cause that seems pretty simple to do and like something I am interested in doing but I would like to see a stock cam used cause I have a stock cam.

Quite honestly I am not too interested in HP. I am very interested in economy and if this head can increase my fuel economy and give me good power at 80 mph for when I am driving on the highway I would be much more likely to buy. So I would like to see economy numbers too if possible.

Thanks for listening.

-Dan in Atlanta
 
Firstly thumbs up to all involved with these heads.
I think im interested, but im confused after reading all that :oops:
I like the idea of these heads cos im chasing low 12's in a street reg'd car with out a hairdryer but its gonna cost my a house to get one and ship it to Aus :cry:
But its uniqueness i desire :eek:
Maybe some others Aussies will be interested in Mikes Alloy head and we can all hold hands to the end of the 1/4 mile victory line ;)
Thanks Steve
 
The NASTY stuff first.

I'm currently up to my arms in it just doing a transmission swap, and providing evidence of the ability to use an AOD safely behind a 4.1 X-flow.

I am way behind. I've then got some work to do on a turbo header.

The truth of the matter is we all miss deadlines, and if we do it constantly, we loose trust. One non deliver is serious, and more produces grounds for serious doubt.

In my case, I have 325 US dollars that says someone in America trusts me, and they haven't seen their product yet. And until I do what I've said, I can't take on any more promises.

So be aware, when you say yes to doing something, and you don't do it someone will take you to account. :oops:

:D On a concilatory note, I have a 1988 book by David Vizard. His Pinto with a 3.45:1 axle, and stock C4 and 2.0 engine gave 69 rear wheel hp with stock head, 2-bbl Holley Weber 5200, It recieved a new cam, headers, race preped cylinder head, better exhast and a special side draft Dell Ortro 45 mm carb on a Lynx manifold.

Result was twice the rear wheel hp, (now over 140 hp) reduced emissions, and better overall and part throttle fuel economy. Sure, the early Pintos were poorly matched gas guzzlers, but still, twice the power with just a head, mainifold, carb, cam and exhast changes.

I simply can't think of a better engine to get twice the power out of than the stock 200 six with less than 70 hp at the rear wheels.


With just a crossflow head, a stock Aussie 2.2 2-bbl sees 95 rwhp at the bags, a 36% improvement on any stock US 200. Mustang Geezer's should be double or more with a largely stock block.

The level of power a Stock Aussie 3.3 has was either matched or exceeded by 80Stang in his Gen II Log engine. Mraley, Kastang, Mustangaroo (before boost) and others have between 50 and 100% more powers there 2V's, still in conservative stateS of tune.

I'm a beliver, but the proof of the pudding is being able to eat it. A stock 200 is one othe most undercammed, undercarbed, and lowly deveoped engine in the breathing department of all engines. Unless a new cam is added, a wild head, carb and exhast won't amount to much more than a 60% power boost. With a cam, head, intkae exhast, a stock engine block will go well over the 180 hp mark with ease, which would be 2.5 times the orginal. Holden 202 sixes in Australia do 245 flywheel hp with largely stock blocks which put out less than95 hp in stock 1-bbl form. Yes, they have tripple carbs or 4-bbl 465 Holleys, but they do it!

Deano
 
If you guys are having trouble e-mailing Southern Cross Perf, send the PM's to Inliner or SP Aluminium.

They always answer back quickly.
 
Stubby":2gp3mhr4 said:
I thought maybe I would go ahead and buy one since they said they are already selling them. I sent a PM to get a solid price and have not had a reply. I tryed to log on to their website and all I get is access forbiden.

We've stated the price in previous posts, it's $1550 plus shipping for the package which includes an aluminum cylinder head, intake and exhaust headers. The website is being redesigned.
 
AzCoupe":1da25boi said:
... It would be easy to add in the Argie aluminum head if SCP is willing. This would save them the expense of doing all the other comparrisons and could happen in a realitively short time. Sort of like our own version of Engine Masters. ;)

To keep this on equal sides, the dyno's could be done at a shop with unbias opinions and operators. I'm sure there are several in the LA area that are capable of providing this service.

I'm intrigued, what's the plan? I'll hand carry one of our heads over to your shop and they can dyno the SCP head after they dyno your aluminum head.
 
the package which includes an aluminum cylinder head, intake and exhaust headers. The website is being redesigned

Have I missed a previous post showing what the intake configuration and the header configuration? What type of carbs will it take with the intake?
What exhaust header configuration are you looking at? Is there any fitment problems with regards to starter location etc?
Doug
 
66 Fastback 200":23pds3ch said:
the header configuration? What type of carbs will it take with the intake?
What exhaust header configuration are you looking at? Is there any fitment problems with regards to starter location etc?

Doug, read Inliner's post on the first page, about 1/3 the way down.
 
Today at school my instructor was saying that when companies first started putting aluminium heads on cast iron block they would have a lot of problem with blown head gaskets and getting the heads to stay sealed on the block. He said that you have to use a special kind of head bolt that actually stretches with the head when the head expands because aluminium expands a lot. Any thoughts on this idea?
 
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