All Small Six Early 200 distributor confusion

[Peeledpeas]

First post here, thanks for having me.

So, some back story first, my 63 Comet has been in family since '71 or so. My uncle is a big Ford guy and had a 200 rebuilt and balanced and gave it to me to swap into my car. That was about 15 years ago. I never considered what type or variation of 200 it was, never look a gift horse in the mouth, you know? But, now I've got the Holley Sniper EFI kit on order and I've just discovered I have the 1/4" pump drive under the distributor and now I don't know what to do to replace the load-o-matic to get the EFI to work properly. The weird thing is, the engine has 5 freeze plugs which everything I've read tells me is that its a 65 or newer 200 which would have the 5/16" pump drive. So, I'm confused and need help finding a distributor that will play nice with the EFI. Oh, and the casting numbers on the block are partially missing, unless they are stamped in more than one location.

 

[wsa111]

Welcome aboard. You say that the 200 you have has the 1/4" oil pump drive??
A machine shop could ream the area to .517" where the .515" snout of the distributor goes to then use the 5/16" oil pump & hex shaft. I have a recurved DS11 distributor but you will need an ignition box & a coil. Or you can get the Holley dist. & let that control the Sniper. You can't use the loadamatic dist. you have.
I list my distributors in the small six for sale section of the forum. That will at least give you an idea to help make a choice. Bill wsa111

 

[Peeledpeas]

Welcome aboard. You say that the 200 you have has the 1/4" oil pump drive??
A machine shop could ream the area to .517" where the .515" snout of the distributor goes to then use the 5/16" oil pump & hex shaft. I have a recurved DS11 distributor but you will need an ignition box & a coil. Or you can get the Holley dist. & let that control the Sniper. You can't use the loadamatic dist. you have.
I list my distributors in the small six for sale section of the forum. That will at least give you an idea to help make a choice. Bill wsa111

Thanks for the reply. I was planning on getting the Holley Distributor that plugs right in to the Sniper when I discovered my 1/4" shaft. So, the only solution here is to replace the oil pump and machine the opening on the block?

 

[Peeledpeas]

I'm so confused on this...... everything I'm reading about these engines is telling me I have a later 7 main 200 and it should have the 5/16" pump drive.

 

[powerband]

I'm so confused on this...... everything I'm reading about these engines is telling me I have a later 7 main 200 and it should have the 5/16" pump drive.

Various casting numbers are found on the block but there should be the complete engine casting numbers behind the starter. Should start with letter C for 1960's and followed by a number determining year of design - for instance C5DE is 65, C8DE would be '68 design year. '71 Maverick engine in my Falcon has a C8DE - 3 freeze plug block casting which is a later 170 with the 5/16" drive.

C1xx through C5xx castings should definitely be 1/4". C6DE and C8DE should be 5/16. Best way to confirm 1/4" or 5/16" shaft would be to pull distributor and measure oil pump drive...

 

[Peeledpeas]

I did confirm that I have the 1/4" drive. I'm looking for a solution to replacing the load-o-matic distributor. The Holley says it fits 144 - 250 but I don't see how that can be true unless there is something in the box that adapts it somehow.

 

[bubba22349]

HI Peeledpeas, welcome to the Ford Six site. In the Small Ford Six Tech & Info section is a post listed about all the posable ways to be able to use one of the better later distributors in an early block so you can ditch the old 1/4 inch oil pump drive LOM Distribtors (see below link). If you post the Block casting / Design numbers and letters it will help ID what can be used. The 200 Six was introduced in the late half of the 1963 Fairlanes along with a special roll out of some new 1963 1/2 Model Fords this was during the kick off of "Fords Total Performace Program". The 200 went through severial block changes those first few years from the first 1963 1/2 to 1964 1/2 engines that only had the older style 4 main cranks and blocks like the 144 & 170 engines and all of them had the 1/4 inch drive oil pumps. The 1965 blocks got the 5/16 inch oil pump drive along a new block and 7 main crankshaft. In 1966 the duel bolt patterns blocks got the new larger bell housing bolt pattern for the manual transmissions, as well as keeping the original small bell bolt pattern that was used for all the automatic transmissions until the finale year of the 200's with an auto trans they got a one year only big bell block to be able to use a C5 auto trans with a lock up torque convertor. Would like to see a few pictures of your 200 six details to help I'd it there are none of these old blocks pictured here on this site so that would be a great help to us. Best of luck. Edited to correct info.

How to Use a Better Later Distributor in an Early 144, 170 or 200 Small Six Block

All Small Six - 1960 to 1967 Ford 144, 170, & 200 Six'es With a LOM, How to Install a better Distribitor

This is going to be an ongoing sticky as I have time to work on it so it will be edited so check back for the updates. :nod: First off a stock Load O Matic (LOM) Distributor also needs to have a compatible or matching Carburetor to work correctly. There are several like the Holley 1904 & 1908...

fordsix.com

 

[Peeledpeas]

Ugh, this seems like a lot of work/money now. I was already ok with spending the 800 for the sniper then another 250 for the distributor and I was even going to splurge on the in tank fuel pump model for another 360 or so. And now, I have to pull my engine, replace the oil pump and machine the hole on an engine that is still in nearly new rebuilt condition. Unless I'm missing something with my addled brain.

 

[Peeledpeas]

This is the only casting number on the right side of the engine. I pulled the starter and there's nothing behind it.

