TDC on the compression stroke. You have a 50/50 chance
All Small Six Help! Did I just screw up my new build?
- Thread starter WillingnessLimp
- Start date
This relates to all small sixes
Yep, my super power is to drop it in 180° out first time, every time.
I might as well not even try to get it right
Verify that you are on #1 compression stroke, not exhaust stroke. both #1 rockers should be slack. Backfire in carb is late ignition timing 95% of the time. If you turned the engine with the distributor out you may be on #1 exhaust cycle, the ignition timing is 180* late if so.
Vacuum advance is not a factor at cranking speed.
Make sure that you do not lose the oil pump driveshaft when taking the dist. in and out and it stays in place.
Yes. This is a critical thing to keep in mind. The previous owner of my car lost the oil pump driveshaft and trashed the crankshaft when he installed a Pertronix ignition module. It must have fallen out when he pulled the distributor. I figured I’d find it in the oil pan but it was nowhere in the engine or any of the parts that came with the car.
WillingnessLimp
Well-known member
@pmuller9 i must apologize, I actually think you are right…my post Flu brain wasn’t thinking right… I just put piston at TDC and was thinking it’s a compression stroke…
After reading @Frank comment, it’s like a light bulb went out and I was like “shoot, I didn’t check if any of the valves were open”.
Wanted to work on the car so badly, that as soon as I started feeling better (and off work hehe) went to the garage to put it back. I’ll get back to it over the weekend with clear head and recheck everything.
Thanks again for pointing it out!
After reading @Frank comment, it’s like a light bulb went out and I was like “shoot, I didn’t check if any of the valves were open”.
Wanted to work on the car so badly, that as soon as I started feeling better (and off work hehe) went to the garage to put it back. I’ll get back to it over the weekend with clear head and recheck everything.
Thanks again for pointing it out!
'it can't happen here
...'.
"Make sure that you do not lose the oil pump driveshaft when taking the dist. in and out and it stays in place.." -- " ... figured I’d find it in the oil pan but it was nowhere in the engine or any of the parts that came with the car."
.
IF/WHEN the distrib drive shaft is dropped into engine with distrib' removal, the shaft can be fairly easily retrieved by a magnet or grabber from pan through the fuel pump boss once pump is removed. ( ask me how I know
) ..
have fun
The things I point out is from experience, Bad experience. You usually do not forget what went wrong. I hope I do not learn anything new that way.
I do not know if this one will fit on a 200 but could be modified to work. There are different ones. Google 460 valve adjustment to see how they work. I made one for a 460.
frozenrabbit
Famous Member
Yes, that's why the lash setting seems so high, it's with the lifter collapsed. Hydraulic lifter lash is 0.067-0.200", solid lifter lash is 0.016".
WillingnessLimp
Well-known member
Stated the engine today without valve cover - @pmuller9 was right about the wrong stroke…can’t help but feeling dumb lol
Anyway, after warm up you can see that all rods are getting oiled, so I don’t think that was a problem. There is a hole on the rocker arms on the valve side - is it supposed to “shoot” oil on the valve? Because I didn’t see anything coming out of there…
Also, got a shot of the valve springs at its lowest - I think spring bind is not a case too.
As for the carb. After checking bottom of the carb to make sure it’s straight, I checked the spacer - it has a slight bend, but it’s not under pressure from the adapter studs - slides up and down nicely.
Will order a new one.
But I did notice something that seemed odd to my inexperienced eye - when it’s all warmed up and choke is open, you can see how at idle one side is constantly spraying gas and the other almost looks dry. With acceleration, same side sprays a lot of gas and the other doesn’t seem to do much. Both mixtures screws are at the same rotation - 1 turn out. But I still get the same problem with idle - it’s idling at 1,000 rpm (10 degrees timing) and the idle screw is all the way back and not touching the lever.
Anyway, after warm up you can see that all rods are getting oiled, so I don’t think that was a problem. There is a hole on the rocker arms on the valve side - is it supposed to “shoot” oil on the valve? Because I didn’t see anything coming out of there…
Also, got a shot of the valve springs at its lowest - I think spring bind is not a case too.
As for the carb. After checking bottom of the carb to make sure it’s straight, I checked the spacer - it has a slight bend, but it’s not under pressure from the adapter studs - slides up and down nicely.
Will order a new one.
But I did notice something that seemed odd to my inexperienced eye - when it’s all warmed up and choke is open, you can see how at idle one side is constantly spraying gas and the other almost looks dry. With acceleration, same side sprays a lot of gas and the other doesn’t seem to do much. Both mixtures screws are at the same rotation - 1 turn out. But I still get the same problem with idle - it’s idling at 1,000 rpm (10 degrees timing) and the idle screw is all the way back and not touching the lever.
