What to do:-V6 stroker or inliner

[xctasy]

I've got a V6 Cortina. I'd apreciate some help. (You may have seen this in the $2000 to spend question....I stu**ed up, and put it in the wrong place!)

Some Background

New Zealand Cortinas had optional German V6'S from 1980 to 1984. They came only with the French C3 auto, and had no anti pollution equipment, and could only do 17.7 second quarters, 180 km/h. There were no S-pack options with the 14 inch Alloys and better suspension your Aussie six cyliners TF's had. No ventilated front discs, either.

Mines got a single small IHI turbo, and blows through a stock LPG Impco CA 300 carb. The only problem is the engines done 200,000 km, had 19 owners, and is needing a rebuild. The throttle body is a 2 barrel synchronised Solex, a bit like the awfull Opel 1900 carb. It's dedicated, runs no petrol at all. LPG adaptor is off an XF Falcon 4.1 carby.

The one redeeming factor to the 2.3 litre Cologne V6 is the light weight... its only 158 kg for the engine, and 1130 kg's all up. So it doesn't plough at the limit. With 6 pounds of boost, and the stock 9.2:1 compression, theres only about 105 kW at the flywheel, and it only had 84 kw and 183 Nm form the factory. So perhaps its got the same torque as a 3.3 TE6, and the same power as a good stock 4.1. It now runs the American C4 2.8 Mustang gearbox, and the stock 3.45:1 diff gears. Underneath, chassis wise, its a pre 1972 TC Cortina with no good Falcon gear in it at all. Power steering and negative camber are the only advances Ford made over the 14 years they were assembled here.

I've got relatives in England, and I've asked then to bring back some 5 stud Ford Granada ventilated front discs, and P76 style Austin Princess calipers to fix the awful brakes. One thing I'm looking at, rather than drilling and filling the stock rear end, is fitting a Hilux 4.55:1 LSD and five stud wheels to it. The V6 Explorers ran a Belgium built 5/4-speed auto and the same bell housing patern as my V6, as both engines come from the same engine plant.

I could just drop in an Aussie TE diff, but I want some standout lower gears, and I've never seen a 4.5:1 diff for them. Lowest was 4.11:1. The Explorer gearbox has a huge overdrive, and the little six revs to over 7000 rpm. Its onlt got a 2.36 inch (60mm) stroke, and piston speed is only 2750 feet per second at these revs, so forged pistons are really an over kill.

I have the following plan, and I'd like you guys to comment:-

Plan 1:-Throw in an Explorer 84.3 mm stroke crank, 133.3 mm long Holden XT5 rods, and 30 mm deep (deck to wrist pin) Falcon 5.4 V8 Duratech 220 pistons. They will fit in the block, are only 20 thou or so bigger and take the capacity out to almost 3.3 litres. Then apply a bigger turbo, and more boost.

Plan 2:- Would this be better than just grabbing an early seven bearing 200 XR engine, and adapting the Ohv Alloy head on it, and turboing that ?. I've done some rough calc's, and think the 200 engine, which is 42.2 mm shorter, and likely to be 165 kg's all up, is over 50 kgs lighter than the 4.1 alloy head engine if it has the alloy head fitted.

What would you guys do? Would appreciate your comments.

 

[Anonymous]

What I'd do:

Ditch the V6. Its a european designed six, good for a Capri, but not much else thats heavier. Install a 250 crossflow, locate an EFI Intake, and decide from there how to diffuse the gas. Put in a C4 either from a Falcon or a 2V Cortina. If you still want turbo, put in a VL Turbo T03. That'll give you a totally impressive midrange, with about 150kW all up, with boost from around 1200rpm. CR can remain stock, it'll take stock boost (9lbs).

Then go out and hunt down a rear end from a 4 cyly Aussie Cortina. I think they've got the Borg-Warner 78 Series diff in it?? If they do, you'll get a 3.73:1 ratio, with a pinion set that'll take all the torque you can throw at it.. If you dont like the ratio, then perhaps you can find a 4.11:1 diff out of an R31 aussie Pintara, or aussie R31 Skyline Silhouette. They were also equipped with the 78 series rear end, in 4 pinion LSD configurations too.

 

[stanger53]

I am not familiar with the Aussie engines but know a little about the German V6 engines.
Here is America thes engines never caught on. There were some hot rod pieces made for them, even turbo kits, but their reliability wasn't good. When I worked at the Ford dealer we had a lot of them come in because the phenolic cam timing gear broke down. The engines had aluminum heads and it was common for them to crack. It was almost impossible to find a rebuildable head because of the cracking problem, and this was in 1980.
If this is the same engine you are working with, I would pay close attention to these areas. These engines didn't hold up well here in the States. I would much rather have one of your bulletproof CrossFlows.

