Mr. Gasket fuel pump?

[LameHoof65]

Anyone ever use this elec fuel pump as a pusher from the tank? I found two one has a blue label the other a red---I just looked briefly but one puts out about 12.5 lbs max. and the other seems to be for a serious hi-performance application. Which one should I get and how many lbs do I need from the tank to my mechanical?

 

[fordconvert]

Most carbs are wanting in the neighborhood of 3 pounds. There are a few pumps out there that do just that. I think that the mechanical pump will just pass whatever you push to it except for losses in the bends and turns and such, since it just has check valves. As long as the flow is in the correct direction it wont make any differnce if or how fast the diaphraghm is moving.

I would think to have any benifit to a electric pump you would have to set it up like on an EFI engine. A high pressure high volume pump that feeds to a regulator as close to your 'load' (in your case the mechanical pump) as you can get it. The regulator would then have a return/bypass line that sends unused fuel back to the tank. Among the benifits of this type of system is with constant flow there is not as much stress on the pump. It is very hard to design a pump (air/water/oil... whatever...) that can deliver high volume but also work properly when there is no flow such as a engine at idle. Look at any fan, if you have good flow in and out it works great, if you block part of the in or out it has serious problems. Try it with a squirl cage type of blower (heater box) if you block the inlet you can hear the rpm's increase because in a sense the fan blades are loosing traction with the air. This is called cavitation. If that happens in a fuel pump most likeley the fuel in the pump will boil and most electric pumps cant pump air so when you need fuel... guess what... no fuel. That is one reason why modern cars have the pumps in the tank so that if this does happen the fuel will naturally flow back into the pump. Another issue is cooling. Many pumps the fuel actually flows over or around the motor housing to cool it. Like many things heat kills or at least shortens life.

When you look at adding an electric pump to an older car be sure to wire it in a way that if the engine stalls for some reason or the key gets left on the pump shuts off. A cheap and easy way to do this is through and oil pressure switch. Thats how GM did it. You can just buy a T and tap it in with your exitsting light or gauge. Look up any mid 80's chev V8 carbed engine and you will see a listing for oil/choke switch (this is how they did the electric chokes also). That way the pump only runs when the engine is running because thats the only time there is oil pressure. You may have to use a relay depending on the amp draw of your pump. Fueses are good also. Some of the guys I know also put in a 'prime' button. They add one under the dash or use some unused switch to run the fuel pump in cases of sitting for a long time or to help clear a vapor lock. Seems to work pretty good. You dont have to worry about the pump not running before the engine (oil pressure) starts most of the time because there should be enough fuel in the bowl to get it started, if not thats what the manual button is for. I suppose you could get more relays and or diodes and hook it to the crank/white wire on the start solonoid? Or some fancy relay circut to run off that 7 ish volt 'choke' terminal on the newer alternators.

I know a guy that lost a '63 vette and part of his house to this problem. What happend was he just stopped home to grab something and left the car running in the driveway. For whatever reason it stalled. Fuel pump was just wired to the ignition circut so it kept running. Overcame the needle in the carb which pumped fuel into the hot engine till it started flowing out everywhere... hits hot manifold or something like that poof! fire with the pump still running pumping more fuel to the fire. This got worse because it was fall, dry and lots of leaves....... Big mess!

 

[Anonymous]

why do you feel you need a pusher from the tank?

What type of induction are you running? a 2-bbl carb?

 

[Anonymous]

I have the mr gasket pump... works great, the one you want is only like 30$ and puts out i think 3-9psi or somthing like that. I havnt had a problem with too much pressure... but you could install a pressure regulator if you wanted

the pump was really easy to install took less than an hour... just splice it in the fuel line right at the tank

 

[LameHoof65]

Don't really know that I will need anything other than the mechanical. However, I am building a setup similar to others that seemed to be starving for fuel. My carb is a holley 2300/500 with the direct mount. Just curious mainly, regarding how and where I might place one if the need should arise. My first thought is if I am going to buy fuel lines I should just rebuild the whole thing---from the tank back---starting with a new tank. I am thinking about a 3/8 aluminum line from the tank to the mechanical pump and on into the holley with a couple of filters 1 at the holley inlet--standard--- and perhaps a clear one between the mechanical and the electric with a pressure gauge before the carb...Bottom line, I want to set it up for a turbo (eventually)---I have read as well that the holley 500 does fine at low end but at high end it seems to starve.

