At wits end...

[cfmustang]

I didn't think that jet holder was supposed to be adjustable either. However, when it is all the way in the engine will not run without the gas pedel depressed at ALL times. The minute I lossened it up about a turn, the idle completely smoothed out. It hasm't ran that good in years.

Even when it is out 1 turn, there is still tension on it

You were right about the blue arrow, it is actually behind the choke assembly. There was no way to get everything in the picture.

The lean idle mixture is supposed to be somewhere between 2 to 1/2 turns out (or something like that, I would have to dig up the documentation). Any more or less and they suggest rejetting.

I will play with it more and try what you suggest about tightening the holder and loosening the mixture screw, but I had it that way earlier. I had the adjustment all the way out and it would not idle. We'll see.

 

[pedal2themetal45]

HI CF
On the mixture screw a little goes a long way. when you had it all the way out it was too much. I would go a 1/4 turn at a time. A lot of differance can be made with even just a 1/8 of a turn on this fine adjustments screw. Like I said every car is different and well take a different adjustment. Just cause the instruction say anymore than 2 to 2 1/2 turns it should be re jetted dosen't mean so. (not trying to be smart but ) I think most of lthe people on this board or any body that does carbs well tell ya that the mixture screw is for fine tunning the carb for the spificic applacation. The instruction doesn't know anything about your motor, what cam your running, what kind of internal parts your running, all that plays a part in the fine adjustments of the carb and what the motor wants. Just remember a little goes a long way with the idle mixture screw I would start with a 1/4 turn out more than what the instruction say at a time and go from their. Eather in/out depending on what it needs for fine adjustments. even the 2 turns out may be too much but I don't think so. You just have to play with it remember a little goes a long way.
hope this helps
Tim

 

[cfmustang]

Well, I'm stumped.

I tried what you said and still could not tighten up the jet holder without IMMEDIATELY stalling the engine. One correction, the jst holder is a bit less than 1/4 turn out from sealed. Any losser and the engine starts to stumble badly any tighter and it stalls instantly.

I set the idle mixture screw (as Weber suggests is the first thing to set) and started backing it out a quarter of a turn at a time. I was pretty much able to loosen it several turns without any noticable difference in engine idle. Each time along the way, tightening the jet holder stalls the engine.

I may need to call Weber on this one...

Also, I noticed something for the first time last night. It was a little dark in the garage when I first started the engine to let it warm up. When it was about ready for the choke to disengage, I noticed at the spots on the header (older clifford header, before they jetthot coated them) where the paint has flaked off that the header was starting to glow a bit red head the head. Is that normal? Are exhaust gasses normally that hot?

-Chris

 

[pedal2themetal45]

Boy Chris
This is a head scratcher???
The only other thing I can think of is maybe its (the mixture screw ) is already to far out. You might try turning it in in stead of out. Just a thought. One other thing what did the machanic do to the car maybe it something tied to that? and check if the float maybe to high, look in the carb see if their is gas driping in when it dies or if there is a noticable vapor cloud, That would be a sign of to high of a float. (I'm kind of grabing at straws now). If that don't work then I guess you'll have to call Weber? Oh also if you screw the mixture screw all the way in the motor should die if it don't then theirs a vacuum leak.

Good luck
Tim

 

[cfmustang]

When I set it to the factory setting (2 turns out, I believe - I don't have the instructions on me at work) and turn it in it will start to stumble after about 1 turn.

I have also spayed every inch of the carb and ever vac line I have and have not found a vacuum leak.

Friday night I set the carb the bet I could and Saturday, I set the timing. Then I actually took it out for an extened drive. It is weird. The first 1/8 to 1/4 of the pedel, acceleration is ok (still not what I would expect, though). After that, the next qaurter of accelerator pedel travel provides virtual no chage in acceleration it is as though I am not moving the pedel. After that, the carberator completely bogs and I severely lose power for another 1/8 of the pedel travel. The last bit (almost floored) the c-4 kicksdown and makes a lot of noise with very little extra acceleration.