 

[xctasy]

Thanks stanger53!

The heads we had on ours were silly little twin port jobs like the 2600 US Capri. On our high lead gas there was no record of cracking, but the exhast manifolds on early ones did. The American export engines from 1975 on had the three branch per side exhast system. The 2.3 timing gears are superseded..I cant get TRW steel/aluminum gears anymore (they are 2600 spec too). Your US engineers told the Germans to put a proper timing chain in, which they did by 1986. The 2900 cc ones have the cam going in the other direction because of that mod. Apparently early Bronco II and Mustang II's sheared timming gears in the cold, exactly as you say. Water pumps were not very good, either.


I've been warming to a inliner for some time. Even the German SOHC EFI Explorer 4.0 V6 is heavier than the 4.1 carby!

Disco, after driving a TE Cortina 4.1, I got to say they are rapid units. But they are much better sorted than my little beast. You Aussies changed everything to give the old nag some strength...the TE IFS was totally new, the discs were vented, the steering rack was different, the firewall was deeper, the bonnet and cowl had 12.5 mm extra height to cover the tall 200/250 block, the BW78 had pinned shockies, the trans tunnels and firewalls were rebated to suit. The TC was a lemon in comparison..the front springs sagged and the aftermarket did a roring trade in upgrades that helped the thing turn in.

However TC parts to swap Pommy Cortina over to a six are easy to get over here, and I think I'm looking at a simple combined stitch and fillet welded fire wall section, cut away radiator support panel and a TC 6 crossmember with an aftermarket camber kit. Post 1972 diffs are easy to get here too. Mine runs the Capri crown wheel and pinion gears in a Type B Ford diff. They aren't very strong, so it will get the flick. And if I'm not reving 7 grand, I won't need the Hillux diff. I have a set of 3.7:1 gears and a TE 4 BW 78 under the house.

But the thing that really bothers me isn't these swaps. Its the fact that even the 4.1 Cross Flow Alloy head engine is 218 kgs in carby form. That's an extra 60 kgs over the nose of a suspension system that was a self lowering disaster in 1972. Even after throwing in some nolathane bushes and lowering it, surely the thing will be an understeering pig. We got corners over here! The drive reports on even the 23 kg lighter alloy headed S pack Cortina TF sixes with sports suspension and the better front ends were not flattering at all.

I'm now thinking a fibreglass flip front might save me more than 60 kgs, and allow me to go 4.1 with no handling or weight distribution ills. I think I could spend 1000 bucks on getting that made up, and still end up with a 1130 kg car.

That's way I was originally looking at the 200 XR block. There is a weight saving from having a 198 mm tall block (that's shallower than the four cylinder 2.0 OHC!) verses the 240.5 mm tall 250 block. If you do the math, the 42.5 mm height of extra cast iron is equal to about 42 kg in extra rod length, crank and other stuff. I banked on it coming in under 176 kg installed, only 18 kgs over the little V6. Jack Collins did a weld up job of his short 200 block just to clear the pushrods, and spent six blocks and an estimated $US 1000 doing it.

I felt better doweling a high grade steel plate on the block, about 7.5 mm, like what Merv Waggot used to do with the Grey engine 2.9 litre stroker DOHC Holdens in the late 1950's. Then screwing in twelve canted 18 mm diameter rods with 1.5 mm wall thickness to allow room for the pushrods to a Cross flow head. That was what I was thinking before. Now I'm sure a 4.1 with a fibre glass front is the best option! And I'm also thinking perhaps the 228 cube de-stroker 4.1 I've been working on is a better candidate for my Cortina, than my Falcon. The turbo in my Cortina is too small for my a 4.1, so a Turbo in-line 6 Cortina isn't in my budget because of my earlier outlay on my crank ($300 plus), the US AOD4 trans ($350 bucks) and forged pistons ($1000 plus a lot of addtional beer to my machinist). And the AOD won't fit cause its too big for my Pommy 'Tina

Wish I'd found this forum sooner, I'd have saved me a lot of money!

 

[Anonymous]

i would go with the 250 crossflow if you can get the efi version even better

 

[Anonymous]

That was going to be my other suggestion; Locate a 4.0 Exploder motor!

Over here, Falcons are the weapon of choice for doing the twisties (I live in the hills area of Perth). 4.1 Corties are considered Burnout and D-R-I-F-T cars, and as such, 4.1 litre rear ends are hard to find up here. Wierd, cos the 2.0 rears are a better ratio!

Still, VL Turbos are cheap to scrounge in good nick; $200-$300.. Whack one of them in and you'll have a torque curve that will Hurt a lot of things, specially in a Fibreglass Front Corty, with optional wheelie bar!

 

[xctasy]

LOL! Thanks Disco'

Aussie TE Cortina Ghia 4's, complete with ADR 27A anti-emissions gear were the most common import Cortina here. 8/10 are fours. Sixes in TF and TE are rare. I've seen lots of TC sixes.