 

[Anonymous]

I think you have been getting a lot of BAD information.


1) you won't need anyhting bigger than 5/16" unless you plan on going over 500 HP

2) don't waste money on a fuel pump unless you need it. Then get it.

3) What is everyone's obsesion with the 500 Holley? I have a 600 on the 400 in my F-250 and its too big. In my opinion (and everyone has one) a 500 on a 200 is absolutely un-necessary. I would like to say more to really send my sentiments home, but that would be rude. A 500 doesn't belong on a 200, period.

4) I would never recommend a 500 carb on any 200, MUCH LESS on a turbo 200.[/i]

 

[LameHoof65]

Thanks for the information...Linc, I got the 500 from a guy who rebuilds these holley's and we discussed the 350 and the 500 he said that if it didn't work out for me I could trade it in for the 350. So I am not dead set on the 500. Also, the price was very reasonable---I could have bought both for less than most could buy one of them new. I have several plans for this cpe, some are probably unrealistic, I just enjoy working on it and experimenting. Do I waste some money---yea, ocassionally. "Bad Info" yea probably---but then that is why we have guys like you on here, to clear that stuff up!

The reason I posted this now is because I allocate only so much cash a year for the stang. Folks like you help me decide how best to spend it.

Thanks

 

[Anonymous]

The reason I posted this now is because I allocate only so much cash a year for the stang. Folks like you help me decide how best to spend it.

We are all here trying to get you your best buys with the best returns!

 

[hasa68mustang]

I would like to say more to really send my sentiments home, but that would be rude. A 500 doesn't belong on a 200, period.

4) I would never recommend a 500 carb on any 200, MUCH LESS on a turbo 200.[/i]

linc just because you dont run such a gynormous carb doesnt mean you have to be jealous and getting everyone to sell theirs so you can be faster than us... , yea I got mine cheaper than a 350 and they make n/a cars faster.... DUH

 

[wsa111]

Linc, the 4412-500 holley is rated at a different HG than the 4bbl's.

The 4412 on a modified engine will make a dramatic difference in street driveability & on the track, 2-3 tenths et & at least 2-4 mph in the quarter.

Why don't you ask Doug mustang geezer, or Michael Raley on the difference between the 350 & the 500 holley.

You have the experience with the supercharged area, but with hands on experience with the naturally aspired area the 500 will out power the 350.

The 350 carb is probably the best carb with a stock engine & with a supercharged engine, but the 4412 will blow the doors off a modified 200 compared to the smaller carb.
Ask the rest of the forum, speak out. William

 

[Anonymous]

I think you have been getting a lot of BAD information.


1) you won't need anyhting bigger than 5/16" unless you plan on going over 500 HP

2) don't waste money on a fuel pump unless you need it. Then get it.

3) What is everyone's obsesion with the 500 Holley? I have a 600 on the 400 in my F-250 and its too big. In my opinion (and everyone has one) a 500 on a 200 is absolutely un-necessary. I would like to say more to really send my sentiments home, but that would be rude. A 500 doesn't belong on a 200, period.

4) I would never recommend a 500 carb on any 200, MUCH LESS on a turbo 200.[/i]

Yes there is a lot of bad information.....especially in this post!

A 350 Holley is good for a N/A mild street 200 and a 500 Holley is a excellent choice for a N/A wild street/strip 200.

Please, if you are planning to replace your 35-40 year old 5/16 fuel line consider upgrading it to the 3/8 line at this time being it will cost you only a few dollars more and you will never have to worry about it again.

The older 6 cylinder Mustangs came with 5/16's fuel line and the V8 Mustangs (if I understand my info correctly) came with 3/8 line and being some of us are making V8 power, it only stands to reason that it would be a good time to upgrade it!

