All Small Six Snowcat with a Six - Getting a 1968 Thiokol Spryte up to Speed!

This relates to all small sixes

CHCzecora

New member
Jumped into Winter last year in the High Uintas with this little lady:

CHCzecora.png

Nothing like adding a tank to the family! She has been gussied up quite a bit by a previous owner, but sadly I think it was more for aesthetics than heart. So I'm here to dig deep and start where it counts.

She is working, but I had to drop in a new starter 7 miles up a canyon in the dead of Winter, and ended up tearing out a ridiculously overbuilt sound system that I'm pretty sure was drawing too much on the electrical system.

PRIMARY GOALS (this year):
  • Confirm what engine I am working with (pics below)
  • Get a much better cold environment engine start (you know, snow is cold)
  • Rehaul the electrical system to support the surprising amount of gear that is onboard (alternator upgrade?)
I definitely want to tune it up (horsepower and low end torque optimization), but I don't have a ton of time before the snow flies. Also, I don't have $10k to throw at this at the moment like the The 'Ideal' 200 Built By Committee is shooting for. Probably start with an annual, off-season budget of about $2k.

So, what am I working with here?

ZecoraEngine.png

Thanks to @Frank, @TrickSix, @DON, @powerband for the welcome and the recommendation to start my FordSix.com journey here.
 
While counting the freeze plugs on the side of the block under the exhaust manifold is the definitive test, with the engine in a "doghouse" it might require a mirror as well as a flashlight. My reading of the block casting numbers page in the Falcon Six Handbook is that C8DE without a suffix is the 170 block, and C8DE with the B suffix is a 200. I'm not an expert here, but it looks to me like the block, head, exhaust manifold, and valve cover could all have been together since the beginning. Someone will know how to read the casting date codes, but the engine should be from late '69 to the early 70s. When did the "Power by Ford" valve cover get the big bracket welded to the driver's side? Older than that. I like the rounded chrome oil cap on it, those were often found on the Sprint 200 Mustangs. The carb does not look familiar to me, but I'm used to 1100s and 1101s. The throttle linkage would probably be more like a Falcon van than a car because of the engine location. It looks a little weird though, maybe because of the new engine having a different set-up than the old. Hopefully (probably?) the distributor came with the engine too. All in all, it should be a good engine to start with.
 
A question for those better educated than I on here. That's a big distributor cap. Is it a DuraSpark of any particular vintage? Looks like the original coil was mounted on the side of the doghouse there. Anyway, a DuraSpark system should be better than the old points style distributor for cold weather starts.
 
Freeze Plug Report (@pmuller9, @drag-200stang, @TrickSix - thanks for the directions here). The "doghouse" definitely makes for some interesting gymnastics and viewing angles... but my 360º camera has come in really handy here:
ZecoraFreezePlugs.png
So assuming free plug #2 is hiding behind the exhaust, we can confirm the 200!
 
I think you have a Rochester Monojet carburetor- keep it. EDIT- it's a Carter YF carb. The narrow bowl will be superior to other brands because of the the steep angles and sharp jarring the vehicle experiences in your application. No carb likes being tilted or jarred abruptly, the fuel slosh in the bowl causes leaning/flooding. Carbs with the most compact bowls handle this best.

That's a GM style HEI distributor, if my aging eyes are seeing it right. Is the coil in the cap? If it is what it looks like, that's a 40,000V spark, the only improvement from there is multiple sparks with an MSD box. Not necessary in my opinion- others will disagree. You have a hot spark already, adding a box increases complexity of the system about 6X, and breaking down on a 12.000' peak in December is not worth the tiny gain.

Be sure the wire to the distributor has direct 12V battery power, no ballast resistor.

If you could get a factory type air filter housing, if it will fit in the confined space- this would allow you to rig the warm air intake system, and would assist cold operation, and operation the whole time, in that environment.
 
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To be more accurate the #1 freeze plug is above starter.
Yes, aftermarket GM style HEI.
The carb is a Carter YF, should say it on valve cover side of carb.
Yes, 200.
 
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The YF was stock on 240's. I ran three of them on my 200, with 2 homemade adapters, good carb. not sure if they where factory on a 200.
 
IMO the 200 six is not going to produce a lot of low end torque even after modifications without the aid of power adders such as a turbocharger or supercharger.
 
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So it looks like things are sitting pretty well with the setup so far. Thanks for the assessment!