Any ideas?

I have initial timing at about 14 degrees.

 

[Anonymous]

thats when I bring it to a professional

it would have become un-fun and frustrating

 

[Anonymous]

i wish you luck. may the car gods bless you. i wont even try to quess at your problems just listed. but in regards to your carb (and im just quessing) you might want to make sure that all the passages are clean. the idel and mix screws are plumbed into internal passages. any way you know what the inside of a carb looks like maybee there could be a little piece of trash in there messing up the works. i work on small engines all the time and this is a comon problem with them. a piece of safety wire goes a long way. just take the srews out completly and run the wire in and out im not famillar with you carb but don't most end up in the barrels. please somebody correct me if i've go off the deep end with this. any way you know what i mean, i hope. good luck

 

[pedal2themetal45]

HI CHIRS
I may be wrong but sounds like to much timming now I think 14 is too much. I don't know for sure what it is supost to be but you might try moveing it back a couple of deg. like 12 and maybe 10 to see if it helps.
tim

 

[Anonymous]

Chris,

Which distributor are you using?

DB

 

[cfmustang]

I actually had it at 12 degrees for a while with virtually no difference. When I had it at about 15 - 16 degrees, it was starting to ping. 14 degrees seems about right. It is as high as I can go without pinging.

As for the distributor itself, I am pretty sure it is the 1966 Load-a-matic. I never changed it , but I am not the original owner.

I know, I know...I need the 1968 - 1972 dizzy with vac and mech advance... I am thinking about ordering one from Advance autoparts this week ($37).

Is one year better than another? Can I use my points, rotor, condenser and cap from my 66? They all only have about 100 miles on them.

 

[pedal2themetal45]

HI CHRIS
Load a matic dizzy may be the prob now.. doesn't it have 2 vacuum lines (I'm not farmiler with it) but if it does maybe their hooked up wrong. with .60 off the head, the cam and that carb that dizzy might not work right. I'm not sure which year dizzy would be better but I would think the newer one and just dump the points and get an electronic one verry easy to change and you'll get a better spark.. and no more points to ware out.

Tim

 

[cfmustang]

I thought the Load-a-matic's problem was it was designed to work with the Autolite 1100 and some weird vac setup associated with that carb. There is a sticky about it at the top of the posts. A different carb does not generate enough vacuum for it at high speed so it does not advance at high throtle (or something like that).

It only has one vac port though...

As for the going electronic, I was going to use pertronix. No real reason other than it seems a lot easier to set up than a DSII and if I ever need to switchback to the points, it is a five minute fix. Also, I have a brand new IgnotorII sitting in my garage. The problem is, I don't know if the one I have will fit the newer year dizzy. There were two different models for 65-66 based on the dizzy shaft. One of those works on the later dizzy, the other does not. Wont know till I get it and look at the rotor shaft.

 

[66200i6]

Greetings cfmustang, just read your post. Those Idle Jet Holders are not adjustable. There function is to hold the Idle Jet in place. The adjustment is performed by replacing the Idle Jet itself.

After reading most of the string I have a couple of questions. Where did you get the carb and does it still idle with the choke engaged?

The reason I ask is because most applications for those carbs are for smaller displacement engines and will need to be re-jetted, they will usually run very lean. A good indicator of this is in beginning post. You said that it idles better with the choke on. Try closing the Idle Jet holder cap and setting the choke to the on/closed position. If this improves the idle on a warm engine you need to increase the Idle, Main and Air jets to the larger sizes needed for these size engines.

Unfortunately I don’t think the correct size Jets for the inline have been publish on this forum yet. You may be able to do a search for Weber and get some info but nothing formal. Maybe starting a new post to get a survey on the Jet sizes everyone is using. This info will need to be tempered of course with the setup of the rebuild cam, exhaust, head type, ect.

