Over heating & pinging - NO MORE!!!

[MPGmustang]

Hey guys, it's been a while since i've been on but here's what's going down.

I've been over heating like crazy!!!

setup
i6 200 with 160* thermo
3 core copper rad (three 1/2 inch tubes)
6 blade v8 fan (the larger one)
and A/C condencer in front

i'm guessing i'm running at 200* (temp guage is halfway) without a/c and gets up to "hot" with a/c, i don't think the guage gets any higher but i'm sure the engine is...

when, i was drving from stafford AZ this past saturday with the a/c on and it got too hot i had vapor lock going up a hill passing a motor home (which passed me right back) waited 30 seconds tried again without a/c and went fine... did this a total of 3 times in the last 175 miles (going out to stafford was easy) my buddy didn't like no a/c but wanted to keep going...

so my plan is to
flush the block (with garden hose) running and radiator
replace the 160* with a 180* (should keep water in long to cool it more)
replace hoses (no idea how old hoses are)
and replace radiator if those don't work to an aluminum with high flow (two 1 inch tubes) and look for another flex fan maybe...


Anything else that i should look into before replacing everything?

 

[rbohm]

8) i agree with the maintenance part, but perhaps you dont have a cooling system problem. remember that when the load on the engine gets heavier, in your case running the a/c while climbing hills, the exhaust manifold is going to get hotter as well, and the carb sits right over the top of the manifold. also make sure your fuel pump is up to the task of supplying enough fuel to the carb. i had a similar problem with my 64 falcon, except i would get detonation going up a hill under load, but when i changed out the fuel pump that went away.

 

[MPGmustang]

I know one thing that is literally killing my engine... i'm pinging horribly... and it's getting worse lately espesially after that long drive

can I richen the idle screw to affect crusing speeds?

i noticed the pinging roughly after i replaced the head gasket (3-4 months ago) but didn't know what it was until 6 weeks ago when my cousin drove the car, he said that the sound i'm hearing (punches the gas) is the engine pinging...

so, too much gas pings my enigne, so i've been less gas happy, but that's about all i can do, now it's easier to ping when it's hot... should i replace the gas pump? my dad mentioned to replace the gas filter that's before the pump should help on vapor lock...

It seems to me that i'm wearing this enigne out... need help pls

Richard

 

[jamyers]

Pinging (detonation) will dramatically increase the engine temps, and can cause serious internal damage. Sounds like you need to re-check the ignition timing, and probably back it off 2-6 degrees.

Richening up the idle screw will have a slight effect on cruise air/fuel mixture, but I wouldn't recommend it - that's like messing up "A" to fix "B", which rarely works out well.

 

[MPGmustang]

I'll back it off, although i did set it to 8* advance. i wonder if my LOM is going bad. Someone mentioned in one of the other overheating threads the LOM can go bad, if so maybe i should just get the DUI i've been drooling over with a mechanical advance... but i'll also check the vacum, and make sure i have enough.

i still think the thermo is the big problem and i'll run cool water from the hose until i'm sure there is no gunk in the system. i'll have to wait tho till early morning tues/thurs or saturday...

the hose's i'll get today, i'll even see if i can reroute the heater hoses to the other side. and the fuel filter.

 

[jamyers]

One thing that's worth trying is a coolant system cleaner (NOT a flush). You flush the system, put this stuff in with just water, and drive it for a couple of days (heat/cold cycles) then flush once or twice. I think they've got something like muriatic acid that eats on the gunk in there, so don't be suprised if your radiator springs a leak or two, in which case it was time to replace it anyways. :mrgreen:

 

[rbohm]

8) doing anything with the idle mixture screw wont do anything for cruise rpm as that opening doesnt have fuel flowing through it above 1500rpm or so. pinging can be caused by too much timing, not enough timing, lean mixture, carbon build up in the combustion chambers, or the cooling system running too hot though not overheating. one thing you can try is turn your heater on full blast before you go up the hill, and if the ping goes away, then you need to improve engine cooling.

 

[MPGmustang]

I’ll retime the engine again to see if it has changed, for a LOM, where should my advance be? Or the max vacuum be? Do you think a DUI help fix or not change the problem?

