The GreenMachine runs!

[73GreenMachine]

Finally after an eight month ordeal, I finally got the engine running. I have spent all week mucking around trying to get it to turn over and I flattened about six batteries in the process. I have been struggling with electrical problems all week.After a few adjustments to timing, plugs and another coil, the engine took its first few breaths of life. Although this is a step in the right direction, I'm not out of the woods yet.

Problem:1 My oil light is still on. This really worries me because the engine is noisy and I occasionally hear metal noises. There is plenty of oil and the oil pump got primed, so I can't see why I have a problem.

Problem:2 The engine stops running by itself after about a minute. I am thinking this may be fuel related (ie float bowl running out of fuel.) The revs slowly drop off, it runs rough and then dies.

By the way, I am holding the engine at about 2000rpm. I havent let it idle as an attempt to run in the camshaft and the motor. It has been run and shut down several times now. The engine rotates much more easily now. I can turn it with a spanner, so it hasn't seized.

Any ideas on what I can do?

 

[xdee]

I hate to say it but if you've flattened six batteries trying to get it to start, then no amount of holding 2000 revs is going to save your cam now. I hope I've misread what you have done, and your cam is ok but.....
Oil light staying on may be a faulty switch, try another one, or better still, use a master guage which will give you an accurate pressure reading.

 

[P100 Ute]

towing is a good way to break in a cam.. with a small load then a bigger load.. and fluctuate.
and giving it some herbs.. but not thrashing it.. just to give the cam different rev ranges and u do this for about 1000 km and that should break in a new cam pretty well.

letting the motor sit on 2000rpm is not..

if u look on google for: "Cam Breaking in tips" theyre is a lot of pages with several ideas to break in a new cam

 

[73GreenMachine]

With the 2000rpm thing that was just me reading off the Crow cams sheet. I think to free it up properly itll need a bit of a drive, its getting better though. A question, if the oil light was actually working and I didnt have oil pressure, wouldnt have my motor seized by now? By the way, I primed my oil pump with grease and motor honey. I was told that it would work. Today I heard horrible metal noises, but only at really low rpm( like while cranking). I was scared the motor was seizing. The motor still turned ok with a spanner(much better than before running). I havent started it again since.

Just to clear something up, the reason I flattened six batteries was because the motor was tight and there were other ignition issues I hadn't sorted out yet. With a fully charged battery, I could have got the motor started(but only just). I had enough cranking speed to start it.

I have been told that the metal noise may be the rings scraping the bore(the rings were really tight in the bore). When I pulled the motor apart for the rebuild, the rings were still tight in the bore(although the motor turned over easy enough).

Since this is my first rebuild(I'm 17), I was sorta expecting it not to go smoothly. Things will be alright as long as I dont seize the motor.

So yeah, any suggestions of where to go from here?

 

[addo]

The oil light will vary in efficaciousness. As XD said, it may be the wrong sender... You did fit the oil pump drive shaft, right?

If the rings are that tight in the bores to make audible metal noises, I think the motor would have seized once it stopped. What end gap are they at? What rings and slugs did you put in?

A metal/metal noise can sometimes be the crank or rods biffing the sump very slightly. How does the oil look in bright light with a magnifier?

What about the valve stem tips and the rocker arm faces? Everything as intended and freshly oiled? Sure the metallic noises aren't transmission related?

Finally - you're 17. Should be out chasing a good time rather than hanging around with crusties twice your age.

 

[xdee]

two and a half

 

[73GreenMachine]

I just want my mates to drool over my car and for me to know that no matter how much money they have, they can't have it. Hehehe. Selfish, yeah but man does it feel good.

Anyway... oil pump drive shaft???? My oil pump came fully assembled from Melling in the USA. Its a M250. Doesn't the oil pump drive off the bottom of the dizzy, which is driven off the camshaft? Or have I left something out?