Don’t give up. Once you’re done you will be the local expert on the subject.

 

[pedal2themetal45]

HI CHRIS
Go to the home page here and click on tech and check out the link on Duraspark upgrade seams purity easy.. direct fit is say's.
If you don't know how to get to the home page just click on the fordsix.com icon up top.
Tim

 

[cfmustang]

66200i6,

Even though the jet holders are not adjustable, it seems to be the only way to get the car to idle while the choke is off. If I tighten that screw all the way, and then start the engine while it is cold, it runs...poorly, but it runs. The second the choke disengages, it dies (unless I loosen that holder screw about a quarter of a turn).

Now, the weird thing is when I first picked the car up from the garage after the rebuild this Spring, it ran...warm idle or cold. Just not well (see earlier posts about that. I think they were called "272 cam + auto tranny = higher stall torque converter") It was in my attempts to tune the engine that this situation appeared.

The only thing I can think of is that something got traped next to the idle jet and is partially blocking the passageway. That way, loosening the jet holder would act like a larger jet and fix the idle problem. Bear in mind, this is a theory based on a person who, before that last couple of weeks, knew nothing about carbs. If I have time after work today, I may pull the idle jet (since it is on the side of the carb and so the carb does not need to be opened) and blow some compressed air in there and see if that helps.

I am also considering ordering a the weber jet kit. Now, I am more nervous about changing the other jets since they are inside the carb and I have never opened one up before and I am afriad I may do more damage than I help.

To answer a few other questions, I purchased the carb new from Clifford about 10 years ago when I first rebuilt the engine and it was fine then till the engine started loosing compression on cylnders 1 & 6. The car sat for about 10 years before I had the time and money to rebuild the whole thing.

Here are some questions for you all. It sounds like I have both timing and carburations issues going on at the same time here. Should I replace the dizzy with non-Load-a-Matic first or get the carb straightened out first? Also, I have heard mention of a "Power Valve" that should be changed when the engine has lower than stock vacuum. With my cam, my vacuum is definately lower than stock (about 11 Hg at idle). Is there a equivalent to a Power Valve in the Weber that needs replaced?

 

[Anonymous]

Do you know what distributor you have now? If it is the original stock distributor, it is likely not hooked up properly since your carb has no provisions for the spark control valve. And if it is the original distributor, it likely has a vacuum cannister leak given the age.

What is your total spark advance reading with the distributor connected? You should be somewhere near or above 24 deg. More spark advance at idle will raise the idle speed, and the engine vacuum. Once it is raised, the engine will idle and run smoother. You can then back off the curb idle speed setting to reduce the idle down if necessary. You had mentioned 14 degrees of initial timing. Another 10 deg or so should be coming from the vacuum advance.

If your vacuum advance is not functioning or hooked up, you will have low engine vacuum. If it is the original distributor and it is not functioning, you will have no additional spark advance beyond the initial setting, and throttle response will be very poor as you describe. I may be wrong, but your symptoms sound like a timing issue, assumming the carb adjustment screws are set anywhere close.

Keep the jet holder screw tight. If you keep it open, you will find it impossible to tune the car. Keeping it partially open introduces another flow path that was not designed to be there, and makes the fuel flow unstable.

 

[cfmustang]

66 fastback 200,

Like I said, I am not the original owner but I never changed the dizzy so I am assuming it is the original stock 1966 unit. I don't know if there is a vacuum canister leak. Can I check that with Carb Cleaner like I checked the carb and vac lines?

How do I check total spark advance? I just learned how to use a timing light this weekend for the first time, so all I know is that I set the initial advance (with the vac line disconnected and idle at about 600 RPM) to 14 deg. Then, I plugged the line back in and tweeked the carb a bit more. I did try raising the RPMs to about 2000 with the timing light on it and I saw it advance a bit...maybe to about 16 deg.

Any help in the matter would be appreciated.

