200 stroker? Maybe.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Anonymous
  • Start date Start date
A

Anonymous

Guest
Is it possible to get a little extra stroke out of the stock 200 crank? I know with a SBC you can grid the crank down to a small rod journal size which ground at an offset give you an extra .110 stroke lengh. Can somebody school me on the journal sizes of a 200? Rod lengh and all that good stuff? Thanks.
 
Yes. There is a fairly easy way.

Get a 125 thou head gasket, and track down some 5.25" Holden 2850/3300 XT5, 1900 1X Toyota Corona, 1900 Holden Sunbird/Commodore 4 rods. These have a 1.9" pin diameter, and much smaller, but still bulletproof set of journals. The rod bolts and general sizing of this GM peice allows it to swing 7000 rpm without breakage. Next step is to get some custom Mahle, Cima, Wiseco ultra low deck 2 ring forged pistons. These cannot normally be run unless you use an 18R Toyota air pump to take the blowby out of the block. The combo uses a 1 inch deck piston, with a lightweight 0.866" wrist pin. Under piston oiling is not required unless its supercharged or turboed, the existing splash lubrication is fine.

This doesn't give you much, just a 7% capcity boost of a piddly 14 cubes. Stroke is 3.35". It is not cost effective, and not worth the effort.

An Argie or Aussie 221 crank might be presuaded to fit with savage block, rod ,cam and crank mods, but then the rod ratio will be pretty bad, even with a 1.163 ACL " piston and the 5.00 Pinto 2000 or 1" custom piston with 5.14" 221 rod.

I'd say it may be possible to do, but from exprience from the Holden guys show that a Ford crank requires lots of grinding to make space. The 200 cam almost hits the 3.126" 200 crank. I can't see a 221 from a 200 block being reliable at all.
 
What's the piston below deck hight measurement? I can't seem to find anything on the net. I don't think Ford ever zero decked any of there motors. Just an idea of away to make up the 10 or 15 thousandths of down volume. Most piston manufactors will reduce the compression high as the bore increase to keep the same compression ratio for rebulids. Thus leaving the piston setting farther down the hole at TDC.
 
Wouldn't it be cheaper to just offset grind the crank to bring the piston up in the cylinder and therefor stroke it a little. Would there be enough clearance for the con rods at the cam. If I remember previous posts on the subject, thye clearance problem is really the con rods at the cam. If not, let us know.
 
Thats what I was gettign at. Offesting the grind on the crank to make up the difference in the deck height was what I was thinking about. The only problem would be the smaller bearing juornal and finding the right rod or bearings to fill it. Thanks
 
You'd be cheaper off, better placed importing a 221 shortblock and oil pan. Maybe Inliner can sort these out?
 
What I was getting at is using original rods and offset grinding it to the maximum undersize available. It would not be a lot but lets say you went from .010 under to .030 under. That would raise the piston .020 there by increasing compression and also give you .040 more stroke. It couldn't be that expensive considering all off the shelf parts. The grinding would be the exspensive part. The question I had was how much clearance is there between the rotating assembly and the rest of the engine to do this with.
 
I think it's about a match stem thickness, at the minimum. That's with the cam relief included.
 
So I take it that 30 under is the max that can be grounded off a 200 crank. Or is that the largest bearing that is availble for the rods?
 
10, 20 undersize bearings are most common.

If you take the best, clean stock 2.124" journal, and offset grind, you could change the stroke from 3.126 to 3.146 if you have a perfect machinist.

In practice, the rod throws can be indexed out by 10 thou for a start, so its doubtfull you'd ever move the piston up more than 10 thou by offset grinding.

Resizing the conrods, you could gain a 20 thou increase from 4.705 to 4.725, so there is 30 thou through both.

Most 200's have a piston which sits 30 to 50 thou below the deck with a stock 1.53" deck piston.

The aftermarket pistons sit lower, about 1.5" for a 30 thou oversize. Pistons like HSC 2.3 for the front drive Topaz compacts, or HSC 2.5 for the Taurus are the answer. 1.53 or 1.58 in stock sizes, less as you go 20, 30 or 40 thou oversize.
 
Thanks xtaxi. Those were the numbers I was looking for. Journal dia., rod lengh, and compression height.

Resizing the conrods, you could gain a 20 thou increase from 4.705 to 4.725, so there is 30 thou through both.

How can you increase the rod lengh by 20 thou by resizing it? Doesn't that require a coustom bearing on top of being 20 under? The rod journal is the same as a 289/302 I noticed. Is it the same bearing then?
 
I can't remember the blue-print width, but the 302 is narrower than the 144/170/188/200/221/250/2.3HSC/2.5HSC/3.2-3.9-4.0SOHC/4.0 DOHC family.

