I was looking at a sight that had some really nice blown CrossFlow Aussie cars in it and noticed that one has a Ford C9 transmission in it. I have heard that the CrossFlow 250 had C4's but have never heard of a C9. What is the scoop on a C9 and is it better/worse than a C4?
C9 transmission?
- Thread starter stanger53
- Start date
Ok, here goes:-
Ford Australia used imported US C4 autos from 1966 to 1982, when the last Cleveland 302 rolled off the lines at Broadmedows. There were C4/C5/C7/C9/C10 variants, but the C5 was never used in Oz
The C9 is the small block 289 Windsor V8 trans found in pre 72 Falcons. It's a C4 by any other name. However the C4 was used in Cortina and Falcon 6's until 1980, when it got the turf for the ancient BW 35 which first saw service in the 1959 Zephyr Mk II! (Ford Australia picked up the extra orders for BW 35 autos the Valiant didn't take when it ceased production in 1981). I've always thought the 6 cylinder C4 was called a C4. I'm sure the bellhousings between C9 and C4 are not the same, but it is possible to change them from the bolts on the inside of a C9 case.
C4 is the stock call name for the C4 transmission, but there is the lock-up clutch C5, which is a US market trans which is only good for parts..you end up putting C4 stuff in them top make them work properly.
The C10 is an externally detachable bell housing C9, and is found behind Cleveland 302's and some 351C's. It is also a C4 by an other name.
The FMX is a very old 351C trans. It uses a common 1957 Cruise-O-Matic housing which the US AOD4 4-speed overdrive auto is still based on
around. Both are really heavy.
The AOD4 is a heavy mutha trans, which Jack Collins said weighes 165 pounds (75kg). My project Falcon engine is getting one if, and when, my BW 35 breaks. I've put an adaptor plate 3/8 inch thick to change from the standard Aussie Falcon 6's bolt pattern to the V8 pattern which it uses. AOD4'S are quite cheap at 350 bucks NZ from my local parts importer. They use a very similar to BW35/40 kickdown arrangement, have no electronics like the BTR electronic auto, and are bullet proof if setup properly. I have to use the (ex F150) US 300 I6 164 tooth flywheel to fit it, not the stock 157 tooth item. Starter is US 302 V8, which is where I got the trans from.
Until the BTR gets some back-up support to hitch it to earlier non OHC sixes, I'd use an AOD4. The C4/C5/C9/C10's are lighter and just as strong when rebuilt, but it's 2002, and who want's a silly 3-speeder behind a worked six? The BTR auto is light, bullet proof, but I havent seen any adaptors or electronic control modules for the thing. Apparently its a real beggar to set up.
When Ford EFIsixes were first Turboed by AIT in 1983, they used to beaf up the BW 35 with Torrington bearings and the same sort of heavy duty clutch packs the EA Falcons got. They could handle 500 Nm (370 lb-ft) of flywheel engine torque. The BW 35/40 transmssions are very light and efficient, but MUST have the kickdown cable set up perfectly to work the way they were intended. I'd personally never use it if I could avoid it, although my Falcon GL has one that's done 230 000 km, and it runs a strong carbed, cammed, and extracted 4.1.
Ford Australia used imported US C4 autos from 1966 to 1982, when the last Cleveland 302 rolled off the lines at Broadmedows. There were C4/C5/C7/C9/C10 variants, but the C5 was never used in Oz
The C9 is the small block 289 Windsor V8 trans found in pre 72 Falcons. It's a C4 by any other name. However the C4 was used in Cortina and Falcon 6's until 1980, when it got the turf for the ancient BW 35 which first saw service in the 1959 Zephyr Mk II! (Ford Australia picked up the extra orders for BW 35 autos the Valiant didn't take when it ceased production in 1981). I've always thought the 6 cylinder C4 was called a C4. I'm sure the bellhousings between C9 and C4 are not the same, but it is possible to change them from the bolts on the inside of a C9 case.
C4 is the stock call name for the C4 transmission, but there is the lock-up clutch C5, which is a US market trans which is only good for parts..you end up putting C4 stuff in them top make them work properly.