Also, how difficult is it to install a new distributor? I want to go with the 1968 model (non-Load-A-Matic) and step by step instructions would help.

Thanks,
Chris

 

[66 Fastback]

Sorry this is so long...In order to check the total timing, leave the vacuum line connected and read the advance. It is easier if your timing light is a dial back light. If it is a standard timing light, you may have to estimate the advance since the scale or tab on the engine does not go that far. You cam mark a scale on the pulley. Measure the crankshaft pulley diameter. The diameter multiplied by 0.087 will give you the amount to measure and mark off the pulley in 10 degree increments.

You can test the vacuum cannister without fancy equipment and without the engine running. Pop off the cap, and suck on the vacuum line and you should see the plate that the points are mounted on rotate. You may also be able to tell if the vacuum diaphram is leaking by sucking on the hose and putting your tongue over the end of it like a straw. If the suction bleeds off then you have a leaky diaphram.

Installing the distributor is not that difficult. Turn the engine by hand until the marks on the crankshaft pulley/balancer line up at TDC. Pull the #1 spark plug and verify that the piston is at the top of its stroke. Pop the distributor cap, the rotor should be pointing to the #1 terminal post on the distributor cap. When you pull the distributor out, note that the rotor will rotate, mark the edge of the distributor base where the rotor is pointed to. Position the rotor on the replacement distributor in the same relationship to the #1 post and the base plate mark on the original distributor. Seat the distributor in the engine, and you will note the rotor rotates slightly. If it is not pointing at or near the #1 post on the cap, you can rotate the distributor to align it. If rotating the distributor base does not get it aligned, you might have to pull the distributor and re-install, re-adjusting the position of the rotor before dropping back in.

As a side note, you may still need to verify that the balancer has not slipped. Make sure that when the crank pulley/balancer is at 0 deg or TDC that the #1 piston is in fact at TDC. If it has slipped, then you will not be able to get the engine to operate properly by setting the timing to factory specifications.

 

[cfmustang]

66 Fastback,

Okay. Here is where my ignorance is going to start to show through, so bear with me...

Once I get the dampener/pully marked, how do I check total advance. I am assumeing it is with the timing light and reving the engine, but at what rpm is it at total advance?

Also, I was confused by earlier statements. When I say that I am at 14 deg, that is at idle with the vacuum line disconnected. It was maybe a little lower (one or two degrees) with the vac line connected. Is that reading I just described initial advance?

Also, this earlier post is confusing me...

What is your total spark advance reading with the distributor connected? You should be somewhere near or above 24 deg. More spark advance at idle will raise the idle speed, and the engine vacuum. Once it is raised, the engine will idle and run smoother. You can then back off the curb idle speed setting to reduce the idle down if necessary. You had mentioned 14 degrees of initial timing. Another 10 deg or so should be coming from the vacuum advance.

Is this talking about setting my initial advance higher? Because when I did it was pinging during accelleration. Is the curb idle speed the the idle speed adjustment on the carb? Finially, is this saying that if I rev the engine with the timing light on it, I should see the engine advance 10 degrees or more?

Sorry if these are dumb questions, I am new to tuning my own engine.

-Chris

 

[Anonymous]

You might read the posts about methods of setting timing. There is some good information in those.
Typically, once the vacuum hose is connected, the advance will increase, Unless you have a vacuum cannister that has two fittings on it. In that case, one port/nipple retards the timing and one port advances the timing.

Take the cap off, and suck on the vacuum line to the vac cannister and see if the mechanism rotates.

The idle speed adjustment is the screw with a spring on it that opens the throttle plates at the base of the carb.

Rev the engine, and you should see more than 10 deg of advance. If you see plenty of advance, then I would be suspicious of the slipped ring on the balancer. If the ring with the timing mark has slipped, you will not be setting the timing at the proper point in the compression stroke. If you are not getting any advance when revving the engine, or if you get pinging when the car is timed to factory specs, it could be that your balancer has slipped.
Doug