newbie with a '62 170 w/single barrel Holley

[Tisch68Falcon]

I will start by apologizing and admitting that I probably had no businesses buying this car. It is a 68 Ford Falcon with a 62 170 in it. It just seemed like it "fit" my daughter. Down to the problem. It starts out running well. After driving about 20 minutes or so it will completely die when you accelerate. If I let up I can keep it running. Once it is warm I can't get over 50 mph. Myself and someone who actually knows something have been messing with the carb. mostly adjusting. But this morning I noticed something that I am wondering if it is causing my problem. Down low where the carb connects to the spacer there is a tube coming out. It runs over toward the fuel pump. Then there is a 6 inch piece of rubber fuel line attached and a bolt stuck in it. Now I will admit I am no expert, but I am willing to bet that is not the way the engine came from the factory. Could this be my problem?

What should it look like? I snapped pix if it would help.


Tisch

Other info:

carb is Holley 1909
2nd new fuel pump
new sending unit
new filters
all new fuel line

 

[jamyers]

Sounds like the pcv line, should go to a metal "hat" stuck into the front driver's side of the block between the distributor and the coolant hose. Not having a pcv wouldn't have much affect on performance, but will lead to lots of sludge in the engine.

On a '62 engine, should have a steel line coming out of the carb, going to the vacuum can on the Load-O-Matic distributor. And the steel fuel line from the pump to carb, of course.

So it runs well when the choke is on, but once it warms up it starves?

Have you taken the carb apart? The 1909 is a *really* simple carb to rebuild.

 

[Tisch68Falcon]

The "Hat" is not there. I can see a hole in the block where I assume it bolts to.I have had the carb apart but I can't find what rebuild kit I should be looking for.

When I had it running I took the bolt out of the line and the idle increased a ton. I tried to change the idle and leave it out but that didn't seem like it was going to work. I put the bolt back in. I thought it may be a PVC valve lline but didn't know what valve to get and again without the "hat" there no idea where it should go.

To top it all off. I don't even know if this is what is causing my problem. If it is the carb that needs to be rebuilt I am up for it as long as I can find a kit.

 

[Tisch68Falcon]

After reading oh... maybe 50 posts on carb and fuel related issues I came across one that suggested a new gas cap. The guy who sold me my car had drilled a small hole in the gas cap. I put some tape over it (temp fix) and drove for over a 1/2 hour up steep hills and it did not lose power once. Could that really be that cause or should I keep looking?

Tisch

 

[Asa]

it's possible, i remember reading about someone else having a similar problem, but i can't be sure
although it makes a bit of sense

 

[Tisch68Falcon]

This web site and all of the people who post has been very helpful. Now back to the PVC thing. Should I even worry about it?

 

[Eric Rose]

Could be that your vent tube on the gas tank is clogged. It might be creating a vacuum keeping your fuel pump from getting gas from the tank. The tube comes out next to the filler elbow and exits behind the bumper on the passenger side. I just jabbed a peice of stiff wire into the outlet on mine and dug out all the dirt that had built up and then blew it out from the fuel filler end with compressed air.

 

[jamyers]

Here's a pic of my old '62 engine, the hat thingy is the fitting on the end of the piece of hose.

If you've got an open hole there, you need to put something in there - either another fitting or a plug. Opening up the hose will let air into the manifold, like a vacuum leak. I think you'd be best finding a way to hook it back up, or plug the hole and get a later valve cover with the pcv valve in the cover.

Any decent auto parts place oughta be able to find a kit for that carb, it was pretty much a one-year carb on the Falcons.

On the gas cap, there is a fuel tank vent line coming out of the tank near the sending unit, it should be clear and let the tank vent freely. A hole in the cap is redundant, unless the vent line gets clogged (like when bugs nest in the end, like they like to do around here.). The tank should be freely vented, or it'll starve of fuel at some point.

 

[Tisch68Falcon]

Nope that hat is not there. My car also have a breather cap not like yours is set up. The hole is threaded I can see on your engine it has a bolt in it. I thought is was running well. I drove it an hour and a half up and down hills with no problems. Then today I took it on one final drive before turning it over to my daughter and it did the same thing. My father-in-law wonders if it could be fuel related and said there is an additive for older cars that used leaded gas. What do you think?

Thanks so much for your help and for posting the pic. so far everyone on the net or people I have met are sure willing to help out.

Tisch

 

[wallaka]

Lead additive won't help the car run better, it is strictly to lubricate exhaust valve seats. Not really needed either, IMO.

 

[jamyers]

That engine had a breather cap too, I just stuck the hose into the valve cover to pull the engine. Yous pcv has been disabled and needs to be restored somehow, but that shouldn't cause it to die after 20 minutes.

Back to your original post...sounds like a fuel restriction caused by trash in the carb, plugged filter, weak pump, blocked tank vent line.

Starting with simple stuff;

Fuel tank vent - stick a piece of hose on it and make sure you can blow into the tank.

