TrickSix
Well-known member
Found a whole air cleaner, kind of expensive though - https://www.ebay.com/itm/4047185694...uid=yPAA4oA3Qxu&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
All Small Six Snowcat with a Six - Getting a 1968 Thiokol Spryte up to Speed!
This relates to all small sixes
Relax about the carb jet. She ran good last winter and unless you noticed the exhaust smelled way rich, that project is not high priority. (It doesn't matter what carb it is, all carb mixtures get richer as altitude increases- quite a bit actually, aprox. 3% per 1,000' elevation.)
Air filter housing: Also not critical, but would be beneficial to intake noise reduction, carb inlet restriction and the addition of warmed air into the carb. There's no generic, the used factory housings are always expensive. Your call, again a matter of $ priority. Be aware, there are different sized airhorn flanges on different carbs, including 2 sizes of the YF carb. Measuring the carb flange is necessary before buying a replacement. The carbs used stock on a 200 have a smaller flange @ 2.25" diameter. The YF model on the 300 has a 2.62" diameter flange, so heads up on that. The compact over-the-valve-cover factory housing would work sweetly in you doghouse I imagine, if you can locate one with the correct size carb flange.
the pics are of a 300 "large" YF carb, and a factory 300 filter housing.
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Some of the oil on the plugs is probably from bad or broken valve stem umbrella seals, and can be changed without taking the head off. At that time check out the rockers/shaft, most likely worn out and contributing to some of the noise.
CHCzecora
New member
Suddenly it is 3 weeks later - a whole lot of life with work and kids’ sports somehow getting in the way!
@Frank - the YF Carb flange is 2.63 and I like the idea of the offset air cleaner cap as you showed in the shared image. I’m pretty sure that would be the best fit for the doghouse and carb setup… the choke line might be a challenge and have to be dealt with with any setup beyond the tiny one I already have.
@TrickSix - looking around on eBay I see a couple of options based on @Frank’s offsets suggestion, but boy are they spendy. Love your advice on these options:
@Frank - the YF Carb flange is 2.63 and I like the idea of the offset air cleaner cap as you showed in the shared image. I’m pretty sure that would be the best fit for the doghouse and carb setup… the choke line might be a challenge and have to be dealt with with any setup beyond the tiny one I already have.
@TrickSix - looking around on eBay I see a couple of options based on @Frank’s offsets suggestion, but boy are they spendy. Love your advice on these options:
- Offset Option 1
- Offset Option 2
- Cheaper (cheapest I’ve seen!) dimple Option
That last option with the standard snorkel is for a V8, it won't work unless you use an adapter, and I've never found one that's durable enough for the job. Especially in your rough terrain application. The carb opening on that one is 5"- need to scratch it from the list.
TrickSix
Well-known member
Tempus fugit for sure. And I suppose you are looking to wrap up working on your Chariot before the snow flies. (Don't give Dr. Smith a ride. If he stows away push him out of the airlock at the earliest opportunity!) But those two offset air cleaners are pretty spendy for how rusty they are. They say they're taking offers, maybe lowball them and see what happens. Too bad it sold just last week, but that one I linked to in post #60 looks like the pick of the litter now. I'd wait and shop a little more to see if a better bargain shows up. You don't have to change the old air cleaner now, it's just a good idea. It's up to you to balance cost and time and need. For reference while you shop, that cheaper dimple option V8 air cleaner bottom may have a dent, but it's not really in the right place. It should be smaller and closer to the carb throat. Compare it to the first one with no top I linked to in post #60. However, since your YF carb has a bigger inlet than the 1100/1101 family of carbs, that makes whether their air cleaners fit over the choke moot. That bigger flange limits your air cleaner options. I'm thinking of going to my secret old Ford junkyard this weekend to look for a spare heavy duty cooling fan. I'll ask the guy if he's got one of those offset air cleaners. If he does I bet he'd charge less than $50 for it.
TrickSix
Well-known member
Okay, so I know next to nothing about the Carter YF carbs or the 240/300 engines. Perhaps @Frank and other actually knowledgeable people can add some truth to my speculative thoughts here. The carb on your Chariot, while an okay carb, with its larger inlet flange it does not actually belong on a 200. I guess the lower mounting flange, throttle plate, and stud spacing must be the same as the smaller inlet versions or it wouldn't have fit on the 200 spacer. A question for the smart guys - if this bigger inlet 300 carb is higher flow rated than the 200 version, does that help or hurt how it runs at altitude? Also, that manual choke looks like some kind of conversion from a hot air choke. It still has the black plastic cap on, and the linkage sticks way out from that. I looked at some Carter YFs on ebay with a manual choke and they had a much trimmer mechanism. Not to mention the way too high and floppy looking bracket it's mounted on. With this carb you will have to do some custom work to make any air cleaner fit. Air cleaners from a small six won't fit because of the big inlet and/or the high bulky choke mechanism. Air cleaners from a big six will have issues too. The conventional round ones probably won't fit because the crude manual choke conversion is too wide and high to fit in the clearance dent in the bottom plate. And the offset air cleaners from a 300, while they will fit the big inlet and perhaps clear the choke, will need to have some support brackets made to hold it up, it isn't supported solely by the carb like a round one. And using the exhaust manifold warm air plenum to direct heated air to the carb is going to be another custom job, because the small six and big six manifolds are very different. Maybe it can be adapted, maybe you'd just have to start over and make your own from scratch. That's something to think about if you buy one, they are probably more expensive if they include the warm air ducting that you may not be able to use.