I've ran both carbs and for my car the 500 wins hands down.

Darwin,

A pusher pump back by the fuel tank is a fine idea, just make sure that you mount it so there is no chance for it to get hit by debris if you run over somthing in the road.

Holleys (of any kind) require between 5-7 lbs of fuel pressure to operate properly. Its a good idea to have a pressure switch to kill the fuel pump in case of an accident/ roll over, etc.

You can wire a oil pressure switch into the oil pressure sensor (by way of a "T" fitting) and get an inertia switch off a newer fuel injected Ford vehicle and wire that into place for a positive shut off in case you are rear ended. You know the stories about classic Mustang fuel tanks!

Oh BTW linc....quoting you off another part of the forum.....

I DON'T CARE what anyone says, the 500 carb is too big for a 200, period......and no one will ever get me to change my mind, because I know for a fact it is just too big and I can't stand to see other people try to use them.
I know all about mustang geezer and mustangaroo trying them and what not, and if they can get their's to half-ways run fine then good for them, but a smaller carb will be easier to keep in tune and will ALWAYS have better driveability.

My car runs a hell of a lot better than "half assed" as you imply!! :x

And dont worry.....I'm not going to waste my time on you either!

Doug

 

[Anonymous]

Man, cool off. I never meant anything personal.

The older 6 cylinder Mustangs came with 5/16's fuel line and the V8 Mustangs (if I understand my info correctly) came with 3/8 line

None of them came with 3/8" line

My car runs a hell of a lot better than "half assed" as you imply!!

And dont worry.....I'm not going to waste my time on you either!

Can you READ??!!??

I never said either of those things!

 

[mraley]

Well, I've got toss my 2 cents into the discussion.....

I have ran both the 350 and the 500 Carbs

Both work great.

Properly tuned, the Holley 500 is an excellent choice. Personally, I have noticed increased accleration on low and full throttle along with about a 10 HP Gain with upgrading from the 350 to the 500.

Acceleration is crisp and my fuel milage around town is still 20 MPG. On the Highway I've gotten as high as 25.

I do not have any bogging or dead spots at anywhere.

Now I must ask.......Why would the 500 cfm be a wrong choice when the performance is about as close to fuel injection as you can get?

Anyone???????

 

[Anonymous]

Well, I'm man enough to say when I have been wrong.

 

[mach1 mark]

So, does a stock fuel pump work w/a Holly 500cfm or will I need to get an electric pump. I was just going to bolt on my stock (napa) fuel pump.

 

[Anonymous]

So, does a stock fuel pump work w/a Holly 500cfm or will I need to get an electric pump. I was just going to bolt on my stock (napa) fuel pump.

It should work fine. The fuel pump should be able to keep up with the holley.

 

[wsa111]

Mark, as long you have over 5# under full throttle acceration you will be ok.

I like an electric as a pusher just to be sure I have the proper pressure at maximum power.

If you are just bolting the 4412-500 carb on without going to 68 main jets you are losing much fuel miliage. The restrictors under the power valve should be in the .052-.055 diameter, not the stock .061 diameter. The idle restrictor in the metering block should be in the .030 diameter instead of the stock .034 demenision. The 500 is a great carb but you will lose some power & much fuel economy if not jetted leaner in all areas. Once you have leaned it out then put an 8.5 power valve to prevent a lean condition on transfer from the idle circuit to the main jets

Any of the 2300 Holley carbs you have to make richer on a N/A engine, you best check your fuel pressure.. William

 

[Anonymous]

The restrictors under the power valve should be in the .052-.055 diameter, not the stock .061 diameter.

The idle restrictor in the metering block should be in the .030 diameter instead of the stock .034 demenision.

How do you suggest he reduce these?

 

[Geezer 300]

Guess I shouldn't mention my 850 dp on my 300

 

[STEVEN.]

Nor I.....with my 1050-cfm Dominator carb..........on my 2.3 'four' : Now,is everything OK fella's 8) : ~OO6.