On to the next systems:
  • Electrical (key issue that I need to tackle this year)
    • This seems to be the biggest issue with this machine, so do I have the right set up for all the electrical components? I had a snowcat mechanic say I likely need a bigger alternator. I will be running a total voltage assessment, but in the end I am pretty sure I need the biggest/baddest one the engine can take. Recommendations?
    • Battery setup is is two Optima D31M “Blue Top” (marine) in parallel, which I had to replace after the first pair died (and they really shouldn't have as they were fairly new). I added a small solar trickle charger and left things disconnected after that expensive mistake.
Zalternator.png

  • Cooling
    • I had some overheating issues, but running the heaters' blowers (cab, passenger box) solved that mostly with their integrated, smaller radiators as heating elements. It heats things up super quick... and I'd say too much, but that is what it takes to keep the engine cool.
    • Same mechanic recommended a mechanical fan, rather that the thermostat controlled electrical one that is mounted directly on the radiator. Thoughts?


  • Power
    • I like the idea of a supercharger (simple and mechanical) - next year? or should I get into this now with the alternator and fan stuff?
 
What is the elevation where you are at?

Can you do a compression test?
 
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Overheating: change the thermostat and flush the system. Mechanical fans are better, especially where you have high loads and little forward speed to generate airflow thru the radiator.
Alternator: I'm about the only advocate of single-wire alternators, but I've had 100% dependability for quite a few years now with one, and for several months with another, on a recent engine rebuild. The company has a dumb name, but they're USA built in Ohio. I've got the 100 amp model, and it generates enough amps at 750rpm to run 2 electric fans, A/C and interior fan. Since you have double belts, there's no chance of slippage at low rpms. This bolts onto a big6 without mods, will probably fit your engine as well. Transfer your double pulley to the new unit.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/tff-7068
 

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I think that for this first year you should just work on optimizing what you have. A little basic maintenance and a few simple bolt-on parts will help you achieve most of your goals at a very modest cost. An alternator upgrade is very common these days and should provide all the electrical power you will need. The early battery death you experienced might have been because of a bad voltage regulator. I'm not sure what's in there now, but the original one probably relied on lots of resistance coils and contact points to operate. There are modern solid state designs that might work better in a harsh environment.

As for your cooling issues, yes, start with a flush and thermostat. I'm not sure if there is room for an engine driven fan but if there is, the six-bladed 6 cyl AC fan blows (sucks?) better than the standard four-bladed fan. A bigger radiator might be possible as well. I don't know how much room there is there. I had to smile when you mentioned running the heaters to help cool the engine. I used to live in CO, and there were many times driving my '57 MGA that I had to run the heater full blast on a hot summer day when cresting a pass...

That engine would have usually had an automatic choke when in a car. Does the manual choke on your carburetor work? You'll need a working choke for cold starts. A coolant heater will warm the entire engine block and head, and some of that heat should get to the carb as well. I had an MGB GT I drove as a MN winter car one year, and put the biggest coolant heater I could fit in it. Despite sitting outside, it always started right up and the heater was even a little warm right away!

Engine modifications are possible, but you might want to assess what you have for a while first. A two barrel carburetor can be custom fitted either of two ways. You can leave the head on and mount the carb with an adaptor to fit the original small one barrel carb opening on the manifold. Much easier to do, but with minor gains. If you remove the head, the intake can be machined to enlarge the opening and put a proper two barrel mount on it. More cost and trouble, but with bigger gains. Either way you have to do some custom work with the linkages and lines connected to the carb. With the head off you could also do some milling to reduce the size of the combustion chambers to increase the compression ratio and increase the power a little. High RPM power is probably not what you want here, so headers with a dual exhaust, fancy cams and heavy valve springs and all that expensive machining and porting would be a waste. Or would it help the engine out at high altitude but low RPM enough to be worth it? The brainiacs on here can argue that point.

Forced induction in your Snowcat will be an enormous can of worms. If it could even be designed to fit in the doghouse, it will be very expensive as just about everything will have to be custom made. And then there's all the extra heat to be dealt with in an already overheated engine. This would not be an easy bolt-on process. I think it would be easier to just put in a different engine. Maybe a 250 would fit. If you can keep your upgrade expenses to a minimum with this current engine, switching to a bigger one if you decide that's needed down the road won't mean so much money tossed out with the old, and leave more for the in with the new. My two cents anyway.
 
What everyone else said and: 3G alternator (I think there is a large and smaller housing, I like 1 wire). As long as the choke works properly a gasoline engine ideally will start down to -30 degrees F.
They do make electric water heaters with an electric pump you install in the heater hose.
 
It looks like two of the rubber vacuum caps below the carburetor are cracked and possibly causing a vacuum leak.

What is your elevation?
 
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@pmuller9:
  • While I live at 4,650 ft (where I'll be working on it), operation of the cat will be 7-10k ft.
  • I'll work on getting a compression test right away... gotta dig out my kit from my snowmobile gear.
@Frank:
  • “TUFF STUFF”! - Ha! Looks like solid, American-made goodness. I need to ID and test my current one, but my guess is that I’ll keep the existing wiring to not disrupt things too much if/when I upgrade.
… more coming (y’all are awesome and I’m trying to keep up!)
 
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