So, as I see it you have a few different options here. Buy an expensive offset air cleaner and do the mods you will need to make it fit. Or buy a cheap junk YF with the real manual choke on it, or just the choke parts if you can find them, and convert your carb to the proper mechanism. Then you can buy a common round big six air cleaner and just drop it on the carb and be done with it. Measure from the middle of your carb inlet to the sidewall of your doghouse to see if there's enough room first though. Looking at your pics I think there is. Or maybe just buy a different carb too, one made for a 200 with the manual choke option. Lots of round air cleaners around to fit that. So, sorry if I've muddied the waters here, just when you're looking for some clarity and a clear path to the finish line. But like I said, I don't really know what I'm talking about...
So, as I see it you have a few different options here. Buy an expensive offset air cleaner and do the mods you will need to make it fit. Or buy a cheap junk YF with the real manual choke on it, or just the choke parts if you can find them, and convert your carb to the proper mechanism. Then you can buy a common round big six air cleaner and just drop it on the carb and be done with it. Measure from the middle of your carb inlet to the sidewall of your doghouse to see if there's enough room first though. Looking at your pics I think there is. Or maybe just buy a different carb too, one made for a 200 with the manual choke option. Lots of round air cleaners around to fit that. So, sorry if I've muddied the waters here, just when you're looking for some clarity and a clear path to the finish line. But like I said, I don't really know what I'm talking about...
CHCzecora
New member
@Frank, @TrickSix - thoughts on these air cleaners? (Newly listed, Option 1 - https://www.ebay.com/itm/146022574867) or (Option 2 https://www.ebay.com/itm/256287994920). I've got outstanding queries to both to verify the intake flange diameter. Dog House-wise, this seems like the best form factor to run with.
Otherwise, I'm in a time crunch now and got to get things wrapped by mid December. Timing chain test via distributor seems okay, got new plugs, and will try to squeeze in the leak down test... but not sure if I'll even be able to do anything with the results just now. I'm really getting excited for next year's off season to go big with engine optimization stuff.
Main focus now is electrical - I'll be doing tests on the current alternator, but I'm pretty sure I'm going to need to a new one. I love the one-wire advice, but with all the electrical on board (lots of lights, cameras, etc.) I am wondering what the cons of a super high amp one would be - I see 200-240 options out there. Total estimated load with all the electrical doohickies onboard is ~120A.
I'm planning on getting a pusher fan out front, unless y'all call me off, but the research I'm doing all points to the need for it.
Cold Starts: I'd love anyone's advice here, but I'm convinced that a block heater will help smooth things out quite a bit. At basecamp (parking lot) I can bring a small generator and get about an hour of juice to power things externally. Up top at the cabin, I've got a consistent AC source.
I've considered all kinds of set ups:
Otherwise, I'm in a time crunch now and got to get things wrapped by mid December. Timing chain test via distributor seems okay, got new plugs, and will try to squeeze in the leak down test... but not sure if I'll even be able to do anything with the results just now. I'm really getting excited for next year's off season to go big with engine optimization stuff.
Main focus now is electrical - I'll be doing tests on the current alternator, but I'm pretty sure I'm going to need to a new one. I love the one-wire advice, but with all the electrical on board (lots of lights, cameras, etc.) I am wondering what the cons of a super high amp one would be - I see 200-240 options out there. Total estimated load with all the electrical doohickies onboard is ~120A.
I'm planning on getting a pusher fan out front, unless y'all call me off, but the research I'm doing all points to the need for it.
Cold Starts: I'd love anyone's advice here, but I'm convinced that a block heater will help smooth things out quite a bit. At basecamp (parking lot) I can bring a small generator and get about an hour of juice to power things externally. Up top at the cabin, I've got a consistent AC source.