The 302 rod will fit, but only with the Aussie 1.163" ACL Hypereutectics and by reworking the crankshaft by rewelding to create a narrower shoulder.


Rod resizing, the other item I raised, is only possible when going down in bearing size. The rods distort is service, and the caps can be professionally resized if done right. The rod can vary a heck of a lot in centre to centre size. The blue print dimension has a huge tollerence.

I'm adamant that a nice steel or copper 125 thou gaskest and 5.2 " Lima 2300 OHC rods, and then the Aussie ACL pistons will work great. A 10 percent rod ratio change withe better pistons, rods and under piston oiling. You don't often get a cahnce to correct rod ratios without spending lots of money. This would be the perfect zero deck engine!
 
I see in your signature that you used 305 pistons in a 250. Could you run thruw the numbers for me on how it worked out? Whats the weight difference between a 200 and a 250? Thanks
 
On a US 250, I'd be worried that the 305 pistons would compromise the block rigidity. If you can verify the wall thickness is good, and that there isn't much core shift, you can proceed. I wasn't aware that ACL made short deck pistons at all when I did this in 2000. It's been a 1700 dollar dead end project for me, all in the vain attempt to get a great rod ratio for a supercharger I'd been planning.

I don't have any pickies of the forged pistons yet. Basically, the piston is a good swap if the block can cope with it. 56 thou is possibly too much for a US post 68 block to cope with. The Aussie blocks have more meet in them. One guy here has 80 thou over pistons in his 250.


The 228 has been a long time project of mine. Its done by welding the main bearing journals using a basic long run down hand weld process used for restoring crank pin journals when you can't source a crank. The 221 crank has a smaller 2.3" main bearing (not 2.4" like the US 250 and Aussie X-flows), smaller crank flange (3.3", not 3.62"), and a 2.75" bolt spacing on the flywheel, not 3". The 221 crank is in essence, a 200 crank with a 3.46" stroke, up 334 thou from the little US cousin.

The whole thing looked like an easy fit up, with a set of X-flow 200 rods (6.27" long), and a set of old 229/305 TRW forged pistons from a drag racing project. They used to be pretty common for Eccono racers, and there are a varierty of part numbers. The piston has about 12 cc of dish at 1.531" deck. When you mill it down to 1.45, there is no dish. Mine was shaved 50 thou off the top to 1.48", down to a 4 cc dish. The block register I worked on with the stock Aussie X-flow 250 block was assumed to be 9.48", but it is in fact 9.38", so I still have to run a thick gasket to get everything tightend up. The 56 thou over block hasn't been decked, as its pristine.

The pistons require the 200 X-flow rods to be reamed out 15 to 16 thou to fit the Chevy wrist pin. The Chevy rods are bulkier than the Ford ones, and there is plenty of space with the Ford rods on a Chevy piston. The slipper skirt has ample space to avoid any rod or cam clearance issues.

Currently, I have a nice big old porcelin bath with oil and the crank, rods and pistons and block in it. I trial fitted a new steel seventh bearing carrier. It is basically a 200 item, but with a 250 bolt spacing and bearing. It leaks kero when assembled, so I'm thinking I may have to make up a new spacer to bring the crank up to 3.62" so I can run the stock 250 seal. More expense!


The crank form the 221 is designed for this kind of 200 cube US block.

DSC02325.jpg


The pre 84 block has a flange like this when overlayed.

DSC02344.jpg


I'm totally undecided about the block. I'm considering sleaving the existing block, and flicking off the pistons. I think I should have used US 240 cube Big six 6.57" rods, which have the 0.912" wrist pin, and some ACL thin pistons, and weld up the crank flange 312 thou to 3.622". Then I'd use a thicker gasket to deal with a piston 80 thou above the block.

The other idea I've been looking at is having a variable displacement, variable head test engine. Log head, 2V, ME, or any alloy or cast iron x-flow can be trailed. One block adaptor, a range of bumpsticks, and I can dial in any combination. And any transmission or diff combo.

I may still use the 228 as a test mule for 200, 221, and 250 combinations. In summary, the Aussie 200 uses the US 250 block, so you can convert to any capacity from 188 (2.94" stroke) to 250 cubes (3.91" stroke), using the same block. A very powerfull testing tool.

With plenty of 188, 200, 221, and 250 cranks and 5.88, 6.06, 6.21 and 6.27" rods around, any combination of capacity can be made with just 8 hours of labour removing, refitting, and reinstalling the stock 1983 X-flow block. Running a control Chevy forged would allow me to run very close to detonation threashold, so I can find optimum tuning for any carb(s), cam(s), head combo and compression.

Big dreams for little people.
 
Back
Top