Attachments
You have plenty of oil flowing down the pushrod, I cannot see if they are turning. Oil should be a low dribble out of the valve side rocker hole and following the rocker and dripping on the tip of rocker and valve. Your idle is so low you may not have enough pressure. What is the oil pressure as videoed? I would like to see more oil on the valve side of rocker, that is what cools the valve. Maybe it is fine at driving speed? Did you modify the shaft or rockers?
WillingnessLimp
Well-known member
I guess it’s time to take the carb apart now.
Btw, fuel pressure is 2.5-3 psi at the carb. I guess I should start with float level and checking the needle?
I’ll see if new spacer will help with vacuum leak
Shoot, I forgot to check if the pushrods are turning. Is they are not, what would that mean?
I didn’t see much dribble on the valve side…I ran the engine for maybe 5 ish min. But I see what you mean by low idle - at cruising it will be more oil pressure?
I removed the oil pressure gauge after I did first break in, but at that time oil pressure was about 60 psi at start and then would drop to 35-40.
I didn’t modify shaft or rockers. Rebuild the rockers myself - just got a new shaft, as old one was worn
If the pushrods are not turning that usually means that the lifter is not turning and the cam will fail, those parts have to rotate to wear evenly. Tell me something is that video slowed down, I do not think an engine would run that slow? Yes at cruising speed there would be more pressure and flow plus oil gets knocked everywhere.
WillingnessLimp
Well-known member
Hm, okay, I’ll check that again with push rods. Good thing that DON once suggested to get a reusable silicone gasket
Yes, it is slowed down
I’ll attach a regular speed one
Yes, if you’ve got a white paint sharpie, you can wipe the oil off the pushrods and put a dot on each one to track them. They should spin.
Weird that the spacer has a bad enough warp to cause a vacuum leak but if it’s reading 1000 RPM with the idle speed screw all the way out, there must be a vacuum leak. Did you block the PCV line at the log while you’ve got the valve converter off? If that was left open, it would certainly be a good enough leak to cause you trouble.
EDIT: I watched that video of the carb flowing fuel on the one barrel. That’s a problem. Definitely check the floats. There might be some debris preventing the needle/seat from closing properly. I had that problem with a Holley at one time and it had the same effect.
Also, yes the oil pressure is generally lower at idle than at speed. It sounds like your readings were good when you read them last. I suggest keeping an oil pressure gauge in the cab. I always glance at my oil pressure gauge when I start my car. It’s a PSD thing due to the need to rebuild it due to an oil starvation issue.
In related news, last week I found that my oil pressure sender had failed causing my gauge to read zero. It was still varying resistance based on oil pressure but the readings were out of spec. It was only about a year old and was a Standard Motor Products sender. Not the budget line either. They are not my manufacturer of choice anymore. It’s the second time one of their products failed on me. They have a 3 year warranty. I bought two at the same time so I had a spare. I installed it and oil pressure is normal again. At least for another year.
The engine sounds good in that last video. After you get the vacuum leak sorted and know all is good with your valves and lifters, I’m sure you’ll be back on the road in fine form. That is really strange that the rocker broke on you but it’s a 60 year old car with 60 years to fatigue the metal parts.
Weird that the spacer has a bad enough warp to cause a vacuum leak but if it’s reading 1000 RPM with the idle speed screw all the way out, there must be a vacuum leak. Did you block the PCV line at the log while you’ve got the valve converter off? If that was left open, it would certainly be a good enough leak to cause you trouble.
EDIT: I watched that video of the carb flowing fuel on the one barrel. That’s a problem. Definitely check the floats. There might be some debris preventing the needle/seat from closing properly. I had that problem with a Holley at one time and it had the same effect.
Also, yes the oil pressure is generally lower at idle than at speed. It sounds like your readings were good when you read them last. I suggest keeping an oil pressure gauge in the cab. I always glance at my oil pressure gauge when I start my car. It’s a PSD thing due to the need to rebuild it due to an oil starvation issue.
In related news, last week I found that my oil pressure sender had failed causing my gauge to read zero. It was still varying resistance based on oil pressure but the readings were out of spec. It was only about a year old and was a Standard Motor Products sender. Not the budget line either. They are not my manufacturer of choice anymore. It’s the second time one of their products failed on me. They have a 3 year warranty. I bought two at the same time so I had a spare. I installed it and oil pressure is normal again. At least for another year.
The engine sounds good in that last video. After you get the vacuum leak sorted and know all is good with your valves and lifters, I’m sure you’ll be back on the road in fine form. That is really strange that the rocker broke on you but it’s a 60 year old car with 60 years to fatigue the metal parts.
I am a little surprised on how little oil is splashing around at idle. I would have thought you would see oil on the cardboard 
Are you sure the holes in the new shaft are the same as the oem shaft and they are lined up with the rockers? I have messed with that one time several yrs ago but I remember it being a little tricky.
I would double check yours with the oil situation
Are you sure the holes in the new shaft are the same as the oem shaft and they are lined up with the rockers? I have messed with that one time several yrs ago but I remember it being a little tricky.
I would double check yours with the oil situation
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