PLEASE HELP GUYS. Timing set problem.

[First Fox]

I know this has been discussed before, but the search function left me hanging. Here's the deal:

I have been trying to degree my cam and with my new timing set as well as my old one that was on the engine, the timing keeps coming in at around 10 degrees advanced! I remember some discussion about the older timing sets being retarded or advanced, cant remember but it appears that both of these sets are the advanced sets and I need to know which ones are the "retarded" or straight up sets.

I really need to get this thing back together as I have a week off work and this is really holding me up. I would really like the adjustability of one of Mikes sets, but 100 bucks is just too much money for me. I have degreed several cams and they were never off by more than a couple of degrees and I had intended to just use an offset key if I needed some adjustment, but 10 degrees is too much for a key.

Anyone know what year/application I would need to look for at the parts store?

 

[80broncoman]

I know this has been discussed before, but the search function left me hanging. Here's the deal:

I have been trying to degree my cam and with my new timing set as well as my old one that was on the engine, the timing keeps coming in at around 10 degrees advanced! I remember some discussion about the older timing sets being retarded or advanced, cant remember but it appears that both of these sets are the advanced sets and I need to know which ones are the "retarded" or straight up sets.

I really need to get this thing back together as I have a week off work and this is really holding me up. I would really like the adjustability of one of ikes sets, but 100 bucks is just too much money for me. I have degreed several cams and they were never off by more than a couple of degrees and I had intended to just use an offset key if I needed some adjustment, but 10 degrees is too much for a key.

Anyone know what year/application I would need to look for at the parts store?

Sets that are going to be retarded will start somewhere around 1972. Note Not all engine got the retarded timing sets.
I have more knowledge of the larger sixes. Wish I could help more.

I feel I must say, NOTE: that the degrees ion a timing card is in crank degrees, and Not cam degrees.

 

[JackFish]

This is a stock cam right?

 

[First Fox]

This is a stock cam right?

No. It is a mild comp cams grind, 260H.

Just an update though, I was unable to find a timing set locally and I ran the numbers on the one they offered to order for me and it is same as the one I have now. Glad I checked.

I decided to do a little old fashioned hot rodding and modified my crank sprocket by cutting a new keyway with less advance. 8)

It was guesswork and so far it took two tries, but the first one I shifted too much in relation to the new tooth, and the second one not quite enough. The first keyway placed the centerline 1 degree retarded from straight up, (111) and the second one 7 degrees advanced from straight up (103). They grind 4 degrees of advance into this cam so it has a centerline of 106.

I am now taking a break and researching and attempting to convince myself that an extra 3 degrees of advance will not kill me as it took quite some amount of work to cut a new keyway.

 

[First Fox]

Update: Couldn't live with it. It would have drove me nuts. Took another stab by cutting another keyway. This one did it and got it installed with one degree of advance from C/L (105), or 5 degrees from straight up. Now THAT I can live with. 8)

Thanks anyway guys.

 

[rbohm]

8) just so you know for the future, should you need to change the timing set again;

1: comp cams grinds their cams 5 degrees advanced to begin with to allow for timing chain stretch

2: you can run as much as 6-8 degrees advanced with no issues, in fact you would gain low end torque which is what our sixes need.

 

[First Fox]

8) just so you know for the future, should you need to change the timing set again;

1: comp cams grinds their cams 5 degrees advanced to begin with to allow for timing chain stretch

2: you can run as much as 6-8 degrees advanced with no issues, in fact you would gain low end torque which is what our sixes need.

For the record, all off the shelf comp cams I have installed have had 4 degrees of advance ground into them.

As for advancing the cam that much for improved torque, its probably too much with a cam this size. This cam only has a few more degrees of duration than stock. I would be willing to bet the thing would fall on its face @3500 rpm. Besides, I have the torque thing covered in the way of a sparkly new turbocharger.

 

[sleeperi6]

Seven years ago I installed a comp cams and it was 32 degrees advanced! At first I thought I was doing something wrong so I had my more experienced father degree the cam with the same results. Called comp cams and they swore up and down that i was doing something wrong and it wasn't the cam even after going through the steps to degree a cam with me. It took Mikes adjustable timing set and jumping a tooth on the cam sprocket to get three degrees advance if i remember right. From my experience the problem may not have been the timing set.

 

[First Fox]

Seven years ago I installed a comp cams and it was 32 degrees advanced! At first I thought I was doing something wrong so I had my more experienced father degree the cam with the same results. Called comp cams and they swore up and down that i was doing something wrong and it wasn't the cam even after going through the steps to degree a cam with me. It took Mikes adjustable timing set and jumping a tooth on the cam sprocket to get three degrees advance if i remember right. From my experience the problem may not have been the timing set.

YIKES! I made the assumption that the problem was with the cheap stock replacement timing set, but your story sounds very similar to mine and makes me wonder if comp just made a bad batch of cams. I got mine in a trade from another member here and it may be 7 years old or so, I have no idea, but it was from another one of his projects and he never used it, so maybe?

Having said that however, I have installed many of comps' cams in the past, albeit on V8's of the Chevy, Ford and even Mopar flavors and all were very close to where they were supposed to be + or - a couple of degrees. I have degreed every cam I have ever installed, even when the engine is still in the car and reasons like this are exactly why. Like I said, I never had a problem before being this far off, but there is a first time for everything and this cam installation, like yours, would have ended in disaster if I had just "lined up the dots" and called it a day. There is a lesson here for all of us.

While this problem may have been ground into the cam to begin with, I didn't have another known cam on hand with which to check it. I made it right by filing several new keyways into the crank and got it installed very close to where I wanted it.

Just got it running a few days ago BTW, along with the T-5 swap the car is now just an awesome driver! 8)

Thanks for sharing your experience.

 

[sleeperi6]

I was going to just put it in and run it but my father had just purchased a camshaft degree kit and i want to play with it, "you know shiny new tool".
I learned a valuable lesson that day, whose to say another manufacturer couldn't make the same mistake.