I think the oil light is faulty cos I remember having it on before I (was an idiot and) pulled the engine out. The engine ran fine. I think it just needs replacing.

I pulled off the rocker cover today and pulled out the sparkplugs etc to have a look at the engine. I squirted some oil in the tops of the cylinders and cranked it over. The metal squeaking noise was there and was happening at regular intervals. I'm pretty sure that its the no. 2 cylinder rings. The oil eventually got into the rings and the noise went away completely. The engine rotated easily. Phew!!!

I have been talking to a couple of people and I think I've worked out why the engine was running so rough. I think because of me setting the carby up too rich(the plugs were black and they WERE brand new). This meant that I had to have the ignition advanced ridiculously (20 degrees plus)to keep the engine running. I'm betting that this is the cause of the engine noise because it was probably pinging. Also, the unburned petrol was still in the cylinder and was firing back through the inlet manifold and the carby. It explains the small popping noise coming from the carby(it happened on each stroke). Thats why the motor ran so rough. I've changed the main jet back to a smaller size. I also played with the fuel cutoff in the carby and set it up so that the float bowl fills up more quickly.

By the way, I like the idea of towing to break in the cam, thanks for the suggestion.

Hopefully tomorrow I can try to start the engine again, with some better results.

 

[addo]

There is a 5/16" (8mm) A/F hex shaft that connects the dizzy to the oil pump. Usually, it stays in the pump and the dizzy comes out "clean".

Please tell me you didn't leave this out.

 

[DYNOED250]

Towing to bed rings in yes.. to break a cam in ..??? what the... The cam is bed in in the first 5-10 mins of the engine running... No amount of load or anything has an effect on the cam, only revs..

Please tell me u didnt leave the oil pump drive out... If the dissy was EASY to put in chances are u left it out

 

[73GreenMachine]

The problem? Cough...oil pump driveshaft...cough. I wont be living this one down for a while yet.

The good news is that I havent broken anything. The camshaft and crank are fine. The top end is alive aswell. Theres heaps of oil coming out now and it rotates really well. It should start fine off a battery now. Its quietened right down and it idles smoothly. I am one lucky person.
The rocker arm needed readjustment because the lifters had pumped up. I needed to slacken them off about a turn and a half to get the valves operating properly. At one point they were all open together and I was getting huge flames out the carby. Now thats all fixed, the carby is running the right jet and not running out of fuel anymore. The advance is back to normal.
I just need to put the rocker cover back on and tidy up a couple of things and then I can take it for a drive. By the way, the exhaust sounds real sweet.

Finally, thanks heaps for your help...again

 

[addo]

I'm not quite sure what to say...

I would be checking those bearings pronto. You grew up on Brand H, didn't you? Separate drive for oil pump and dizzy.

 

[wagon]

I have heard of crossflows and the like having no oilpump drive and siezing solid - but coming good and working well after cooling down!

 

[xt falcon]

don't feel bad about it i am sure it happens to other people. when i changed from a pre x-flow to the x-flow. i was on the way to get my mod plate and gave it a bit then the oil light came on and pressure gauge went to zero so i pulled over shut down put a heap of oil in it and drove the rest of the way 1km with no pressure. anyway it turned out to be that i had put the pre x-flow shaft in insted (shorter). bearings checked out to be perfect. so to finally get to the point i think your motor will be fine and these things happen.

 

[73GreenMachine]

I don't even remember pulling out the shaft, let alone putting it back in. I guess thats what happens when its 7 months between pulling the motor apart and putting it back together. It must have got lost on my bench of bits. And yes I checked, I do have six pistons! It seems so far that I may have got away with it. There are no ugly noises and the motor never underwent any load without oil. It didn't see more than 2000rpm. It ran for about 2 minutes before it used to slow down and die. I'm lucky I didn't end up starting the motor by running the car down a hill. And who would ever suggest I would work on Brand H, let alone get near one lol We have six cars and four of them are Fords. My dad owned one brand H and it was written off within the first 2 weeks. Thats about as far as my history goes with them.