 

[bubba22349]

Thank you for posting that picture, those are the right Casting / Design Numbers but that's odd that it's missing the one number. Finding Casting Date Code would also help with this mystery. Can make out the C OE-6015 it Decodes as follows.

C for 1960

I would of expected to see either a 3 or 4 here next in that blank space for a first generation 200 short block.

It turns out that this is actually the Letter O after doing some more research tonight this now makes perfect sense O decodes as being Designed for the Ford Fairlane and these first 200 engines were designed for use the late production year 1963 1/2 Fairlanes, these early 200's were used in some of the Falcons & Comets in 1964 and possablely in the 1963 1/2 too. So yes your engine is deffenatly a 200.

D would be befor to the E would designate the engine was designed for a Falcon

E is for Engeinering Department that the part was made for which is Engine

6015 is Fords Generic Part Number for an Engine Block

Did you find any Design Numbers for the Cylinder head?

There is also one other date code on blocks and head ps that looks likes a small cast metal tag with a straight slot screw head on each end it will have two or three numbers and one letter on it. With t hose date codes you can know the exact day that part was cast at the Ford engine foundry. If found you a picture of an example of what a Casting Date Code should look like. http://fordification.com/tech/images/FEblock-datecode.jpg
Edited to correct the info.

 

[frozenrabbit]

Do you think the head is original? What's the numbers on the head?

 

[Peeledpeas]

Yes that's the right ones but they are odd. There is one other date code that looks likes a small metal tap with a straight slot screw head on each end it will have two or three numbers and one letter on it

Where is this located? There is a stamping on the downdraft tube boss that looks like a Z and some other characters that are difficult to read.

 

[Peeledpeas]

Do you think the head is original? What's the numbers on the head?

The head has a C5 xxx casting number, so not original to the car.

 

[bubba22349]

Read this section has diections for doing it without block machining.

Drilling out 1/4 for 5/16 style distributors

So after scouring the internet it looks like other than vintage inlines no one that I could find carries a 1/4 drive "performance" distributor for our cars so it would see that the easier option would be to drill out and swap oil pumps for a later 5/16 drive unit and it looks like the spec for a...

fordsix.com

 

[Peeledpeas]

Read this section has diections for doing it without block machining.

Drilling out 1/4 for 5/16 style distributors

So after scouring the internet it looks like other than vintage inlines no one that I could find carries a 1/4 drive "performance" distributor for our cars so it would see that the easier option would be to drill out and swap oil pumps for a later 5/16 drive unit and it looks like the spec for a...

fordsix.com

Is that really a good thing to do? Seems pretty cheesy.

 

[bubba22349]

The road draft tube boss is also very good way to ID an early 1960 to 1964 engine they didn't have any bolt on I D tags on these early blocks or heads. An N is a 144 a T is a 170, I think the 200 might be a U but it will take me some time to find that out. Yours is deffenatly a 200 six one of the original early blocks used from 1963 1/2 to 1964 1/2 besides the 1/4 inch drive oil pump it will have a 4 main crankshaft like were used in the 144 and 170 it's stroke will be longer at a 3.126. Yes the C5 could be a 1965 170 or 200 log head old timers offten used a 170 head on a 200 to boost the compression ratio. You could check the crankshaft stroke using a wire like a coat hanger or other down into the spark plug hole set engine at TDC mark the wire postion to the hole then turn the engine BDC bottom of stroke and mark the wire then measure the lenght between the marks and we will know what crankshaft you have in the block. Edited

 

[Peeledpeas]

Yes with this block you for sure have a 1/4 inch drive oil pump drive. The road draft tube boss is very good to ID an early engine. An N is a 144 a T is a 170. My guess now is that yours isn't a 200 six and most likely the 144 at least the original block was it could have a different crankshaft. Yes the C5 could be a 1965 170 or 200 head. You could check the crankshaft stroke using a wire like a coat hanger or other down into the spark plug hole set engine at TDC mark the wire postion to the hole then turn the engine BDC bottom of stroke and Mark the wire then measure the lenght between the marks and we will know what crankshaft you have in the block.

Did 144's come with 5 freeze plugs, though?

 

[bubba22349]

It works couple site members have done that mod. I would have a problem doing it if I needed to. if they were building the Sniper Distributor for you they could maybe custom build it to fit the early block this would only need to turn down part if the shaft below the driver gear to fit the blocks smaller pilot hole. I don't know if you read all that info or not, but the Australian Ford small six's stayed the smaller 1/4 inch distributor block pilot hole but used the 5/16 inch oil pump drive shaft with their Bosh electronic distributors so that another way too. Edited

 

[Peeledpeas]

My understanding from my research is that there were no 170's or 144's with 5 freeze plugs. I have 5 freeze plugs.

 

[bubba22349]

Oh yes your right all the 144's and early 170's only had 3 freeze plugs I forgot you had said that the block had 5. I have also found that had stated that thes early 200's only had 3 plugs. so that's some conflicting info on the first 200's. That is also what I meant that right now we don't have any pictures at all of these early 200 short blocks (1963 1/2 to 1964 1/2) and it's also been so long since I have see one, I don't think there are very many left. All 1965 up 200's gave 5 Freeze Plugs, so guess from your example the 1963 1/2 & 1964 1/2 200's did too. What I do know is that these first year or year 1/2 of 200's that they only had the 4 main crankshafts and they still had older 1/4 inch drive oil pump. I know the other specs for the Rods, pistions, their Compression Ratio, stock Power out put, about the same as the 1965 to 1968 200's. Can you take a picture of the road draft tube boss letter! Edited to correct the info. Edited