Fuel pump - remove the fuel line from the carb and stick it into a can or something. Have a helper start the engine. You should get some healthy shots of gas into the can, something that would equate to a couple of quarts a minute. Hook a pressure gauge (most vacuum gauges double as this) to the line and restart the engine, you should have 4-7 psi pressure.

Fuel filter - it's new, and the above check should double-check it.

Carb - take it off and open it up. Clean it out like there's no tomorrow, spraying carb cleaner into every little hole, nook, and cranny. Confirm the float height setting. I'm digging for the rebuild kit number, a NAPA oughta be able to get you one for $20-30.

Looking online, NAPA shows it to be a kit number CRB 25611, $16.99. Or you could get one from these guys for $22 + $10 shipping: http://www.carburetor.ca/carbs/kits/CK004.htm

 

[Tisch68Falcon]

Wow Thanks. I have been feeling like I should do something, but didn't know what to do. We tested the fuel pump before and it was fine. For the price of a filter I think I will pick one up. I crawled under the car and I can not find the breather tube. But it has been cold and I didn't even jack it up. I will work on this tonight. A Big thanks for finding the kit number I thought I found it but when they show me the gaskets they looked nothing like what was on there. I will get that ordered. I guess this is why they call them project cards.

Again thanks for all the help.

Tisch

 

[Tisch68Falcon]

Any decent auto parts place oughta be able to find a kit for that carb, it was pretty much a one-year carb on the Falcons.


I have learned this real quick. The parts store is only as good as the person who waits on you. Two very different experiences at the one closest to work the first one great. the second one terrible. Now I am willing to wait for the guy who knows his stuff.

 

[jamyers]

Thinking about this thread this morning...and thought I'd point out one small error you made when you said:

...I probably had no businesses buying this car.

You've shown that not to be true just by diving in and trying stuff out. Don't let anybody fool you, these old cars aren't all that complicated - but lotsa folks think they are, then sell themselves short and don't even try to take the time to figure anything out.

When you said:

If it is the carb that needs to be rebuilt I am up for it...

You showed that you're light-years ahead of a lot of other people. Two Thumbs Up for your attitude. I predict you and your daughter will have many good memories.

 

[jamyers]

Another thought: What's the ambient temperature been when it acts up? If the coil is going out, it may be overheating and dropping out under load on warmer days, and acting fine when its cooler.

Does it have the original-type points distributor and coil?

 

[sasktrini]

Here's a pic of my old '62 engine, the hat thingy is the fitting on the end of the piece of hose.

You may just have a draft tube there that vents toward the bottom of the block, rather than a PCV system... my 64 is like that.

The fuel questions are a good direction to go... timing may be a little off too.

 

[Tisch68Falcon]

The carb kit is ordered!!! I am taking the day off on Thursday to work on the car. It does have a breather tube that vents at the bottom of the block. I will get some pictures posted. I still can't find the vent tube on the gas tank.

The temp. is cooler when it runs best. But we didn't think it was the coil because the coil is new. I still have the old one. I kept all the parts he had until I know what is what. I am not sure if it has the original-type points and distributer.

I had a friend who works on old fords quite often and he said the points looks good and the distributer is new. I have come to the conclusion that the guy who sold it to me was chasing the same issues.

My plan of attack at this point is:
Find and clean the gas tank vent tube
Rebuild Carb.
Swap out the coil for the old one?

Thanks again for the tips and encouragement.

Tisch

 

[Tisch68Falcon]

One more thing. Timing. IF it was a timing issue, is there anything else I would notice? One thing I have never mentioned because I thought it was just because the engine is small. It takes a while to get the car up to 55mph. My first car was a Camero with a 350. It was a little quicker. I am thinking there are symptoms I am missing and not recognizing.

 

[Tisch68Falcon]

New Discovery.

No gas tank vent tube. Vented gas cap.

The 68 falcons had a vented gas cap. The engine is a 62 at which time they had the vent tube. That shouldn't make a difference should it?

 

[Anonymous]

The light came on also when you were looking for the vent tube on the 68 of which they didn't have one but a vented gas cap. As I remember about my 62 that it did have the down vent tube and no pcv. All of this is pointing to run the heater hose through the spacer plate under the carb so the carb gets warm but not to hot. With the exhaust so close and part of the bottom of the carb plate attachment it has to be kept cool or cooler than the exhaust port under it, the carb gas inside could be getting to hot without the water going through there. Mine did the same until I started running the heater hose through there. It cools it down just enough to keep it from boiling. Big problem with their design then. There is new ones available through Mac's Antique car parts for $73.95 I think it was but they are available new if you don't have one. Used ones are around also. These engines can be tricky at times but keep at it and you will find the problem. When cleaning the carb get a welders tip cleaner to help poke out some of the passages in the carb that you can get to to help operations before you spray carb cleaner through it. Good luck Champion2211