The C10 is an externally detachable bell housing C9, and is found behind Cleveland 302's and some 351C's. It is also a C4 by an other name.
The FMX is a very old 351C trans. It uses a common 1957 Cruise-O-Matic housing which the US AOD4 4-speed overdrive auto is still based on
around. Both are really heavy.
The AOD4 is a heavy mutha trans, which Jack Collins said weighes 165 pounds (75kg). My project Falcon engine is getting one if, and when, my BW 35 breaks. I've put an adaptor plate 3/8 inch thick to change from the standard Aussie Falcon 6's bolt pattern to the V8 pattern which it uses. AOD4'S are quite cheap at 350 bucks NZ from my local parts importer. They use a very similar to BW35/40 kickdown arrangement, have no electronics like the BTR electronic auto, and are bullet proof if setup properly. I have to use the (ex F150) US 300 I6 164 tooth flywheel to fit it, not the stock 157 tooth item. Starter is US 302 V8, which is where I got the trans from.
Until the BTR gets some back-up support to hitch it to earlier non OHC sixes, I'd use an AOD4. The C4/C5/C9/C10's are lighter and just as strong when rebuilt, but it's 2002, and who want's a silly 3-speeder behind a worked six? The BTR auto is light, bullet proof, but I havent seen any adaptors or electronic control modules for the thing. Apparently its a real beggar to set up.
When Ford EFIsixes were first Turboed by AIT in 1983, they used to beaf up the BW 35 with Torrington bearings and the same sort of heavy duty clutch packs the EA Falcons got. They could handle 500 Nm (370 lb-ft) of flywheel engine torque. The BW 35/40 transmssions are very light and efficient, but MUST have the kickdown cable set up perfectly to work the way they were intended. I'd personally never use it if I could avoid it, although my Falcon GL has one that's done 230 000 km, and it runs a strong carbed, cammed, and extracted 4.1.
It's been done with THM 400 transmissions. There are kits avaliable stateside that mate two together for a long 6 speed trans! What you propose sounds good.
I actually miss-read what you wrote, not understanding that you ment by devising a cost-effective overdrive mating two trannys together and went off on another of my famous tangents. Here's how it went!
Sounds cool addo, but you'd need to power shift it with the clutch partially engaged for take off. You'd be the fluid clutch!
Clutched autos were used in some Wild Bunch cars in the early 1980's in Australia, if my Street Machine-ing memory serves me correctly. A guy in Brisbane used a clutched Powergilde for his destroked, Supecharged, 250 Holden V8 powered black HQ. I got shot of the article..SM 1990 I think.
I think autos need constant line presure via the turning input shaft to the torque convertor. As long as this can be done, you've got a vaible option there.
XECUTE gets struck by lightening bolt!
:idea: :idea: :idea: Now, where did I put the old 3-speed manual bellhousing, 9.5 inch XE EFI clutch and that old Cruise-o-matic FMX from my mates blown- up 351?
XECUTE"Hey sweetheart, don't use the car on Monday, I'm putting the clutch back in!"
I actually miss-read what you wrote, not understanding that you ment by devising a cost-effective overdrive mating two trannys together and went off on another of my famous tangents. Here's how it went!
Sounds cool addo, but you'd need to power shift it with the clutch partially engaged for take off. You'd be the fluid clutch!
Clutched autos were used in some Wild Bunch cars in the early 1980's in Australia, if my Street Machine-ing memory serves me correctly. A guy in Brisbane used a clutched Powergilde for his destroked, Supecharged, 250 Holden V8 powered black HQ. I got shot of the article..SM 1990 I think.
I think autos need constant line presure via the turning input shaft to the torque convertor. As long as this can be done, you've got a vaible option there.
XECUTE gets struck by lightening bolt!
:idea: :idea: :idea: Now, where did I put the old 3-speed manual bellhousing, 9.5 inch XE EFI clutch and that old Cruise-o-matic FMX from my mates blown- up 351?
XECUTE"Hey sweetheart, don't use the car on Monday, I'm putting the clutch back in!"
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