Another thing I remembered is that when I bought the car, the vacuum never worked, it was initially advanced the whole time. When I finally figured it out I got the vacuum module replaced and u can now see the timing changing, honestly I think it's too much but I don't know what normal should be. A while back it read 19-22 inches and I’ve been told that's normal/good. But is that too much for this engine that was used to accelerating without advance and an automatic? Now without the auto, there is more vacuum and a working vacuum module. On top of that, the vacuum that was being used came from the manifold, not the ported vacuum from the carburator, would this affect performance?

It honestly feels like I’m hitting my head against a brick wall because I’m not sure what I’m doing with this vacuum stuff...

My other question would be about the radiator, would it be a good investment to get a 2 row 1 inch aluminum radiator? I’m thinking the a/c heats up too much and in turn heats up the radiator even faster, right now I’m a floating temp gauge, and I know the temp rises and falls because the performance is dramatically better when it’s cooler.

Pinging happens sometimes when it’s really hot and I’m just and only cruising along or rarely but lately more often, when I’m slowing down I’ll get an occasional ping…

So things I’ll check/do in the morning,
Timing (set to 6*)
Vacuum (last known was 19)
Replace hoses
Replace t-stat
Run hose though block (to check passage ways)

If that doesn’t work, I’ll order an aluminum radiator with a 1 inch rows and 1/2inch row to replace my three 1/2th inch copper radiator… /when i bought the car it originally came with one of these... wish i knew wheree to get another one.


Richard

 

[Lazy JW]

......

Another thing I remembered is that when I bought the car, the vacuum never worked, it was initially advanced the whole time. When I finally figured it out I got the vacuum module replaced and u can now see the timing changing, honestly I think it's too much but I don't know what normal should be. A while back it read 19-22 inches and I’ve been told that's normal/good. But is that too much for this engine that was used to accelerating without advance and an automatic? Now without the auto, there is more vacuum and a working vacuum module. On top of that, the vacuum that was being used came from the manifold, not the ported vacuum from the carburator.....

The vacuum from the LOM "vacuum module" will NOT be the same as the reading from the manifold vacuum.

19-22 inches of manifold vacuum is pretty good, in fact it is a bit on the high side (depending on your elevation) which indicates that your timing "may" be advanced too far. This, plus the heavy pinging makes me wonder if your timing marks are accurate.

Please, do NOT continue operating your engine under heavy pinging, it WILL cause damage

A phenolic spacer under your carb, plus a heat shield would help the vapor lock situation.
Joe

 

[Stang67]

Most people say if you have a inline 6 engine you should not have a/c in becasuse you have to make a decision either you drive the car without a/c or you just dont drive the car but have the a/c on. They also say the inline 6 are weak engines.

 

[jamyers]

Most people say if you have a inline 6 engine you should not have a/c in becasuse you have to make a decision either you drive the car without a/c or you just dont drive the car but have the a/c on. They also say the inline 6 are weak engines.

Hah, most people don't know what they're talking about. I drive mine with a/c on all the time now.

 

[Anonymous]

On my 250, I wrapped my fuel line with reflective high temp tape I bought from AutoZone. My car now starts and runs well at any temp. Even after getting off the highway and it sitting for 5 or more minutes. This might help with your vapor lock issue.
Ken

 

[MPGmustang]

Progress made,

Timeing set to 6*
t-stat replaced with 180
1 heater hose moved to driver side
less hoses on exhaust side (like gas line, ported vac, and manifold/valve vac)
did check to see flow in the radiator, not super fast but evenly yes. maybe a IR temp might tell me more...

This doesn't make sence, i've used A/C here in AZ during hotter days in stop and go traffic, everyday for the past 7-8 months. even on those 118* days it still never got as hot as it is now. or ping as bad...
now it seems to stay cooler longer with the 180* t-stat, with the timing at 6* (it was originally 10*) it pings ALOT less when i accelerate, maybe i can back off more to like 2*... TDC is pretty accurate, at least to the eye when i replaced my head gasket.
Lazy- when i start to ping i slow down, to roughly 2000 rpm and let the car go it's comfy speed, letting the engine relax. i only go to see if there was an improvement.