I've considered all kinds of set ups:
- Inline thermostatic heater (moderately expensive)
- Inline pump heater (expensive)
- Freeze Plug (cheap)
- Oil Pan Silicone Heater Pad (cheap)
- Combo Freeze Plug + Heater
As to an alternator, I ran into a similar problem, so I got a bosch unit for $20 that was originally from a rangerover, it is rated at 120a. I had to renew brushes and regulator and the slip rings. The big advantage is that it will hold everything at AT IDLE, so it has an output of around 60a at idle, this is to me most important. I dont like the "one wire" thing, how do they exite? One other thing, a single vee belt is limited to around 60a, so you may need two belts to get the full output or go to a ploy vee belt. 1 more thing, dont forget 120a is quite a bit and you will need some heavy cables for that on positive and negative side. A voltmeter is very useful to follow what is going on with the system. My twopenith worth!
X2 ^^
The first air filter housing has a big advantage- it comes with the factory hot air stove! Those are rare, and worth it. The metal housing bolts to the manifold and hugs it, to warm the air going to the carb. Warm air intake is always beneficial, especially in your environment. Getting that complete system is recommended. Mine is painted black in the pic. The two vertical 1/4" nuts that hold it in place can be seen (rusty). This is the factory-original set up.
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One more thing - this filter design requires a bracket to help hold it, it's necessary. It bolts to the driver's side of the housing down to the head. I don't have a closer blow up pic, but you can see it in this one. It won't be hard to fabricate if it isn't included, it needs to be there to support the housing.
X2 on the support bracket. without it the weight of the air cleaner wears the threads out in the bowl of the carburetor.
TrickSix
Well-known member
Probably so. But if I may reiterate a point from my post #68 that wasn't addressed in the last couple posts, you are putting an air cleaner from a 300 on a 200. The support bracket will need to be custom, though that shouldn't be a very complicated job. Making the warm air plenum from a 300 exhaust manifold fit the exhaust manifold from a 200 might not be so easy. But I guess we don't do this stuff because it's easy...
CHCzecora
New member
@aussie7mains @TrickSix @Frank - thanks for the advice, the air cleaner (Option 1 - https://www.ebay.com/itm/146022574867) is purchased and on its way! I feel confident in fabbing a support bracket.
@TrickSix - Seller responded with "Flange open is approx 2 11/16 inside. Approx 3 on outside lip." So I think we are on target for Carter YF's 2 5/8" ...I hope.
@TrickSix - Seller responded with "Flange open is approx 2 11/16 inside. Approx 3 on outside lip." So I think we are on target for Carter YF's 2 5/8" ...I hope.
AW SMACK! I totally forgot that he's got the 200. My bad.
The housing will fit the carb neck if you've got the "big" YF. You may have to tinker around to get the hot air stove around the manifold/exhaust pipe on the 200. When I changed the engine in the truck above I used different manifolds, the stove would not fit in it's stock shape. It bends (with heat), cuts and welds easy. The "new" gray stove below is made up of the original with some shade-tree-mechanic mods to fit it. It can be done. That stove is the only part from the original engine that got reused, lol. The warmed air is worth the effort when it's cold out.
The deal with warming the incoming air is, the air/fuel mix just below the throttle plate is 36* colder than it was as it entered the carb, due to the evaporation of the gas into vapor, and the vacuum. Where I live it's rarely below 40*, but it's rarely under 90% humidity at daybreak. The reason for the heat is to prevent carburetor icing. The stove works, without it the carb ices up nearly daily for several months of the year. (Ice can form at any temp below 65*, and is the worst between 48*-53*). Your environment is nearly opposite (and much nicer to live in!) so icing is not a frequent threat, it becomes a matter of having enough latent heat in the air to vaporize the gas. The stock manifolds do a good job of transferring heat into the intake, assisting good vaporization of the fuel. If I had to choose between warmed incoming air or a block heater, the block heater would get the nod in a dry high-mountain environment.
CHCzecora
New member
Crunch time and all the parts are coming in - definitely breaking the Christmas budget already. Here is what I've got done and queued up:
- Drained and pulled the radiator.
- Installed engine block heaters: Silicone pad for the oil pan underneath, Freeze Plug in the central spot up top. In all, 1500W of power coming in hot.
- Mounted a new 14" pusher radiator fan up front (combo'd with the existing 16" puller)
- Air Cleaner: the ebay find sure cleaned up purdy! At this point I'm not sure if I can get to all the stove stuff and will run with just the snorkel open (unless y'all urge me otherwise).
- New Alternator: I got suckered into this 240A beaut... not the one-wire many of you urged me towards (shrug/sorry), but going to run with it.
- Combo water pump and fan controller - Davies,Craig setup
- Plan here is to be able to run the electric pump (with a trickle charger) and the freeze plug heater on AC to tackle the tricky cold starts. I also like the concept of ditching the parasitic HP draw (they say it is about 15HP).
- I'd love y'alls advice/opinions on pulling out the mechanical water pump as recommended by Davies Craig.
- A whole bunch of new gauges and switches for a complete reset of the dashboard instrument cluster.
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