Hey, I'm sorting out those photos to post on the 221 crank. No, they aren't my crank, its just the SM article version. Can you tell me how to you go about hosting them on your ICP?

I'll send the photos to the adminstrator in the meantime. Should be able to be posted in a day or two, then I'll post them myself.

I'm very very coy about sending or getting attachements now. My misses inadvertantly did that BAD THING, which resulted in me sending my e-mail address list a the Trojan virus late last year!.
My wife did the unthinkable and opened an .exe file! We spent $NZ 172 bucks getting my Windows XP wiped and reset. I was as popular as a Pork Pie at a Jewish wedding! So I've had to rescan some of the items, but my CD rom was archived away from the computer. I don't understand exactly how much free web space Paradise give me, but if its anything like there ant-virus protection, there'll be none

What I have is the following:-

Falcon_221_Forged_Steel_Crank_#101

Falcon_221_Forged_Steel_Crank

As well as this, I've got a Stratosphere Grey TC Cortina Triple Weber 250 from an Aussie Street Roder Mag to post here soon.

I love Cortinas. There a crap car, but they sure are cheep to work on!

 

[Maverick250]

I guess I'll stick my nose in here. I've got a 2.8 V6 in my '83 Ranger. (4 spd, 4wd) Truly, it is probably no better than the I4 (2.3L?) that was the standard engine that year, as far as output or reliability. I just reworked the top end of mine last summer. I didn't do a rebuild--- even after 130000, the rings and valves were fine. Stock, with the TFI computer- controlled carb, it was a POS. Leaked oil, sucked gas like a V8. What I did was replace the top end gaskets and replaced the manifold with one from a '74 Mustang II. I plugged the EGR ports in the head with beercan aluminum and epoxy. I replaced the rubber valve stem seals-- they are the cause of this engine's problems with smoking. The M II intake didn't have egr ports anyway. Then I cut out the computer wiring and vacuum lines and converted to a Duraspark II ignition. I fabricated a homemade carb spacer out of 3/4" aluminum and 1/2" phenolic and fitted a Holley/Weber 5200. The carb fit perfectly, but I had to bend the bracket for the throttle cable. Results: Rock-solid reliable, no leaks, no smoke, 17-19 MPG City (I haven't really took it out on the road for extended driving enough to know the HWY MPG.) AND, it still passes emissions, likely due to the somewhat small progressive carb. If you're interested in these engines, try http://www.therangerstation.com and go to the 2.8L Forum. My understanding was that the 2.9L had the problem with cracking heads, after they went to fuel injection. You can also get a bit more cheap power by replacing the exhaust manifolds--- '86 Aerostar vans with the 2.8L V6 came with short pipe headers that fit. Junkyard price here is about $30 US, if you can find the van.

 

[yellowstang]

xecute,

if you can get the efi crossflow in its entirety do that. that i think is the simplest.

putting a crossflow head on a 200 or even a 250 is a lot if work. the head doesnt match the block.

efi is better if its available and not to pricey. but retrofitting efi is way expensive.

if you cant do that, then do the 200 block(shorter, lighter) with the oz 2v head( no mods just bolt on) fits on top with the turbo running 6lbs. open the chambers to about 65cc and get the compression lower to get more out of the turbo.

the only simple bolt in is the efi crossflow. everything else is a project and will require time. most of which we all dont have a lot of.

for example, i am realizing that it would be easier to buy an oil pan with the baffling in it, rather than attempting to make my own. my time and expertise could be spent elsewhere for more fruitful gains. yes i could make a baffle if no one ever made one. i guess what i am trying to say is sometimes if what your making from scratch already exists, it makes more sense not to waste the time to make it your self.

Pete

 

[xctasy]

Thanks!

Yeah, theres quite a bit of cutting to get the 250 cross flow in, whereas the 200 or even 221 is fairly simple. I love that 2V idea. If I run a smaller brake booster for my right hooker Cortina, a 4-bbl will just fit. But its already on LPG, and the 188 mm Impco CA 300 carb (7.4 inches without the air cleaner) would hit the booster. See what a compulsive theorist I am?

Every thing I do is a P-R-O-J-E-C-T


nil illegitimo carborundum

 

[addo]

Run a VH-40 on the fronts only. Can you say Burnout? Actually, it's all in the setup...

 

[Anonymous]

xecute; usually one has to send an e-mail to your ISP's support, so that they enable the webspace on your account, and more importantly, allow your account's public_html directory to be viewed from the web. Thats where you upload your files to, from your system's harddrive to the web server. CuteFTP is a good tool to use for that, your ISP should have an FAQ page with screenshots on it, describing how to setup the software to upload files..