Vacuum at manifold is 17-20 and ported gets up to 18ish... elevation is roughly 2500' for chandler az...

still need to replace upper and lower hoses, gas filter,

 

[Lazy JW]

If that were my vehicle I would want to know for CERTAIN what the advance actually was under conditions that make it ping. This will require mapping out the advance curve by using a vacuum gauge and a timing light, then installing the vacuum gauge into the distributor line and running it into the cabin so you can read it while driving.
Joe

 

[MPGmustang]

If that were my vehicle I would want to know for CERTAIN what the advance actually was under conditions that make it ping. This will require mapping out the advance curve by using a vacuum gauge and a timing light, then installing the vacuum gauge into the distributor line and running it into the cabin so you can read it while driving.
Joe

Alright, i'll get this hooked up. what am i looking for with the timing light, where the mark rests? how much vacum should i have during acceleration?

My uncle said to richen the g/a ratio and see if that will let it run cooler... i'm going to try it today to see if there is a temp drop.

Richard

 

[Anonymous]

I think your uncle might be talking about richening up the air/fuel ratio. That is done by changing the jet in the carb. If you change the jet to a higher number you are increasing the amount of fuel into the engine. The idle screw adjustment is just that, it only applies to the idle, then when the butterfly is opened up, (engine accelerates), the main air/fuel circuit takes over.

15 to 18 inches of vaccum is a good setting.

If there is a hill in your area you can drive up, try cruising up it at a steady speed, listen for pinning. If you dont hear any try it again and accelerate alittle, if you hear pinging, then stop somewhere and backoff your timing a little. then repeat your adventurous cruise back up while accelerating again.

I had a faint ping sound in my Mav while cruising 70mph. I added WaterWetter (AutoZone sells this) and my pinging went away.

Try this, I hope it works,
Ken

 

[MPGmustang]

well this is odd, i changed the idle g/a ratio, i drove it to work in the morning and noticbly cooler, then again all morning for reading customer electric meters (65 mustang reading meters... 8) ) and even drove on the freeway, it's 100+ outside right now and it kept it cooler than what i was doing, i even had the a/c fan on high keeping the compressor on all the time and i got cold and the engine temp stayed little higher than midway... much lower than too high for the guage

Now i want to change Jets... if the G/A idle did that much maybe jets would be the right way to go? the only time i went to get a dyno test i was runing 13:1 ratio, i want to go 9:1 right?
where can i get jets for a 1100 vaporizer?

the pinging is still there but MUCH quieter. it won't ping right away when i floor it but it will after 5-8 seconds... any other ideas?

I really do appreciate all that you have posted and helped with, the other threads (from searching) are also answering alot of my questions as well... Thank you very much!

Richard

 

[jamyers]

For gasoline, the perfect air/fuel ratio is 14.7:1 at cruise, most engines like a little richer (13:1) at wot, only way to know for sure what yours likes it to get a wideband gauge and chassis dyno. 9:1 is awful rich for any gasoline engine.

I'd be more inclined to set the ignition timing by ear rather than by timing light, especially if your harmonic balancer / crank pulley isn't fairly new - because the outer hub can easily walk around enough to make the timing mark off, especially if you've got a/c. Every time the compressor kicks on it's a sudden shock to the pulley/hub.

 

[MPGmustang]

well the over heating has stopped completely BUT i'm still pinging.

almost any time i want to accelerate in 2nd or a higher gear i ping forcing me to take it slower... I really don't like this. i wonder if i'm advanceing at all.

i have tried the timing at 2* and it made it worse, then i tried at 12* and it seemd alittle better but not much, i then tried to guess 16* and there is improvement but again not much. i'm begining to think that my vacum modual is bad again... but when i rev the engine in idle with the timing light i can see the mark advancing....

any idea's would be very helpful

Thanks again,
Richard

 

[JackFish]

Perhaps the pinging is being caused by an increase in the compression ratio due to carbon fouling on the pistons and valves.
I'd also have a look at the mechanical and vacuum advances in the distributor.