The car moved for the first time under its own power yesterday for the first time in 9 months. Now all my problems lie with carby tuning and ignition advance. I am going to have another play with the tuning tonight. Then I might be able to take it for a real drive.

Can anybody point me in the right direction in regards for baseline jetting to tune my Weber from? Its a 34ADM off an XF Falcon. One question, there is this barb in the side of the carby thats yellow.It appears to be part of a jet. I'm thinking its the main idle jet. Anyway, is there a pipe that conncets to it that is supposed to go to manifold vacuum? You can have a look at the carby on my posts in the eye candy section under engine bays.

 

[DYNOED250]

from memory the jets are 135/140's and 210/220's with 180 air corection jets if im right.... Most common problem is the idle pin getting stuck and cuting of idle fuel flow

 

[73GreenMachine]

Thanks for the jet numbers. I've had a play with the carby, and things are getting better real quick. I now have a good idle and a great response on the primary barrel. When I open the secondary, the engine backfires through the carby. I'm assuming this is lean.
About that yellow barb on the side of the car, it does go to manifold vacuum. As vacuum increases, it pulls a pin inside the jet, allowing more fuel into the carby. Smooths the transition from idle to primary jet out heaps.


At the moment, I'm running 180 main jet, 250 secondary jet, 180 primary air and 170 secondary air. It runs stoic on the primary barrel cos there is water coming out the exhaust pipe and no smoke when I rev it. I need to sort out the second barrel. Would increasing the idle fuel flow to the secondary help( there looks like a little jet for it in the side of the carby)?

I'm also wondering wether my noisy tappets are the cause for the secondary barrel misfire because of bad valve timing.

I can move the car around now which is cool. There are 2 black lines in the driveway because of it. 8) I wasnt even trying. I am going to try adjusting the tappets and see wether that corrects the problem, if not then a larger secondary jet.

 

[73GreenMachine]

I got some seatbelts and passenger seat back in today. Took it for a little drive up the street. It was smooth, but it had no power. I'm hoping it is just carby tuning. Do I need to get the advance curve readjusted? Can anyone tell me the jets they are running in, say a mildly worked 250, just so I've got somewhere to start from? The car just needs a general tidy up and rego, then I can start driving it!

 

[73GreenMachine]

Just to let you know, I made a couple of changes to the engine with very good results. I put the jets in the carby to factory plus one size, except for the secondary, which is factory. The sparkplugs came out a tan colour after driving(I've got rego now ), so the carby was in the ballpark. The problem lay with my distributer. I went to the wreckers and got a 200ci distributer from an XF falcon, cleaned it up and put it in. BIG difference. It now accelerates really well, it feels like a strong motor. 150-160hp in a Cortina with a four speed is HEAPS of fun. Further tuning and running in of the motor will give more power, but at least now it feels like it has been modified. Third and fourth gear chirpys are quite entertaining. Thanks again for everybodys help. I should have some dyno results in about a month or two.

 

[addo]

Watch that dizzy! Remember the gear mismatch to aftermarket cams, and also the shaft size differences. I think Steve got one like I have, re-shafted and recurved to fit nicely.

 

[TCSTEVE]

Watch that dizzy! Remember the gear mismatch to aftermarket cams, and also the shaft size differences. I think Steve got one like I have, re-shafted and recurved to fit nicely.

yeah but mines still MIA. :roll: But i highy recommend anyway as i sent off a wreckers quality XE dizzy and got back a beautiful piece of machinery which is going to be the masterpiece of my motor.
Once the heads ported its time to put it all back together.
My machinest said bout $600 for full porting on my 2V and thats to suit big valves, race spec. Does this sound right? cause im thinking of leaving the valves that are in it and just cleaning up the ports as its going back in my wagon as a daily and those fuel prices, well i tell ya . Thanks people